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1955 Disc Brake Conversion Kit?


Guest 1955BuickBarnRat

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Guest 1955BuickBarnRat

I am new to the forum and looking for some help on how to convert my 1955 Buick Special 2 dr to a front disc brake setup. I was told there is a guy on here who has a list of everything you need to convert to disc brakes including part numbers? If anyone knows more information on this that would be great! Thanks

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Guest Jim_Edwards
I am new to the forum and looking for some help on how to convert my 1955 Buick Special 2 dr to a front disc brake setup. I was told there is a guy on here who has a list of everything you need to convert to disc brakes including part numbers? If anyone knows more information on this that would be great! Thanks

I would contact these folks, though I'm not a big proponent of disc brake conversions. They sell a front brake kit for $155 but you will have to buy the rotors and calipers they list with the kit. Also recommended you go to a dual chamber master cylinder.

Scarebird Classic Brakes LLC

Jim

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Guest 1955BuickBarnRat

That was very helpful! Thanks. So has anybody out there installed the kit using the part numbers Scarebird gives? If so... How involved was it? Also where are people mounting their master cylinders instead of using the stock location?

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I know that many people perceive that they HAVE to have disc brakes to have "good brakes", but that might not be completely true. It would be better to upgrade to a dual master cylinder as a first upgrade (AND part of the disc brake upgrade, anyway). You might be able to use some existing hardware/components from street rod upgrades (many of which are sold by vendors who advertise in Street Rodder magazine, or similar) as most of the earlier systems were "under the floor" rather than "on the firewall".

The main advantage to disc brakes is their rfepeated-use fade resistance rather than ultimate stopping power in that "one time" event. Most of those earlier drum systems, as archaic as they might be now, would generally have NO trouble locking up the wheels back then. If you can lock-up a wheel with the existing system, that can mean one of two things . . . not enough tire tread width on the ground OR too much brake capacity for the weight of the vehicle . . . OR BOTH.

Then there's the "servo" action built-into those earlier drum systems. The leading shoe would use the drum's rotation to help apply the brakes, decreasing the necessary pedal input from the driver. Something which disc brakes can't have--period.

Pedal feel?? Depending upon which disc brake pads which might be on the vehicle, a disc brake car will generally be more prone to have a spongier pedal feel than a drum brake car will . . . by observation. Something you might not notice until you investigate it.

Back when your car was new, there were not any federal standards for brake performance. You started with the factory "standard" brake shoes and went from there. There were usually some "Taxi" or "Police" specification shoes from the factory, too, but might have used wider shoes than the stock ones were, which would mean wider drums to make them work, or they might have been more "metallic" in their lining orientation.

From there, you went to the aftermarket. In the earlier-1960s time frame, there were several brake lining tests by some of the car/enthusiast magazines (i.e., Popular Science, CarLife) which used a 1960 Ford Galaxie for their test car. Graphic pictures showed how well the various linings held up in severe use and which ones kept coming back for more, so to speak. Best bets, back then, were the national name brand linings, but it seems that VelveTouch was the hands-down winner in the durability/severe use tests on that 1960 Ford (which had very generously-size front brakes on it). There were also some local brake shop chains that advertised "Brakes With Brass" for better fade resistance in heavy-duty use. Plus the factory "full metallic" linings, which were generally segmented-section linings rather than one continuous lining piece on the shoes.

These segmented metallic linings were used for racing applications, typically, but found their way into the first Chevy Impala SS package cars in 1961. The drag racers liked those cars, but took the factory metallic brake linings off as those earlier metallic brakes took HEAT to work, something which a drag racer's brakes didn't have as they pulled to the staging line and tried to stage the car against the torque converter . . . the cars couldn't be staged that was as the metallic-lined brakes wouldn't hold them, but the normal brake linings didn't have that problem. So the Impala SS cars that got drag-raced usually had the non-SS brake linings in them.

I believe that 5563 or Old-Tank can tell you which brand of modern brake linings to purchase and work best for your car. In modern times, as the multitude of brake lining choices which we enjoyed in the 1960s has pretty much vanished, there are a few brands left and some are better (i.e., stop better) than others. One of the other choices is the PraiseDyno brake people who can probably provide some of the semi-metallic linings for your vehicle.

