Class 5D to pedal or not to pedal

So as I am starting in on a 1919 Briggs and Stratton Motor Wheel on a 1915 Hawthorne Flyer bicycle and started looking at the competition at Hershey. One of the vehicles - which recieved its Repeat Preservation was a 100 cc 1978 Suzuki scooter/minibike. The vehicle had no pedals and clearly was not a moped as the owner had written in the model category. For reference it was a 1978 Suzuki M50. Am I confused as to the classing of this vehicle?? Doesn't it have to have pedals to be in 5D?? How can I be expected to compete with bikes that are 60 years younger?? I know - vehicle is judged on its own merits, not in comparison but it seems hard enough against the other bicycle based entries - Whizzers, Powerbikes, Cyclo-motors, et al, much less a factory original vehicle that was manufactured as a small motorcycle and has very different specifications and parts availability. I Hope this doesn't come off as a stupid question and it's not that I'm trophy obsessed, just want to know if it would be smarter for me to show my '81 Honda Passport instead of bothering to bring back a truly neat vehicle.:eek:

So I guess I asked the question not worth answering!!:eek: I am not trying to be whiny (it comes naturally) but just trying to ascertain if this could be a freak repeat wrong class assignment or is this class that wide in scope. should I just going to shortchange the restoration, go DPC and try to be competitive somewhere else:( or????

I have looked at the guidelines twice and it sure seems like it was put into the wrong class.

Have you contacted Herb Oakes to ask him about this?

Sam,

This is not my area of expertise. I have zero experience with two wheeled vehicles in AACA. I do not know what AACA's definition of a moped is. That is really the information that will be needed before anyone can decide if the vehicle in question was in the correct or incorrect class.

The definition of a moped is probably a little bit more complex than you might think. For example, when what I generally think of as a moped came out, they all had pedals and in my state, the state law defined a moped as having operable pedals. Years later, the manufacturers stopped producing that style of moped. In my state, the legal definition of a moped has been changed and it no longer requires pedals.

Susan is right, you really should ask Herb Oakes.

no I thought I'd ask - see if I was crazy (or crazier) - the DF first. I don't want to cause a stink and surely wouldn't want to censure the owner, just trying to see what I should do when I get put in the same class. Is there a recourse at the show field?? do I just have to stomp and pout or is there a process once the vehicle is on the field??

I would ask Herb now. The "stomp and pout" response would be a bad idea. (I suspect you were joking... but just want to make sure).

Sam, You probably already have Herb's e-mail address. But incase you don't here it is. He is the person to sort this out for you.

herbfran@gibralter.net

sambarn, The 1978 Suzuki shown in Class 05D at Hershey was not an M50 nor was it 100cc's. It was an FZ50 model and actually only 47cc's. It does not belong to me, but I know something about them. Mopeds do not necessarily have pedals, however I think AACA should take a look at reclassifying some motorbikes. I show a 1964 Suzuki M31 which is a step-thru scooter type cycle that is only 47cc. It is registered in class 05H which makes me look funny beside huge Honda Gold Wings and full-dress Harleys. I actually think my M31 fits much better in class 05D. Here's the rub: What constitutes a moped? It varies according to different states. I think AACA should designate Class 05D to be any motorbike, moped, or motorcycle less than 100cc. I hope we can get at least some discussion going pertaining to our inquiries about class 05D.

Don't see any mention of pedals in the Judging Guidelines. My 1912 Triumph has pedals used to start the engine only - it's a motorcycle although because it has pedals, spectators sometimes think it's a "moped." Wouldn't want to try and pedal that beast! Anyway, if you think the class needs to be reorganized, Herb Oakes is the guy to talk with. He can take it to the class judging committee as needed. His contact info has already been provided.

Terry

I understand that the word MOPED has been placed on some small scooters lacking pedals but words are constantly reinvented , Classic, Survivor, Antique, Vintage... all reinterpreted but does a Packard twin six Touring car belong next to a touring model of the PT Cruiser? Mo, for motor, ped for pedal seems fairly clear. The class was originally intended to allow bicycle add on vehicles and pedal driven vehicles to not have to compete against factory made non-pedal vehicles. This of course was while your lovely suzuki was not considered anything but a not so new bike. The classes of bikes should probably be looked at but how do we seperate teens through forties-era add on motors from much newer non bike motorcycles. Although one would lean towards displacement, perhaps an era marker could also be applied as well. The Suzuki at Hershey featured items that are not found on bicycle add ons and therefore, since they cannot lose points for turn signals, headlights, wiring, starter motors, horns and often hand controls, the modern bikes actually would have the deck stacked against them. As far as judging goes would we expect the judges to know both modern era norms as well as teens era norms? The exact opposite of course would be true the other way around. The modern non pedal bikes don't have pedals, cranks, multiple chains or magnetos. A distinct advantage equal to the mopeds advantage. The layout and design of the non pedal bikes is much closer to the Gold Wings then the Whizzer/Powerbike/cycle motor class of vehicle and would be judged by standards that are more similar. I do apologize for misrepresenting the Suzuki but that says a lot. If it had been a Villiers powered moped of the forties or an early cast iron block Flottwegg or Merkle, I would have known a great deal more about it. I believe that speaks to the poor designations for the bike classes. I totally agree that a minibike class would be appropriate with the scat kitties, Rupps, Corgis, doodle bugs and the many mini-offerings from Japan but where would the non-mini, under 100 cc bikes go?? Would they be better off being judged by standards that are closer to Full size motorcycles or compared to bicycle add ons? I believe we should ask class judging to make a decision or change in the classes but what do we ask for. This is even more dificult to ask when I realize how few bikes are being shown much less how few 5E bikes are out there. Any input would be appreciated, I'd rather offer a solution than just point out a problem.

