Jump to content

PreWar Mercedes Benz


alsancle

Recommended Posts

I was at the RM auction and saw the 500K. It was on a platform so I didn't get a good look all around, but it looked like an older restoration. Some of the chrome was dreadful, on the doors, the radiator shell etc. lights etc. So I'm sure a few more dollars will be spent to make this a show car. I also saw the Mayfair 500K as well. I have to say that it looks better in pictures. The impression is sort of like a giant MG tourer.

We had the 170 V Roadster in the show. For some reason we were put in the "European Custom Coachwork" class, as was a 320 Cab A, so we were heavily outclassed by the rest of the cars. The 320 was a dark blue car sold at Bonhams Monterey last summer and supposedly restored in Germany by Arthur Bechtel Co. It was a 38 like mine but some details sure looked different!? Anyone here familiar with this car?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

1938 540K Cab A with covered spare sold for $2,996,255, within the pre-sale estimate, but quite a bit above the Cab A average over the past several years. I have the average Cab A from 2010-2014 at $2.1M, avg of the three that have sold in 2015 is $2.5M.

The rare 770 Cab D sold for $2.5M. Beautiful car in its own right.

Edited by 540K (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You don't see a lot of 540ks for sale on eBay. This is maybe the 3rd or 4th time I've seen one in the last 10 years.

I guess any publicity is good publicity, but I wonder how many high-end collectors are trolling eBay. After only drawing bids of $522K, they have relisted and upped the price another $300K to $2.2M. That would be a $900K profit in 2 years, but maybe that's what they're worth now. It needs $500K or more in restoration, and that would put the buyer at about $3M.

BTW, my post #957 includes a 380 Cab A in this year's sales. The larger engine Cab A's sold this year have both been about $3M.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dav, what is the current going rate on the reproduction 540k wheels with the weight covers? Also are they made both in the early and late style?

Hello AJ

Last time talk to builders they was asking 500 - 700 euro for each.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
  • 5 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

DID ANYBODY SEE IT? DID ANYBODY SEE IT?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The film on TCM early this morning? Desperate Journey. 1942 RAF downed flyers making their way out of Germany. Errol Flynn, Ronald Reagan, Alan hale, Raymond Massey Etc. They flog a couple of Pre-War Benzes on the Warner Brothers back lot. AND THEY DON"T HOLD BACK!!!!!!!!! It also looks like they chuck one off a bridge. Oh, Boo Hoo! Yeah, they speed up the action a bit but if you ever want to see what they were built to do watch the film! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

RM is selling a nice 320 long wheel base Cab A.  I'm sure Henry will be watching.

 

78 bhp, 3,405 cc naturally-aspirated inline six-cylinder engine with a Solex 32 JFF downdraft carburetor, four-speed manual transmission with overdrive, independent front suspension with coil springs, rear swing axles with coil springs, and four-wheel hydraulic brakes. Wheelbase: 129.9 in.
 

  • Excellent recent restoration by Mercedes-Benz specialists
  • Original, late-1938 3.4-liter engine with overdrive transmission
  • Highly desirable 540 K-inspired styling
  • Numerous desirable features
  • Seldom seen, especially in such superb condition


The 320 models, introduced in 1937 on the completely new W142 chassis, were the most expensive models available in the Mercedes-Benz catalogue. Only the opulent 500 K and 540 K variants, available to special order, were more costly. The very existence of the 320 was a tribute to how far Mercedes-Benz development had come in the decade since German financiers had forced the merger of Daimler and Benz to survive the economic chaos after World War I.

With the support of the new government, the combined company had completely recovered and was not only winning in motorsports but was also producing a complete lineup of models. There was a Mercedes-Benz at every price point in the German marketplace, from the rear-engined 170 H and straightforward 170 V sedans to the glorious 540 K Special Roadsters, and examples were seen in the most fashionable venues of Europe and America.

The W142 320 could be purchased with standard and short wheelbases and in a variety of body styles from practical sedan to sporty cabriolet. With war once again on the horizon, the W142 was even being produced in military trim. Four cabriolet versions were available, including a two-door two-seat, two-door four-seat, four-door four-seat, and extended four-door four-seat version, but these were produced only in very small numbers and only on special order for wealthy and influential customers. Taking into account all civilian body styles, a total of only just over 5,000 units of the W142 320 were built in all.

By late 1938, when this example was built, high-octane gasoline was becoming less available to civilian customers; engine capacity in the 320s was increased to 3.4 liters to maintain the 78-horsepower output of the preceding 3.2-liter engine, but with lower compression. To take advantage of highway speeds of over 75 mph on the new autobahns, the 3.4-liter 320’s four-speed manual transmission was equipped with a planetary-gear overdrive, engaged by a separate lever.

This example has the most desirable of the available 320 body styles: the two-door, two-seat Cabriolet A with a flat one-piece windshield sporting three windshield wipers. Built on the W142 chassis, the styling shows the clear influence of the designs of Hermann Ahrens, introduced on the 500 K and 540 K special body roadsters. The seats are set well back on the chassis to create a long hood allowing for flowing fender lines and a shorter tail accented by an externally mounted spare tire and wheel. As with other low-production cabriolets in the Mercedes-Benz line-up, the panels on this 320 were hand-formed over wood frames.