In more modern times, many people have been sensitized to believe that disc brakes are the ONLY type of brake to have, but back when drum brakes were all we had, they seemed to work very well for normal and even many heavy-duty uses. The strong suit for disc brakes is their greatly-increased fade resistance and better use of metallic brake pad compounds . . . plus parts availability, combined with modern hydrualic designs (including proportioning valves!), and lighter-weight components. Many of these same people have forgotten (or weren't around) when it was common knowledge that you only used your toe on the power brake pedal rather than the ball of your foot . . . lest you "eat some steering wheel"--my 1970 Skylark is this way, with power drum brakes.

OH, the sound of those "Skid marks being laid down on the street"!!!! Stationary tires clawing against the paved surface . . . until motion is totally stopped. Back when "Anti-Lock Brakes" were completely analog, using the sensors in your body, the pressure sensors your sitting on, and your arms to make things work as quickly and efficiently as you could--back when driving generally took more skills and "trained instincts" rather than electronics. Electronics can be good, too, but we just didn't have them back then like we do now . . .

Just some thoughts . . .

NTX5467

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Seems like the strong suit for the Scarebird operative(s) is that you'll be looking in the salvage yards for generally readily-available more modern parts than paying much more money for a kit which might use repair parts available only from the particular vendor source? But once you get the parts list from Scarebird, you might then head to your local auto supply and get new/reman from them what you might otherwise be searching the salvage yards for, in some cases. Each orientation has its own benefits -- your judgment call.

NTX5467

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All I can help with is that Raybestos brand shoes seem to need to be really warmed up to stop properly per Old-Tank.

I have considered going to the dual master myself, especially after my MC failure last year in my Special. Overall, I am happy with the drum brakes after many miles and many stops. Just my opinion... and I am NOT trying to talk you out of discs. Believe me.

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A few comments:
1-Scarebird makes a slick product and the installation is straight forward unless you use drop spindles, then modifications are needed (as outlined in their installation guide)
2-You will need to fabricate an adequate mount for the master cylinder
3-you will need to fabricate a remote fill for the master cylinder
4-the brake arm will need to be modified (stock Buick brakes are a 1:1 ratio; after market power brakes need a 6:1 ratio)

2,3,4 should be done by a rod builder shop that has done it before and understands the concept and can help you match components like bore of the master cyliner, etc

Don't even think of using a non power master cylinder.
[imghttp://forums.aaca.org/uploads/gallery/album_1/gallery_30648_1_1431482134_25428.jpg

one picture is worth.....
Willie

Edited by old-tank (see edit history)
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Guest 1955BuickBarnRat

Thanks everyone for the advice! So "Old-Tank" I have everything planned out as far as master cylinder/booster (universal type setup with booster mounted on firewall) Everything will be brand new. I am using the Scarebird bracket and buying all the necessary parts at O'reilly Auto Parts since I work there and get a considerably good discount! Here is my next question..... I want to get that low stance by dropping it with some lowering coils in the front through Jamco. I don't want to use spindles because of the modifications needed when using the Scarebird kit. Also I dont care about the geometry as much as most, due to the fact the car will be driven only a few times a month if that. So can I use lowering coils with the Scarebird disc brake conversion and get the lowered stance I want and disc brakes??? I dont want to do the spindles if I can just do lowering coils with the disc brakes and suffer some of the effects. Any input here would be greatly appreciated as I want to order up these coils along with the Scarebird kit and get this car on the road by Summer with a lowered stance and all new stopping power!!! Thanks

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In seeing many "cut the coils" lowering situations, when the new ride height is attained, the front wheels will need to have the camber readjusted to keep the wheels from being tilted too far in at the top (negative camber). This is where the lowering spindles come in as they allow the front end to be properly aligned and the wheels be basically perpendicular to the road surface. This keeps steering linkage geometry "as designed", too, not just the control arms' geometry. Think "bump steer", for example. Generally, you can go about 1" either side of design ride height, up or down, and still have front end alignment adjustability and the steering linkage geometry issues pretty much "as designed". The OTHER issue with using the lowering spindles is that unless the wheels hit the inner fender when the suspension bottoms out, or during a turn, allows the suspension to have all of its designed-in travel, up and down. Cutting coils puts the lower control arm bumper THAT much closer to "bottoming out".