I understand that the word MOPED has been placed on some small scooters lacking pedals but words are constantly reinvented , Classic, Survivor, Antique, Vintage... all reinterpreted but does a Packard twin six Touring car belong next to a touring model of the PT Cruiser? Mo, for motor, ped for pedal seems fairly clear. The class was originally intended to allow bicycle add on vehicles and pedal driven vehicles to not have to compete against factory made non-pedal vehicles. This of course was while your lovely suzuki was not considered anything but a not so new bike. The classes of bikes should probably be looked at but how do we seperate teens through forties-era add on motors from much newer non bike motorcycles. Although one would lean towards displacement, perhaps an era marker could also be applied as well. The Suzuki at Hershey featured items that are not found on bicycle add ons and therefore, since they cannot lose points for turn signals, headlights, wiring, starter motors, horns and often hand controls, the modern bikes actually would have the deck stacked against them. As far as judging goes would we expect the judges to know both modern era norms as well as teens era norms? The exact opposite of course would be true the other way around. The modern non pedal bikes don't have pedals, cranks, multiple chains or magnetos. A distinct advantage equal to the mopeds advantage. The layout and design of the non pedal bikes is much closer to the Gold Wings then the Whizzer/Powerbike/cycle motor class of vehicle and would be judged by standards that are more similar. I do apologize for misrepresenting the Suzuki but that says a lot. If it had been a Villiers powered moped of the forties or an early cast iron block Flottwegg or Merkle, I would have known a great deal more about it. I believe that speaks to the poor designations for the bike classes. I totally agree that a minibike class would be appropriate with the scat kitties, Rupps, Corgis, doodle bugs and the many mini-offerings from Japan but where would the non-mini, under 100 cc bikes go?? Would they be better off being judged by standards that are closer to Full size motorcycles or compared to bicycle add ons? I believe we should ask class judging to make a decision or change in the classes but what do we ask for. This is even more dificult to ask when I realize how few bikes are being shown much less how few 5E bikes are out there. Any input would be appreciated, I'd rather offer a solution than just point out a problem.

Thanks for elaborating on your feelings about class 05D. Some very good points here. I can certainly see and appreciate your specialty is of very early bikes, while mine is of the 60's and up cycles. Of course we are expecting the judges to know (within reason) the differences between these vehicles whether they be from the teens or from the mid 80's. I know it has to be hard for them, but what's to do, other than make more classes? Should Mustang Cycles have 2 separate classes as they do now? I had no idea class 05D was made exclusively for pedal-only vehicles. For several years I have seen scooter-type bikes without pedals in this class. That is why I thought my 47cc Suzuki M-31 step-thru would "fit" better into that class, rather than in 05H. So this is why my bike, now in class 05H (along with other step-thru's, the Honda 90 Cubs, etc.) seem to fall into "No Man's Land." I have very recently contacted Herb Oakes about considering a class revision or at least a review of classifying such vehicles in the near future.

The National Autocycle and Cyclemotor Club in Great Britain gives these definitions to vehicles that could be called "mopeds".

Cyclemotors

The cyclemotor, or motorised bicycle, dates back to the dawn of motor cycling in the last years of the 19th century but the boom period for these machines was undoubtedly the 1950s. The cyclemotors of this period usually consisted of a small engine (under 50cc) which could be attached to a normal bicycle. The positions used by different manufacturers were many and various: above the front wheel, above, alongside or inside the rear wheel, or between the pedals are typical examples. The final drive was often a roller rubbing on the bicycle tyre but other, more positive, transmissions were used. A photo of a 1955 Rex Cyclemotor.

Autocycles

The autocycle is a lightweight motor cycle with pedals, very similar to the mopeds of more recent years. The autocycle was developed between the wars and, by the mid-1930s, had adopted a design that changed very little until the end of production in the mid-1950s. Autocycles are usually powered by 98cc engines; most examples used the Villiers Junior, Junior de-Luxe or 2F engines. The most notable exceptions to this were the Cyc-Auto and the Excelsior Autobyk, which used their own make of engine, and the HEC, which was powered by a Levis engine. Because of the universal design it can often be difficult to differentiate between different manufacturers' machines. A photo of a 1956 New Hudson Autocycle.

Mopeds

The moped is a motor cycle with an under-50cc engine. The first mopeds were equipped with pedals but legal definitions of the moped have changed over the years and nowadays encompass almost any under 50cc motor cycle. Mopeds originated on the continent in the mid-1950s and soon ousted their predecessors, the autocycles and cyclemotors, from the market place. A photo of a 1964 NSU Quick 50.