The 320 models were built at both the Mannheim and Untertürkheim production plants, with this body bearing the emblem of the Mannheim Werks. Unfortunately, the Mannheim factory was one of the first destroyed in Allied bombing raids because of its location next to a war-critical ball-bearing factory, and all of the production records have been lost. Consequently, no other information other than that on the vehicle tags is available for this car, and no information exists on how many other 320 Cabriolet As may have been built.

According to the owner, this 320 Cabriolet A was recently found in Eastern Europe, where it had sat untouched and in storage for several decades, probably having been hidden away during World War II. Purchased from the long-time owner, the car has been the subject of an exhaustive body-off restoration by experienced Mercedes-Benz specialists, with every single component removed and refurbished or replaced as necessary.

In addition to completely restoring the chassis frame and suspension components, the work required rebuilding much of the ash framing underlying the metal body panels. The inline six-cylinder engine and transmission were, of course, completely rebuilt to match the attention given to the exterior and interior restoration. Photographs of the restoration process are available in the car’s file.

A period-accurate two-tone paint scheme was selected for the car in the subtle but attractive black-over-green colors. The interior trim is done in matching dark green wool carpeting and green leather complemented by a rich finish on the wood trim, which effectively sets off the mother-of-pearl center-mounted instrument panel, white control knobs, and steering wheel. The cloth top and covering for the externally mounted spare wheel and tire are done in a matching dark green. Wide whitewall Firestone tires, of the sort that an American owner would have mounted, are an effective counterpoint to the dark colors of the 320 Cabriolet A.

The car is fitted with an interesting set of period-correct optional accessories, including a folding leather-upholstered seat for a child, or perhaps a maid or valet, in the tonneau area behind the front seats; spotlights mounted on the A-pillars; and a third driving light in front of the grille and externally mounted chrome Bosch horns. A set of matched luggage, in green and black to match the interior, has been fabricated to fit the compartment accessible from the tonneau area.

Elegant in presentation, comfortable to drive, and easily capable of modern freeway speeds, this rare and seldom-seen 1938 Mercedes-Benz 320 Cabriolet A will be welcomed on long-distance touring events and at regional concours events.

post-76712-0-54913800-1435003886_thumb.j

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my March post about the 320 Cab A at shown at Amelia, sold to the current owner by Bonhams last year at Pebble Beach, I made an oblique comment that the details on that car sure looked different from my car. So I'll be a little less obscure. I'm quite sure that car was a fake and now that I look at this car, I'm pretty sure it is too. I've been studying photos of restored 320 Cab A's for years since it's been well known in 320 circles that replica bodies have been made, I think in Poland. I was getting to the point where I thought I could spot the telltale details in the photos, but wasn't 100% sure. Having seen the car at Amelia, all of these issues with the body lines and panel work just jumped out almost instantly.

 

The existence of replica bodies on these cars is becoming more well known amongst dealers in Europe, and I'm wondering whether that's why two of these cars have turned up at auctions in the US where buyers are probably less knowledgeable about them. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess there are a lot of rebodied cars being sold as original, regardless of the body style. My car is rebodied, but I would never try to pass it off as anything else. It won't be allowed on the "hallowed lawns" but I'll have more fun going to shows where people never get to see anything like a Special Roadster. 

 

I'll be watching the Auctions America sale July 18 where a rebodied Special Roadster will be the star of the show. Artcurial failed to sell a similar car in Paris in January, despite an alledged bid of $1.9M. Maybe the owner of this car will have a more realistic reserve, though I suspect it's at least $1.7M. I don't think Auctions America is where I'd try to sell this car, regardless what incentive they may have offered. There is absolutely nothing else in the 300-car auction in the same category as a Special Roadster - rebodied or not. The only other cars estimated at a million or more are a couple of Ferrari's and a 300SL roadster. Good luck attracting the right bidders. I hope it sells for $2M, but I predict it goes back home with the current owner, even though it is the most accurate rebodied Special Roadster you can buy. I dispute that the paint is one of Mercedes' colors as touted by the catalog. I've never seen a 540K of any body style with pearlized paint. That's what is giving it the pink hue in the sunlight. It's beautiful, but wouldn't be (and isn't) my choice. At least he didn't put whitewalls on it!

 

http://auctionsamerica.com/events/feature-lots.cfm?SaleCode=CA15&ID=r0215&Order=alphabetical&feature=&collection=&grouping=&category=vehicles

CHuOREGXAAE-ayJ.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

DID ANYBODY SEE IT? DID ANYBODY SEE IT?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The film on TCM early this morning? Desperate Journey. 1942 RAF downed flyers making their way out of Germany. Errol Flynn, Ronald Reagan, Alan hale, Raymond Massey Etc. They flog a couple of Pre-War Benzes on the Warner Brothers back lot. AND THEY DON"T HOLD BACK!!!!!!!!! It also looks like they chuck one off a bridge. Oh, Boo Hoo! Yeah, they speed up the action a bit but if you ever want to see what they were built to do watch the film! 