The other thing is that your springs probably have already sagged from their original ride height, so you could already have a "lowered ride height" without any work. We get used to seeing some cars in that condition and we perceive that to be "normal", but when the repro springs are put on them, then we perceive them to sit too high, but at a more correct ride height.

Personally, I like suspension travel in my own cars. Much nicer ride with heavy duty shocks keeping things under control (usually KONIs if I can get them). Don't have to worry about "making an entrance" to the hamburger drive-in's steep entry ramp, with scraping metal against concrete sounds. But everybody has their own tolerance levels on these things and some vehicles work better than others.

Please keep us posted with your progress!

NTX5467

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  • 4 weeks later...
Guest 1955BuickBarnRat

Hi Everyone! So its been a couple of months but I finally finished the rear end conversion and front disc brakes on my 1955 Special. I ended up using the bracket/kit from "Scarebird" and it went smoothly! As for a master cylinder I ended up going with a dual reservoir type and mounted it in the original location. I plumbed all the new lines today. For the rear end I used a GM 10 bolt out of a 1976 Nova and as far fitment it works great! Then from there made my own crossmember for the ladder bar rear suspension and used coil over shocks. Everything went smoothly and wasn't as hard as I thought it would be. A built sbc 350 is going in with a th350 (3500 stall and shift kit) within the next couple weeks. I will keep posting on how the rest goes. My goal has been to cruise it to the PNW Goodguys show this July so at this rate it will be possible. Thanks everyone for the advice/info!

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  • 1 month later...
Guest daveh70

How about a disc brake conversion from Kanter? Anyone use them? I know they sell one for the 58 and am considering buying it.

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Guest Jim_Edwards
How about a disc brake conversion from Kanter? Anyone use them? I know they sell one for the 58 and am considering buying it.

You might want to consider comparing what Kanter offers to kits offered directly form manufacturers. Kantor does a great job for many things, but they don't make much of what they sell. Thanks to the internet you should be able to figure out by appearance who actually makes the kit they sell (probably don't have in stock). You'll probably save some money and will have a direct connection for any warranty issues that might be encountered by going directly to the source.

Jim

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  • 10 months later...

on your 55, I was curious what ratio the 10 bolt was. Sounds like you are not too concerned with highway cruising, what is your RPM at 75 MPH?

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  • 1 year later...
Guest 3 Tone

On my 55 Special I used a 70 Nova MC it has the same bore at the 55 Buick. Drilled 2 new mounting holes in the stock mount, made a new push rod, smacked the floor a few time in the right place with a BFH to get room to move the cap bail and did a replumb to split the brakes fromt to rear. It works great.

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For those who might be "higher bucks" oriented, Wilwood now has disc brake kits for older Buicks and many other older drum brake vehicles. You can probably find an ad in Street Rodder magazine, or similar. I DO like OEM-based conversions, though, IF they work correctly AND you have a "line sheet" to provide to future owners.

Enjoy!

NTX5467

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A built sbc 350 is going in with a th350 (3500 stall and shift kit) within the next couple weeks. I will keep posting on how the rest goes. My goal has been to cruise it to the PNW Goodguys show this July so at this rate it will be possible. Thanks everyone for the advice/info!

Aw man! You just took the heart and soul from the Buick. Now all you have is a jelly-bean wearing a different cloak. You've got to stick with a nailhead for both looks and overall style. Find a 401/425 from a '64 - 66 and use the ST400 (Buicks marketing name for the TH400) with the variable pitch torque converter. With a "dressed" nailhead under the hood of that car, people will actually stop, look at it, and admire it. Just another SBC? People just keep walking. You need the monster torque generated by the nailhead to move your monster car. You might get some top end HP from a SBC but not enough torque to move that car. (My opinion, but I think it's a good one. :) )

Troy Trapainier just built a '56 and put a 401 (bored to 413) nailhead in it. If Troy thinks a nailhead belongs in a Buick, who's to argue with him. He but an L480E transmission behind it. I wonder what kind of horsepower and torque numbers twin intercooled turbochargers on a 413 nailhead might make??? For a SBC to make that kind of power, it would be unstreetable.

Edited by RivNut (see edit history)
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  • 3 months later...

Jamco Suspension has kitted up essentially what Scarebird was providing the key brackets for:

http://jamcosuspension.com/products/sfID1/33/sfID2/42/sfID3/35

$735 as I post this - includes rotors, bearings, calipers, caliper brackets, lines, pads, hardware - basically disk brakes & lines back to the frame on the stock Buick spindles (or drop spindles, bought separately). Drilled/slotted rotors +$80.

