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Guest Recian

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Guest Recian

Well after fixing my stalling issue and replacing a window motor it was a nice morning so I decided to go for a nice long drive. Not long after leaving home the temp gauge went from 195 to 250 almost instantly so I checked it and the radiator and hoses were warm, about average for how long the car had been running so I assumed the sending unit was bad since after I got back in the car it was reading 118 which is where it stayed til the next thing happened.. Kept driving to verify the stalling problem was fixed with my a/c off and vents ON so if it gets hot i'll feel the heat off the heater core from the vents just in case. Got to my buddy's house and turned around and came back. About a 10 mile round trip. About 3 miles from home going across a bridge I heard it rattling and almost spark knocking echoing from the bridge railing and before i knew it i lost power and slowly coasted as I frantically tried to crank the car with no luck. I eventually rolled to a stop threw it in park waited a min or 2 and cranked it up, still rattling badly. I limped it home having to stop to crank it 2 more times and i coasted through my neighborhood. Got home and steam was pouring from the crank case vents, dipstick tube and oil cap. Popped the rad cap and found it bone dry. (but very clean! steam clean got rid of all the gunk in my engine) The overflow had coolant in it and I know i filled it up ran the engine and topped it off after replacing my intake gaskets. It had been running great since then with no issues til today. The engine was so hot i could see the heat just looking at it but the radiator was still warm/cool to touch. I think the thermostat or water pump went out but after having to limp home. Replaced the thermostat and topped off the coolant after letting it sit for about 2hours to cool to a tolerable temp and it seems to be doing better. Having no coolant makes me wonder where it's going unless it got so hot it boiled out, seeing as the car runs 40 degrees over the boiling point of water.. The car rarely runs below 220. computer is programmed to not turn fans on til 220. Seeing as the engine sees ok, may just need to change the now stinky oil I have to give serious props to the GM v6. Any import runs over 225 and you can kiss all the engine's bearings goodbye, much less 250+. I think that extreme heat took out my already weak ICM because there's no spark out of the #3 post now lol

Edited by Recian (see edit history)
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The overheating issue, with coolant disappearing, is consistent with a blown head gasket. Any water vapor coming out the tailpipe? On a hot day you might not see it but if you hold your hand near the outlet of the exhaust you might see the vapor condensing on your hand. A cold beer bottle would work even better. :D

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Well it went somewhere. As to the spark, the engine fires in pairs so you should lose 3 and 6 not just 3.

Good news is that the general used to routinely test engines by running up to 250F again and again, letting them hot soak, then seeing how easily they started.

I can think of several scenarios but the best thing to do is to run a compression check and see if any are low. A leakdown test is even better to find a blown head gasket but that takes abyy-nermal tools.

Either that or just start and if it runs smooth, change the oil (it breaks down fast when too hot) and drive but monitor the coolant level closely.

BTW what you describe is consistant with a stuck thermostat also - was the resovoir full ? - and my experience with new Stant Superstats is that the first time it is liable to go to 190-195 before it opens but once cycling it will lock at 180F. One of the things I like about the Susperstat is that they calim it opens fully in the first 2-3 degrees and that has been my experience.

ps if the engine is out of coolant, the coolant temp sensor may read high low or not at all, it relies on being immersed.

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Guest Richard D

If the radiator was not as hot as the coolant left in the system it could be head gaskets or a stuck thermostat amoung other things. I would pull the thermostat refill and try it that way for a test run. If it does not overheat put in a new one and hope the gaskets are ok.

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If the engine overheats, the radiator cap allows the pressure to exit via the overflow tube to the radiator overflow/resevoir.

Hence, under normal overheating conditions, the radiator overflow tank should be full of hot water.

However, it the radiator cap fails in a stuck shut position, the pressure must be released somewhere in the system. This could be a radiator or heater hose, head gasket, or several other places.

The problem my be as you said "filled the overflow tank .......after doing the intake gaskets"

If you did not take off the radiator cap and fill the radiator, filling the overflow does not fill the radiator.

