Circa 1918 - What model truck?

Attached is a photo taken circa 1918 of a truck belonging to the grandfather of one our region's members. He is under the impression that it is an American LaFrance, but I disagree. Unfortunately, I can't figure out what it is. The distinct vertical fins alongside the radiator shell and the apparent manufacturer's badge on the side of the hood should be enough to help those who know their early trucks.

Can anyone identify this truck?

I've seen several Republic trucks with that radiator standing proud of the hood. Just a guess.

Frank

Could be a Mack.

Most likely not a Mack, which featured a sloped hood and chain drive during this era. Republic is a decent guess, with several features seemingly matching other Republic photos I've seen - the cowl lamps in particular. One feature that doesn't appear similar is the flat roofline. The other Republics I've seen have curved cab tops. Wheels haven't matched up either.

I'm still open to more sleuthing - keep the posts coming.

Thanks all...

Not ALL Macks had the sloped hood. The model AB introduced in 1914 looks very close to this picture.

Howard Dennis

Hi,

My list of American finned rad tops with a make lable on the bonnet include Brockway, Diamond T, Available, and Pierce Arrow. International had a side badge, as did Rugby. Dont think it is any of them but may help others.

Regards

Vintman (UK)

Pierce of this vintage were right hand drive. Mack,GMC, White, American Lafrance, Brockway and Pierce all used DAYTON Wheels. The photo is dated 1918, but the gas lights would indicate an earlier truck. Hood badge shape should be key to iding this truck. All had this style radiator. Karl

Actually gas lights were used even as late as 1928 by Autocar. Hood emblem resembles International buy they all has angled hood louvers in that time period.

anyone have any info on "New York Motor Truck Sales inc. ? From the photo I am thinking this may be a photo of a truck they are selling. Could be a clue.

That radiator design reminds me of Bethlehem trucks...

Pierce Arrow and Bethlehem trucks have a sloping or tapered hood line, this truck has a straight hood. I think we need to keep looking. Karl

MaccaR ?

1918 SAURER TRUCK was from NYC, they were part of the INTERNATIONAL Co? Do we have an International expert here? Were International still all chain drive? This truck looks like shaft drive. This could eliminate some makes. What about chain drive on Mack? Karl

Still haven't made a positive ID on this truck, but I'm hoping to clarify something. Did American LaFrance manufacture civilian trucks in this era? I know they made a few handfuls of passenger cars along with plenty of fire apparatus.

If it is remembered as a LaFrance, might it be a Ward LaFrance? They began in 1918, in Elmira, New York, making trucks and did not get into fire appliances until later. Coachbult.com - Ward LaFrance Truck Corp.

My only reservation is that the badge on the side of the hood looks quite small, suggesting a short name.

I think I found it. Check out this Indiana truck on e-bay, The hood badge looks like a perfect match. Karl Other Makes - eBay (item 330539374553 end time Mar-17-11 04:58:16 PDT)

I think you've got it, Karl !

I was poring over my old truck books, looking for that hood plate with the concave top & bottom, and just couldn't seem to find it !

Frank, I remember talking to an Indiana truck owner who said less than 10 are known. I never saw production numbers for them. Karl

Its an Indiana. Cab design etc

What you have is a picture of about a 1917 or 1918 Model D 2 ton Indiana truck. The hood tells me it can't be 1916 or older and this truck looks to be worm drive. I am including a few pictures of an Indiana from back in its day and a shot of a 1920 I know of in a building before it was offered for sale a few years back. The emblems picture is from the truck that is now on ebay before it was restored. I also included a picture of the emblem from the side of the hood of my 1925 Indiana and the last picture is my 1916 Indiana the day after I got it home.

Hope this helps.

Bob

Karl, Bob, et. al.

Fantastic job in what appears to be the correct ID on this truck. I'm excited to share this with the grandson of the original owner. In addition, I am including an article in an upcoming edition of our newsletter that promotes the use of this forum based on this episode of "What Is It?".