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  • 4 months later...

Buick Barn Rat: What was the make of the dual MC that you used? I have discs all the way around but am looking for a MC that will allow the washer bottle to remain in place. Look forward to your thoughts. 1958 Buick Wagon. Cheers. Michael.

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Guest 54fins

I personally find the stock drum brakes, without power assist are great. They "self energize" so if you stall, you still have brakes. modifying an older car is fun, but every mod leads to 3 more mods to make everything work together. If you just want disk brakes "because", I personally wouldn't waste the money. A stock 50's car just doesn't have the handling to be speeding on mountain roads. If you start down that road, you may as well build an entire frame. I really like the Riviera drums, they are the ultimate in drum brakes- huge and can dissipate a lot of heat.

I opted to build a frame, but that isn't cheap or easy for most people. But if you do go to a dual master and put it under the car, I have attached a photo. I used speedway parts and I'll try to break the P/n's down. This would be a safety upgrade. Had to make a couple of parts and run a remote reservoir. I would always suggest safety upgrades are worthwhile- seat belts, dual master etc. for obvious reasons. I'm actually less a fan of power brakes, older cars with good drum brakes are fine but I'm intending to do some mountain cruising so I went the whole package. Not sure how Riviera drums would mount on a 54 front end but they have the 5 on 5 pattern

post-74392-143142448772_thumb.jpg

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  • 3 years later...
On 2/3/2011 at 8:03 PM, old-tank said:

A few comments:
1-Scarebird makes a slick product and the installation is straight forward unless you use drop spindles, then modifications are needed (as outlined in their installation guide)
2-You will need to fabricate an adequate mount for the master cylinder
3-you will need to fabricate a remote fill for the master cylinder
4-the brake arm will need to be modified (stock Buick brakes are a 1:1 ratio; after market power brakes need a 6:1 ratio)

2,3,4 should be done by a rod builder shop that has done it before and understands the concept and can help you match components like bore of the master cyliner, etc

Don't even think of using a non power master cylinder.
[imghttp://forums.aaca.org/uploads/gallery/album_1/gallery_30648_1_1431482134_25428.jpg

one picture is worth.....
Willie

So it seems like there are LOTS of threads about disc brake conversion, but not a one ever gets a good tech break down start to finish.  I had ordered the scarebird kit for front discs (sitting on a shelf waiting on my 55 to see some more work) and noticed they now have a manual dual master cylinder "bolt in" for the old buicks.  Then I saw this that says NEVER use a manual MC.  Photo link is broken, but I assume it's a wrecked car.  Why would one have to have power brakes to run discs?

 

would appear that Kanter's Master kit    https://www.kanter.com/productdetail.aspx?DeptNo=1100&MakeName=Buick&MakeYear=1955&CategoryID=803&ProductCode=523&Router=Catalog   while expensive, makes simple, quick installation with all the engineering done for you!

Edited by wndsofchng06 (see edit history)
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Disc brakes need much more pressure to stop the car because it's a clamp, and not a self energizing radial brake like a drum. Drums apply pressure to the outer most part, obviously, of the drum, while caliper pads apply pressure at different radii. It just needs the added oomph of power brakes to really clamp down hard.

 

Also you're going with discs now, Matt? My only advice is stick with the original power brake cylinder and don't try to upgrade it. I've been down that road and nothing works for the under dash units. The space is too tight, the bore is not right and the pedal ratio is too small.

 

I did this when I first started my Buick, and have found that when properly set up, drums and original equipment works best.

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I had always intended front disc brakes.    But at the very least I'm putting the bolt in dual reservoir under it.   That kanter kit, could I afford it, is a bolt in power brake, dual reservoir, and discs!  HA HA HA

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My 02 Liberty has a dual reservoir master cylinder and when my front line blew, all I had was the parking brake. If fluid is missing from one reservoir, you still have no brakes because the piston relies on fluid being in both reservoirs to function - it's nothing more than a proportioning valve. If it helps you sleep better at night, more power to you, but I rebuilt my power brake system myself and it hasn't failed me yet. Worked better than the dual reservoir and power booster I had installed when I first had it on the road. 

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