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Guest Recian

after changing the intake gaskets i filled the system from the radiator and added extra to the over flow just in case of any bubbles. During the incident the radiator was empty, engine block was completely dry and overflow still had coolant in it. I replaced the thermostat (the right way) and topped it back off with coolant/water mix. 4 gallons later it was full and I ran it again and it stayed around 235-245 range driving near by. Pulled it back in the yard and it was around 235-240 range and if you rev to about 2000-2200 it will cool down to 230ish but it rarely goes under 225. Its hard to tell if water is coming out seeing as it's NC so it's over 90 degrees and over 90% humidity. My hand along with a cold beer condensates just walking out the front door. There's no smell or puffs of white smoke when it's running.. other than the smell of the very thinned out stinky oil that i now need to change. I didnt check #6 but it could be dead also since it's a pretty bad miss. Seeing as the car runs in the 240s im curious if the coolant mix is being boiled. A 50/50 mix will boil around 235 and this engine stays over that so I cant be sure it's not boiling the water and pushing the bubbles into the overflow or if the bubbles are combustion gasses escaping. Having a bad coil causing a misfire alon with NCs poor climate makes that diagnosis harder. I do know the water pump is original and has some crud on the right side of the pulley (while looking at it right side) which i believe is the weep hole. It's not fresh but being 22 years old i think i'll put a $35 water pump in it which is a easy job before i go pulling heads unless i absolutely have to. Knowing bubbles are going into the coolant overflow im praying it's just boiling due to extreme engine temps, poor coolant mixture and poor coolant flow so i dont have to put more money into this engine. Also, are there any other places that sell the 180 degree thermostats other than pep boys? anything i can do to get coolant flowing and stay cool will help. Even the guy who had it before me said it's not a warm weather car lol

Edited by Recian (see edit history)
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I've had a lot of 3800s - 6 (abby-surd) at moment and never had one that wanted to run hot if everything else was right (and we are now into the "100 days of summer" when it is over 90 every day).

Definately think the misfire is part of it - are you sure the right wires are going to the right plugs ? Is it running under 10 mpg ?

BTW when I do a water pump, I spend about 45 minutes wrenching and 90 cleaning surfaces.

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Guest Richard D

Can you feel the bottom of the radiator after the thermostat opens? I have a friend who installed a new aluminum rad in his 1966 289 Mustang with factory air. He put about 500 miles on it and it began to overheat, even though there was good coolant flow across the top of radiator. After a new water pump the shop pulled the 500 mile aluminum radiator and the bottom half was clogged with what looked like welding flux, gumy stuff. Flushed out cooling system installed new rad and all is well. The bottom half of radiator felt cool while the top was HOT. Crossflow type

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Check the bottom radiator hose to see if the wire winding inside is rusted out or missing allowing suction to collapse the hose preventing water flow. That can cause overheating when the RPMs are up and you are driving down the road. It rarely happens when sitting at idle.

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Guest Recian

ill definately check that hose ronnie because it seems to only overheat drivng not sitting in the yard. Even sitting in the yard if i rev it to about 2000 it'll cool down to around 225-230 range. The plugs wires are all in the right spots. Double and triple checked. The radiator is about 2 years old but you cant rule it out when i bought the car it had brown crud in the radiator.. 30k without an oil change and neglect will do that. That's why i posted how clean the inside of my radiator was after it got a steam clean from the overheating lol It wasnt (to my knowledge) losing the coolant until after I did those intake gaskets which i spent a LONG time cleaning and prepping the surfaces then torqued the intake to spec in the proper order. It was losing some oil out the backs of the gaskets and some water was going out the tailpipe but not this bad. I know there's a ignition lost miss because i can take off the #3 plug wire from the coil and not get shocked or hear a spark jump where you can do the same thing with #5 and feel it go through your hand and come out your foot while you hold the wire 6 inches from the coil lol I know misfires can make a car run hot but that's usually fuel lacking misfires not lack of spark misfires. Mpg is about 11.5 atm only because i havent driven it for long periods of time since i did the intake and battery was disconnected then. Not to mention until now it was smooth idling but when you started taking off (very ligh throttle) it would sputter til you gave it a little more gas so i've been kinda dogging it just to take off wich doesnt do good for your mpg. Padgett posted about the very light throttle sputter on his page about the delco upgrade so i think the ICM is my misfire/sputter fault.

