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NEW LAWS EFFECTING OUR CARS IN CALIFORNIA


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In California we have a law that has already passed called AB32 (Greenhouse gas bill). This November we as voters have a chance to roll back this carbon emission bill until our state reaches 5.5% unemployment or less with a yes vote on AB23. If AB 32 goes into effect it will touch everyone in the state, but the regulators will be particularly looking at things they have never regulated for testing, and that includes old cars, motorcycles, and more industry regulation (as if we don't have enough of industry running away).

We also have another bill in regards to vehicle registration. Seems the state parks are in such bad shape that the regulators have a bill- AB21 to raise registration on every car another $18.00 to help pay for the parks. That is the fourth rise in registration fees in two years.

One week ago the EPA gave the go ahead for 15% ethanol for all of us. I gon't know which grade of gasoline will get the axe so that it can be sold. I can't see the retailers adding another pump and tanks for the new fuel so somethings got to go.

Remember people what happens in California (emission regulations) usually ends up in your state eventually.

Don

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Still not good news. There is no way introducing 15% ethanol is good for this hobby, or for anyone with older cars, boats, or power equipment. It is only a matter of time before that is the "standard fare"; and I would prefer not to run it in my new vehicles either, for that matter.

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I urge you all to read www.accdefender.org and get the facts, also there is numerious articles from magazines such as Popular Hot rodding and organizations such as association of California Car Clubs who support the bill and the reason why.

Don

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  • 2 weeks later...

Yes Dave, I bet your happy. Now that the new governor is a dem. and the house and senate are dem. controlled plus a proposition just passed so that you only need a simple majority to pass a budget. There won't be any checks and balances. Quite a mess for some of us. I retired four years ago, just finished remodeling my house and just wanted to finish off life here. Now it looks like we will have to move to another state and start that all over. Businesses will go too. BTW I'm a registered dem. Looking forward to another war between the states, this time it will be over freedom.

D.

PS I knew you would rub it in.

Edited by helfen (see edit history)
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Guest Dean_H.

AB32 allows C.A.R.B. (California air Resource Board) to do what ever is necessary to lower carbon dioxide output. They are not concerned about businesses or peoples livelihood to achieve their goals. Only the latest equipment is allowed on construction sites, farms, trucking, backup generators, etc. C.A.R.B. offers to subsidize new equipment for businesses. For me, they are offering about twenty grand towards a new seventy thousand dollar backhoe. It's sort of like cash for clunkers, the old backhoe must be permanently taken out of service. Unfortunately I still can't afford it and end up quitting. Big corporations that buy new equipment anyway, are doing pretty well now that the taxpayer is helping purchase their equipment. The little guy is getting squeezed out.

C.A.R.B. is aggressively going after fireplaces, small engines, dairy cows, ...anything that emits carbon dioxide. Our old cars will be in the cross hairs very soon. I personally believe like helfin, this will lead to civil unrest and riots. There is a lot of anger out here.

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I'll say this again....to this day there isn't a single incidence of mention of anything like a clunker program for cars in the Act, in the regulations, in the proposed regulations, or even in the comments section for California's Global Warming Solutions Act of 2006. There may be one in the future, but it's very unlikely to be anything more than what has already been done at the Federal level last year (with the same exemptions for antique cars, or probably better). No American government can take legal private property from citizens (except real estate in cases of eminent domain only) or declare property illegal retroactively. If CARB tried the entire enterprise would collapse. The best they can do is offer enticements, like clunker programs.

Yes, businesses are another matter, for now. However with the recent Supreme Court giving First Amendment rights to corporations that may change, especially if a few more political-types find themselves as judges on the Court.

The anger is from the uninformed, and the uninformed are constantly cultivated by groups that financially benefit from the confusion that results. And now many of them have First Amendment rights and can finance propaganda secretly. The next group that sounds like Americans for a Better Tomorrow could be the voice of Haliburton or al Quaeda for all anyone knows. There will be a Glenn Beck for every issue before too long.:(

=============

BTW, dairy cows don't "emit" CO2 any more than you or I do. They process biomaterial into CO2 like every other living thing.