Thanks to all who helped out,

Paul

Frank, I remember talking to an Indiana truck owner who said less than 10 are known. I never saw production numbers for them. Karl

Clem Voyton of Voyton Bros. Truck Bodies on High St. in Wilkes-Barre had one inside his shop building... I last saw it probably circa 1995... was solid, unrestored... at that time Mr. Voyton told me "they were very rare"...

Don't know what happened to the truck... preseumably Voyton Bros, and Clem are gone a few years now...

Frank,

Funny you should metion the Voyton truck because that was it in my pictures in the building. I tried to buy the truck but they wanted a stupid price for it so it went with the building to a forclosure company of some kind. The truck offered for sale a few years later on ebay and was sold to a guy in Indiana where it now sits in his building. I have since seen it in person and took pictures and measurements of the bed for a patteren to build the bed on my 1925. I had pictures of that truck on my computer for about 10 years and even had factory drawings of that bed before I ever saw the pictures of it so when it came home to Indiana I had to go see it in person. As far as I know the Voytons never got a dime out of the truck but it sold for good money on ebay.

Karl,

You may have been talking to me a few years ago when I had seen or knew of maybe 10 of these trucks built before the company sold in 1928 to Brockway and later to White in 1932. I have seen several of the White built Indiana's from 1932 to 1939 but very few built by the original Harwood/Barley Indiana Truck Corp. in Marion Indiana from 1910 to 1927. One new one shows up from time to time but of the ones I know of which is still less than 20, I would guess we wont see many more pop up. I know of the ones I have seen in the last 30 years, no two have been 100% alike but some models are close. It has been real fun finding parts because of this and when you don't have an old part to go by it is even more fun. I was lucky to have most of the hard to find parts but none were easy. The best thing I ever found was another 1925 model 11 that had a vin number just 40 off from mine that was real close to what I have. It is still owned by the original family that bought it new and it has been repainted but not restored so it was a great help to me. Now maybe I can take my truck for its first road test in 70 years this summer since I have not had out of my yard yet.

Bob

Bob,

LOL... it is a small world, some times! So photos #1 & #2 are the Voyton truck ?

From what I remember of it, it looked as though someone had backed it into the building sometime before WWII and there it sat.

Do the present owners have it running ?

I was going there for my annual vehicle inspection at the time... all those buildings around that site were left from an Anthracite coal breaker and Colliery; Wilkes-Barre # 5 , I think.

Photo #2 in my first post and #1 and 2 in my second post is that Voyton truck sitting where you had seen it in 1995. The rear wheel was stuck so they could not move it. The new owner has the wheels free now but someone took the radiator after these pictures were taken and before he went to pick it up. I know the truck would be running if it were mine but he has never started it but I did turn it over by hand the day we were there. It now lives near Indianapolis Indiana. The guy I tried to buy it from when I first found out about it was Chuck Voyton. He gave me a price over the phone of "twenty five" I thought $2500 was a good price and was thinking of a road trip but when I said $2500 sounded fair he said, "No, twenty five thousand" As Paul Harvey would say, Now you know the rest of the story! LOL

Bob

Bob,

I had the very same experience on a '24 Model T coupe a few years back... the seller said "we'll take twenty-two"... I thought "$2,200 is a fair price"...

Turns-out they meant "$22,000.00"... :eek: :confused:

I visited your Indiana Truck page - you have amazing fortitude and commitment, especially given what you started-out with ! Terrific job - I hope to see your truck "in person" some day !

Regards,

Frank

:cool:

Impressive work on the truck. It is encouraging that it did get completed after 25 years with good photo documentation. The rest of us will get our projects done in time.

I have put off posting this until now so I would have some time to look things over and see how bad it is but here is what happened a week ago Friday.