Edited by Recian (see edit history)
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Guest Recian

so it wouldnt have an effect on trying to take off from a stop at light throttle? Also I just checked that lower radiator hose. It's soft. Has no spring inside or any remants of a rusty spring. Looks original so the spring may be that far gone. Could explain the little rusty colored rocks i found on the thermostat when i replaced it.

Edited by Recian (see edit history)
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so it wouldnt have an effect on trying to take off from a stop at light throttle? Also I just checked that lower radiator hose. It's soft. Has no spring inside or any remants of a rusty spring. Looks original so the spring may be that far gone. Could explain the little rusty colored rocks i found on the thermostat when i replaced it.
I just when out and checked my bottom hose to make sure mine was still good and hard. It actually feels like there are two steel springs inside the hose. One starts at where the hose connects to the water pump and extends to the first 90* bend in the hose, the second starts just past that 90* bend and extends down to where the 90* bend starts at the bottom. Both are solid feeling.

If you feel nothing at all in that hose something is wrong. It might not be causing your overheating problem but if it were my car I would replace it.

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Guest Recian

I intend to. The only issue is aftermarket stores dont sell them with coils inside. it's an empty rubber hose or a "flex hose" they call it which is a hose with a coil inside you have to bend to fit and with that tight bend a the bottom it's not gona happen. I'll contact our buick store monday and see if by chance it's still available. Im already contemplating buying a full gasket kit and doing the head gaskets anyway since i ran it so hot it died 3x yesterday

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Sounds like it was run without antifreeze. This is not good. Antifreeze contains anticorrosion additives. I keep full concentrate antifreeze and distilled water (about 125% the price of 50-50, gal of distilled is 74 cents at WallyWorld) around and change every 4-5 years.

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Guest Recian

like i said when i inherited the devil child's screaming metal death trap it was full of almost mud in the radiator which means it had been neglected hard core. Not to mention the owner who had it before the last guy was stupid enough to when they replaced the thermostat they thought it wouldnt seal since it had one bolt so they added stop leak "just in case" It can use the green coolant cant it? doesnt require dex cool that old. Dex cool started around 2001 i believe. not like it should matter since i ran it til ALL the coolant evaporated so it can be converted to either or now without gelling up. I'll probably be pulling the heads off soon and have them checked and cleaned. Maybe ported and polished depending on the cost and replacing the head gaskets, water pump and lower rad. hose in which case i'll put the correct coolant mixture in there like padgett suggested. I've heard distilled water is better to put in the engine so it doesnt corrode so bad seeing as this is my first all iron engine ive had, Ive had imports for a long time lol either aluminum blocks or iron blocks with alum heads

Edited by Recian (see edit history)
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I intend to. The only issue is aftermarket stores dont sell them with coils inside. it's an empty rubber hose or a "flex hose" they call it which is a hose with a coil inside you have to bend to fit and with that tight bend a the bottom it's not gona happen. I'll contact our buick store monday and see if by chance it's still available. Im already contemplating buying a full gasket kit and doing the head gaskets anyway since i ran it so hot it died 3x yesterday
Don't you have Advance auto parts stores in New Bern? The hose shown below looks just like mine and I would bet that it has the wire inside. Wire is standard on about all bottom GM radiator hoses.
Dayco Curved Radiator Hose

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</td></tr> <tr> <td class="table-prod-info-block"> Part No. D71310 </td> <td class="warranty-prod-info-block"> Warranty </td> <td>

</td> </tr> <tr class="bottomTD"> <td colspan="3" class="bottomTD">

</td> </tr> </tbody></table> Curved Hose; w-w/o A.C.