 

 

I don't know anything about 1942 productions, but modern movies just use mock-ups of classic cars when they're "flogged" like that. I know the staff cars in Raiders of the Lost Ark probably had no Mercedes parts/panels on them at all. Is it just me or do they look like American cars with Mercedes radiators? Filmed entirely in California, I suppose they could have had a few vintage Mercedes available, but maybe crying is not necessary!

 

I love the chase sequence -- squealing tires on dirt roads (which Hollywood still does), and doing everything but drifting (not that they didn't try)! Thanks for both posts!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In 1942 they would think nothing of beating the crap out of a Bugatti Royale.   Craig is right,  these days everything is fabricated.

 

It always amazes me when somebody writes a healthy check without knowing what they are doing.   It is practically impossible for a car of stature not to have at least a 40 year history if not much longer.  I can see things being fuzzy around the war but a half a million dollar plus car you should be able to trace back.    I think the internet makes it harder and harder to pull a fast one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  I think the internet makes it harder and harder to pull a fast one.

 

Yes, but there is still a lot of misinformation out there. I picked up a book for two bucks the other day called Great Marques - Mercedes-Benz by Roger Bell published in 1980. It has a photo of what appears to be a high door, long tail Special Roadster with 4 side windows like a Cab B and a small back seat. There appears to be a rumble seat lid, but it's not open. No trim on the fenders, vent screens are wrong, bumpers are wrong, wire wheels look chunky, tops of the seat are wrong - and that's just from a single profile photo. The caption is "1934 500K Special Roadster with all-independent suspension and a six cylinder 5-litre supercharged engine."  This is wrong on so many levels. My best guess is that this is one of the Sbarro replicas, but this car gets a two-page spread in a book purporting to be about real Mercedes-Benz cars. The Sbarro cars bring about $200,000 I believe, but in a private sale someone might think because of this book they were buying a real Mercedes if they have not done their homework and act in haste before someone else gets the "deal of a lifetime."

Edited by 540K (see edit history)
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let be honest

Original chassis of 540k cab b. Is around 500-600k$ body in Poland 60-70k$ or in USA 100-120k$.

So the price for redody cars are 700-800k$

:)

That the how it works.

But if you have a guy who can spend for that car 2-3 mil$ you are really lucky owner of 540k rebody car.

That what I personly think.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dav,

 

I'll agree with the 500-600 for a junk Cab B, although I don't think there are many of those left.  If I go along with your 100-120 for the body (which I think is probably 50% low) you still need the 500k to restore the whole thing.  With 500k being a very quicky restoration.   Top end these days in the U.S.A would be closer to 800k for a 540k restoration.  So I still think you are talking a hefty number even for a rebodied car.   I'm sure Craig knows the numbers better than I.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 So the price for redody cars are 700-800k$.

 

 

I agree that $2M is too much for most rebodied cars and one has never sold for more than $1M to my knowledge. On the other hand, I was told last year an offer of $1.7M was declined for this car coming up for auction next month. If one is going to sell for $2M, it would be one like this with a better paint color and in a major auction rather than a 2nd-tier auction like the one next month. If you can't justify or afford $10-12M for an original long tail roadster (the next one offered may be $15M), and don't want to wait possibly years for another one to come on the market, then this is the best you can buy. It's much better than the Prahl-made car offered by Artcurial in January. If the 1.9M Euro bid at Artcurial for the Prahl car was a real bid, then this car (again, better paint and better auction) is a $2M car.

 

I don't know what $60-70K buys in Poland, but I doubt $120K in the US will buy the kind of perfect body as the auction car, and $700-800K won't buy a finished car to the standard of the auction car in the US (anymore). To modify the frame and radiator, rebuild the engine, build an ash frame, steel body, dozens of pieces of trim, all the other parts that are unique to Special Roadsters, glass, plating, paint, trim, assembly, etc - $1.2M minimum for an exact replica on an original chassis if you spend $500-600K on an original chassis. 

 

Even the door handles are unique to Special Roadsters. There is really very little you can move from a Cab B to a Special Roaster - chassis (with modification), engine, radiator (with modification), instruments, lights, interior door and window handles, gas cap, wheels. Maybe front seat? That's about it. It's all very complex and expensive for a fabricator to make all the other parts needed in addition to the body panels themselves.

Edited by 540K (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 $1.2M minimum for an exact replica on an original chassis

 

And that doesn't count the "moral cost" if you replace an original Cab B or C body with a Special Roadster. Thankfully, I did not have to sacrifice an original Cab body because my chassis did not have any part of an original body on it. It's a wonder the chassis and engine survived at all given the amount of damage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I did not said word about restoration

That correct restoration is the major fact of this high end roudsters

But looking to the Graigs car it is should be really nice car on the end

My mistake, Davlet. I thought you meant you could buy a finished rebodied roadster for $700-800K.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...