I have been working on the 25 Indiana a lot since the weather got back up into the 30's here and some of you know I had a problem last year getting the clutch to work right on the truck. Well, last summer I was able find the problem and fix it so the truck would drive and I could move it around so I pulled it out of the garage last week to air up the tires and clean the parking space so dust would not settle as soon as I cleaned the paint job and so I could get to my table saw and radial arm saw in the back of the garage. Everything went well and I was ready to start working on some wood parts I needed to make so I put the truck away and noticed the clutch was acting up again. After checking it over I found the pedal adjustment had moved so I thought I would fix it the next day when I pulled it back outside to work on it in the sun and so I could use my saws. I was able to adjust it with no real problem Friday and then went on to make some wood blocks to put under the running boards and since it was warm and sunny with no wind I put the top covering on the cab that I had bought over the winter so it would stretch tight. Everthing went real well and I felt like I was making good progress but it was getting late and I was worn out so I decided to put it away for the night so I took it out of gear and since I had removed the starter to rebuild it soon I went to the front and crank started it by hand. Then I got in and put it in gear and it started to move some so I pushed the clutch down more and it stopped just before the front tires were over the hump so I let out the clutch again and it walked right up and into the garage and when I felt the rear wheels bump over the hump I pushed the clutch in again and thats when it happened. NOTHING! I pushed it to the floor and the truck kept pulling so I hit the brakes hard and grabbed the shifter but the truck was under power and it would not come out of 1st gear and all I could do was hang on and try to kill it but I didn't have time. The truck smashed into the table saw and radial arm saw and shoved them both into the back wall and then walked up on top of some stuff I had on the floor. I was so shocked that it took me a few seconds to react and by then the truck was stopped, in gear, under full power, spinning both rear wheels on the garage floor. I killed it and then still had a hard time getting it out of gear but between my wife and me we were able to clear away some of the stuff that had fallen on the truck and under it and push it back.

I have since started to repair the damage to one fender but I also messed up the headlight bars and radiator shell and crushed a headlight ring. The damage to the truck is not bad but the saws were not so lucky as they are now a twisted mess. I am real glad this didn't happen someplace else and that no one was hurt. I can fix everything on the truck back to as good as it was and still be able to do it with no body filler and in fact the sheet metal is already back in shape and just needs painted again now. I have found another clutch in California that I am working on getting sent to me and if it is good and is the same as mine it might help me solve the problems I have had but I don't know yet. This setup is nothing like anything I have seen and its hard to get it to work right. I think something came appart inside but I wont know till I pull the tranny off again and see what happened. This is just another setback to the 31 year project that I thought was close to an end.

Indiana, sorry to hear that news . What a bummer. I too am in a long time restoration, a few clutch problems, and the like . I feel "almost " qualified to say I feel your pain.

Love the old trucks !

Ken

Indiana, sorry to hear that news . What a bummer. I too am in a long time restoration, a few clutch problems, and the like . I feel "almost " qualified to say I feel your pain.

Love the old trucks !

Ken

Well it has been a long time since this thread had an update so here it is. The 1925 Indiana is all but finished with just a few things to do but it now runs and drives and has been out to a few car shows where it has won 1st place every time so far. I sometimes take it to a show and don't register it so I don't win and sometimes I can't get away long enough with so many people looking and asking questions! Time is hard to find so not a lot has been done to it since 2012 but I will finish the little things someday. It has gone about 80 miles so far under its own power driving around Winamac and Logansport Indiana and even made it to Marion where it was built but rode in the trailer for that trip.

I will post a new picture of it here. This picture is now the background for both of my computers.

Bob

Were International still all chain drive? This truck looks like shaft drive.

Early International heavy trucks used Torbenson Drive rear ends. This consisted of half-shafts, with a pinion on the end, driving a ring gear on the brake drum or hub. The system was also used by Republic but not sure how many models or for how long it was used. It did allow for a much more compact diff housing and so, increased road clearance.

Regards

Al