<table width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td width="58%">

</td> <td width="38%">

</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

<table style="width: 506px; height: 28px;"> <tbody><tr> <td width="42%">5197910_dac_d71310_pri_detl.jpg

</td><td width="40%">

</td></tr></tbody></table>

$10.79

</form>

Dayco® Molded Radiator and Bypass Hose with knitted reinforcement and all-synthetic EPDM construction provides the high strength and resistance to oil, mud, salt, road debris, ozone, coolants and temperature variations that are required for OEM hose replacements. The inner base tube is reinforced with knitted rayon for maximum strength and burst resistance for the life of the hose. In addition to meeting SAE J20R4, Class D-2 requirements, this hose meets Type EC electrochemical requirements as specified in SAE J1684. Note: Heavy-Duty Truck Molded Radiator Hoses carry an SAE J20R4, Class D-1, Type EC Classification.

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Guest Recian

i live next door to an advance auto. They know me there because im always tinkering on a car and im in there every day lol He took me behind the counter and showed me the hose. It's empty inside and it's everything you posted but it's hollow inside. He said the only way their store makes hoses with the windings inside is the "flex hoses" which are straight with a coil and are bent to fit. He said none of their molded hoses come with them and i looked at about 90% of the ones he had there and NO molded hoses had coils inside, just the straigh bend to fit flex hoses. Also the descripton you give lists a "knitted reinforcement" which is standard thread inside the rubber for all coolant hoses to withstand the pressures and heat just like a tire has inside

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i live next door to an advance auto. They know me there because im always tinkering on a car and im in there every day lol He took me behind the counter and showed me the hose. It's empty inside and it's everything you posted but it's hollow inside. He said the only way their store makes hoses with the windings inside is the "flex hoses" which are straight with a coil and are bent to fit. He said none of their molded hoses come with them and i looked at about 90% of the ones he had there and NO molded hoses had coils inside, just the straigh bend to fit flex hoses. Also the descripton you give lists a "knitted reinforcement" which is standard thread inside the rubber for all coolant hoses to withstand the pressures and heat just like a tire has inside
Well that's odd. Could it be that I have the only molded Reatta hose with wire inside? Anyone else have wire in the bottom radiator hose?
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I went out and checked my bottom hose again to be sure I hadn't dreamed it had the wire coil inside. It does have two and they feel like they are just inserted into the hose. Can't tell for sure.

I couldn't find a part number on the hose. I doubt that it still has the original hose but I guess it's possible. It still has the old wire loop clamps. Maybe I'm the one who needs to change the hose. :)

If other people are using hoses without the wire I doubt that is the cause of Recian's overheating problem.

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Guest Recian

Same. I'm starting to accept the fact im gona need to do an overhaul. New head gasket set and whatnot. I have one car under 100k and it's my girl's car now. I've always owned something over 200k and this one has 170k. I've always had to do major engine work and the car with 100k has a new tranny and clutch so i should have expected an engine overhaul when i bought the car lol Since it's gona be a daily driver going 80 miles a day i want to know 100% sure it's right and it wont blow up on me half way to work. Im sure cleaning the heads out and shining up the pistons wont have any negative effects on it's performance either :) I just have a gut feeling the misfire is due to the head gaskets now since i drove it down to the grocery store a mile away and it's already low on coolant again. I've got pretty good at taking the intake off, I learned some short cuts when i had it off earlier this month. taking the heads off is maybe another hour or so worth of work aside from getting the exhaust separated. Ive had enough engines apart recently keeping all the internal parts in order and tearing into it has become second nature almost. Electric air tools are a big help too :)

Edited by Recian (see edit history)
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Guest Squire Tom

have not had to replace any hoses for a long time, but my 69 charger RT 440 would overheat when running at speed. made me crazy. turns out the lower rad hose would collapse at speed and cut the flow. springs inserted in hose had rusted away. didnt help that the factory also had an undersized rad in the car ( no a.c. option). bought it new off the floor when i was young and stupid. now i am old and stupid.

i think i will go the way of padgett and opt for the low temp thermostat. my reatta has never overheated , but i hate to see the bars go past center in florida traffic. have not found anyone to re program the fan temps.

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Guest Recian

When i bought the car the guy had installed a thermostat in the radiator, like a temp sensor that was programmed when it hit a certain temp it would control a relay to turn the fans on, the temp was 185. It kept the car cool prior to it sitting for a year before I bought it, then the system went wacko and would never turn the fans on, which is what led to the problem Im having and probably the reason why the guy parked it. You could always go an aftermarket route if you had to

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