Overdrive or new rear end gears?

Hi, I was lucky enough to get one of Phil hill's 3.5.to 1 (approx) for my '38 Super 8 victoria coupe. (using a '35 super 8 diff)

Then I also was lucky to get a '39 super 8 motor & gearbox with overdrive (R9).

'39 was the only year they made a separate bell housing for the 5.3 litre std/super 8.

I thought I might have overdone it - but it's perfect. She'll cruise at 60 - 70 mph, at about 1700 - 1900rpm in top O/D. 2nd O/D is slightly lower than top non-o/d, & is a great hill gear.

She's not as lively as with the old 4.7 diff, but tha's a small price to pay.

For your 12, I'd suggest checking out Mitchell overdrives - I'm fitting one to my 1930 740, and there are several here in NZ - they work well. We live in a very hilly/mountainous country, so gearing is important. You might do well with both! The '30s gearing was hopeless for todays road conditions.

Cheers, mike

The knob and lockout, which was the subject of some guesswork on my part, actually controls the Borg-Warner overdrive unit's Free Wheeling feature. I'm not terribly familiar with it, but it decouples the engine from the rear axle when not under load. It isn't a reverse lock-out per se, but using reverse without this Free Wheeling feature engaged will damage the overdrive. I'm still not 100% certain of how it is used and when to apply it (it's more complicated than just a reverse lock-out), but I'm sure that's just an experience thing that I'll figure out once I have the car on the road. The knob can be located anywhere in the car, and I plan to install mine at the base of the front seat where it will be mostly out of sight, rather than under the dash.

I leave my knob pushed in all the time, and when I get to about 25-30 MPH in 3rd I just lift my gas foot a bit and it shifts into OD. But just a note with the knob pushed in you are "free wheeling" so no down shifting to slow down.

Tom, push the knob in, then accelerate up to speed and hit the button and lift abruptly off the throttle. It should shift into overdrive automatically at that point. As Phil says above, you can just leave the knob pushed in all the time, but the freewheeling will be active in non-overdrive situations, a feeling I don't like but have gotten used to. You can pull the knob out on the roll by feeding in a bit of throttle, but I personally only like to do it at a full stop just to be safe. I don't want to beat up the old hardware.

If the overdrive doesn't kick in, try holding the activation button in while you lift and see if it shifts then. Mine occasionally gets recalcitrant, but that works 9 times out of 10. I'm quite pleased with the system, especially now that all the bugs are worked out. The car is a true pleasure to drive under all conditions.

I am not having luck getting this overdrive to engage. There is the push pull cable and a toggle switch that appears, when turned on, to be a reverse lockout? In any position on the cable, there is no freewheeling.

Hmmmm. That doesn't look like a Borg-Warner unit, so I'm guessing it's a Packard R9 or R11 setup (surely an expert will identify it for certain). My guess is that there is an internal problem. When I was getting mine sorted out, I had problems getting it into Freewheeling mode which ultimately was caused by a bad pawl inside the gearbox. It's just a little lever and mine had broken. No Freewheeling, no overdrive, but it didn't interfere with normal operation of the drivetrain. I suspect you have a similar problem and may have to go inside the 'box to see what's going on.

Or perhaps there's another issue that's endemic to the Packard overdrives that someone here will be able to solve. Either way, it's probably not a major repair, but getting the gearbox out can be a hassle, although it looks like you don't have a torque tube to deal with like I do, which will greatly simplify the procedure.

The toggle switch is probably the trigger mechanism for the solenoid on the side, which is what engages the overdrive. Is it a momentary switch or does it stay in position?

This is an aftermarket OD and certainly not an R-9 or 11. I have one of those in my 1939, first year for factory overdrive. As for the solenoid, when turned on, the car will not back up. Might have to do some exploring on the lift and make sure all is functioning. I would like to identify it though.

Hi I have a 38 super 8 with both a 35 super 8 diff with one of Phil hills 3.54 (I think) crown wheel & pinion and a 1939 overdrive

It's great almost everywhere but very occasionally one notices its slightly high geared. Like a steep drive on a cold morning with a cold motor

At 60 mph I'm doing about 2300 rpm & 1750 or do in overdrive

For the v12 you could get a Mitchell. They come in various ratios. Personally id go for a high back end plus a 25% Mitchell if it's affordable. Especially with the 12 it'll then be a joy on the road & youll have no trouble exceeding the speed limit. My motor is only 5.3 l vs your 7.7 and new Zealand is very hilly. I love it - just done about 1500 miles around north island with lots of narrow winding up & down roads with 4 poeple in it plus baggage and it's been a joy to travel in

All the best Mike T

I have been looking at this for a long time and the gears seem hard to get, looked into the mitchell OD and not sure if it will handle the torque of the V12, I have been talking with Rick the owner of Gear Vendors OD. and has has done quite a few on Packards V12s and has them hooked up with a button that can be hidden so you dont see anything unless you crawl under the car.

I just put one of his ODs in a 69 dodge daytona and can say they are worth every penny.

Due to failing health my Father in law will probably sell the 39 V12 before putting an OD in it. look up Gearvendors online, they have pictures of their OD in classic cars.

Does anyone know how to get one of these O/D units? And what do they cost?

Hi Mark. The unit I have fitted to my 1930 Packard 740 is a Mitchell unit. Several are in service in Nz & they seem to go well

In my '38 super 8 I have one of Phil Hills 3.35 : 1 back ends ( in a 1935 super 8 diff) and a 1939 super 8 gearbox with overdrive. The late 30s ones are on 16 in wheels & with the original 4.67:1 diff were doing 3000 rpm at 60mph - not good!

Mine now is 2200rpm in top & 1750rpm in O/D at 60mph

A little less get up & go & you need to use the gears on hills but ex for motorway cruising

To mate a '39 box to a '38 or earlier you need a '39 super 8 bell housing & they don't grow on trees!

The Mitchell's come in several ratios and are robust. Find them on the net

Good luck!

Mike

P s I think they are about $2.5k

P s I think they are about $2.5k

Thanks for your help I will post when I get one.

I got mine from Lloyd Young in Canal Winchester Ohio but don't know of he is still selling them. His are modified r11 units. Works great.

Phil Bray has passed away and ORF Manufacturing is now owned by Ed Linn. I gave him a set of gears for my 1930 Cadillac Jan. 24 this year I still have no gears or my own gears back. I have called many times leaving messages with no return calls. I found a shop in Oshawa Ont. Canada www.oshawagear.ca that can make most gears. If you are in the US you save 12% $$ exchange. Oshawa Gear was recommended to me by Longfields Restorations who uses them for all their gear work.

G&K machine in Denver does nice gear work too.

Lloyd Young IS still doing Overdrive Units.

He is in Canal-Winchester, Ohio, as suburb of Columbus.

I visited briefly with him a few weeks ago during the Lebanon, TN Dual Meet. He was set up in a Flea Market space, and can be reached at:

(614) 837-7832