Kimono-clad Japanese women in early 20th century car. Can you identify the car?

I know the "kimono" car looks big, but the front sure DOES look a lot like a Fiat...

Please note that these Japanese women are almost certainly less than 5 feet tall and very skinny. So to get the proportion of the car right, think of putting skinny 12 year olds in their place.

The car in this link is most definitely not a Model Zero. It looks more like one of the bigger American-built models. Here is a Zero - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/Fiat_Zero_blue.jpg - they only began around 1912-13 and most of the surviving examples seem to date from about 1914. They are quite small and usually have torpedo bodies.

Fiat's big race cars of that era were all chain drive. In the 1906-1910 era there was a multiplicity of models and as with many makes of old race car, some were turned into touring cars and there were replicas of the race car chassis built as touring cars. I

Hi Folks,

My thoughts were that it does have similarities to a FIAT of cca 1908 but my only questions were that FIAT rad downslope on side looks curved whereas it is straight on the Japanese photo.

I asked one of our venerable experts John Warburton for his thoughts. He advises that he has a feeling that he has seen this charming photo previously. He also believes that it is a FIAT but of c 1905-6.

He advises the wheel centres are an exact match for the 1905-7 60hp six cylinder, and also with the 28-40hp FIAT racing car that took part in the 1907 Targa Florio (7. litres 4 cyl), where the radiator also matches with the slightly curved side 'shoulders'. If John feels 'confident', it is likely to be so.

I have subsequently come across a web photo of a 1908 Tourer which has very similar front axle, hub arrangemnt, dumbirons, rad profile, and construction of the rear wheel. Obviously no point at looking at the body as this would have been made by others. The half front doors on the Japanese car are period but the 'speedster' type scuttle suggest a later style with a possible American influence.

Regards

Vintman (UK)

Hi Folks,

My thoughts were that it does have similarities to a FIAT of cca 1908 but my only questions were that FIAT rad downslope on side looks curved whereas it is straight on the Japanese photo.

I asked one of our venerable experts John Warburton for his thoughts. He advises that he has a feeling that he has seen this charming photo previously. He also believes that it is a FIAT but of c 1905-6.

He advises the wheel centres are an exact match for the 1905-7 60hp six cylinder, and also with the 28-40hp FIAT racing car that took part in the 1907 Targa Florio (7. litres 4 cyl), where the radiator also matches with the slightly curved side 'shoulders'. If John feels 'confident', it is likely to be so.

I have subsequently come across a web photo of a 1908 Tourer which has very similar front axle, hub arrangemnt, dumbirons, rad profile, and construction of the rear wheel. Obviously no point at looking at the body as this would have been made by others. The half front doors on the Japanese car are period but the 'speedster' type scuttle suggest a later style with a possible American influence.

Regards

Vintman (UK)

Vintman, thank you very much. The photo of the FIAT tourer does indeed look very similar to the car with kimono clad women. I would like to thank everybody for your extremely kind help. This would have been impossible for me to discover without your assistance.

Just caught a glimpse on TV here of a program titled The Wonderful World of Albert Kahn for which the program synopsis is given in part as: "In 1908 Albert Kahn and his chauffercumphotographer Alfred Dutertre embarked on a.......circumnavigation of the globe visiting US, Japan.......". I saw the part of the program which included the visit to Japan, during which the narrator said that they took first colour photographs in that country. Googled Albert Kahn and found there is a museum in France containing 72,000 images he commissioned or collected. Might be a good source for further research for this pic.

Link to museum - Albert Kahn - Musée et Jardins: English

Just caught a glimpse on TV here of a program titled The Wonderful World of Albert Kahn for which the program synopsis is given in part as: "In 1908 Albert Kahn and his chauffercumphotographer Alfred Dutertre embarked on a.......circumnavigation of the globe visiting US, Japan.......". I saw the part of the program which included the visit to Japan, during which the narrator said that they took first colour photographs in that country. Googled Albert Kahn and found there is a museum in France containing 72,000 images he commissioned or collected. Might be a good source for further research for this pic.

Link to museum - Albert Kahn - Musée et Jardins: English

Thanks for the tip. Albert Kahn's collection of photographs and moving images of Japan are among my most favorite. Kahn focused on the local culture, intending to preserve traditions before they vanished under the deluge of Westernization and modernization, so I doubt that notes were made of cars if they appeared in their images. Nonetheless, I will have a new look at his collection. I watched that documentary several years ago—really amazing, eh!