CARB is "going after" dairy cows because they emit methane, which is also a greenhouse gas (but that's not why CARB's targeting dairy methane either). If contained and processed methane becomes a biofuel, helping to offset real CO2 emissions from fossil fuels. The dairy cow efforts are there to try and derive benefit, not mitigate or eliminate emissions.

If you're interested, be informed. All it takes is a google search.:)

Edited by Dave@Moon
typo (see edit history)
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AB32 allows C.A.R.B. (California air Resource Board) to do what ever is necessary to lower carbon dioxide output. They are not concerned about businesses or peoples livelihood to achieve their goals. Only the latest equipment is allowed on construction sites, farms, trucking, backup generators, etc. C.A.R.B. offers to subsidize new equipment for businesses. For me, they are offering about twenty grand towards a new seventy thousand dollar backhoe. It's sort of like cash for clunkers, the old backhoe must be permanently taken out of service. Unfortunately I still can't afford it and end up quitting. Big corporations that buy new equipment anyway, are doing pretty well now that the taxpayer is helping purchase their equipment. The little guy is getting squeezed out.

C.A.R.B. is aggressively going after fireplaces, small engines, dairy cows, ...anything that emits carbon dioxide. Our old cars will be in the cross hairs very soon. I personally believe like helfin, this will lead to civil unrest and riots. There is a lot of anger out here.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dean, I understand fully what your talking about. My neighbor owns a excavation and shoring company who is about to go out of business too. he cant afford new equipment at this time because business is so slow, plus he stuck with unusable equipment. The only way he can get rid of the equipment is to unload it to Mexico which just shifts the pollution down there. The other bad part about this is when new people wanted to break into business they were the people who bought the old equipment because as you know starting up is costly, but that was how they got their foot in the door. As you say most of the big companies can absorb some of this cost because of the money they get from the government and that part bothers little old taxpayer-ME.

Another friend who owns a surfboard business wanted to retire and sell both the retail and the factory. He can't unload the business because he's grandfathered in his factory's location and a new owner can't buy it because of emissions.

I have another friend located in the L.A. area who does chrome plating and he would like to retire and sell the business. He is grandfathered in too so he's stuck with all this equipment and a business that he can't sell.

Yes, California's cap & trade is great. It's hard enough to survive even in good times. Equipment, payroll, taxes,permits,insurance, and now government standing on your back. Good luck Ca. you'll need it. This is what happens in a state when you've tipped the balance from makers to takers. 150 billion in the whole and counting. Angry? are you kidding? The takers certainly are not.

Don

Edited by helfen (see edit history)
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I had a "E" mail from the forum that "jdome" had responded to the thread. I read the message and did not find his response offensive, only the truth. If anyone thinks I'm kidding just come out here and live in this mess. What I do find offensive is someone who tries to pull the wool over peoples eyes to see what is really going on. So a thanks for the delete! whoever you are.

These things not only effect how much our electricity will cost, or how many jobs are lost, or that or manufacturing base is going away. It also effects our hobby. It all relates.

Don

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Don FYI I had responded to this thread and deleted my post because it really bordered on political rant rather than car related. Suffice to say I understand fully what you are going through and am equally concerned.

Placing blind trust in these agencies to distinguish the old car hobby from true environmental threats is not a good idea, IMO. Keeping active and informed is the best way to do it; if they get put on notice that organized voters are watching, that is really your best defense. Keep us posted.

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Placing blind trust in these agencies to distinguish the old car hobby from true environmental threats is not a good idea, IMO. Keeping active and informed is the best way to do it; if they get put on notice that organized voters are watching, that is really your best defense. Keep us posted.

That is the common ground that will work. It is why the Federal program last year accepted only 1984 and newer vehicles. It is why SEMA's lobbying of the Feds on that issue worked. And that is why nobody has said the "c" word (clunker program) with regard to this bill yet.

Environmentalists are in essence preservationists, just like most of us. You'd be amazed how many professional environmental scientists have antique cars! As soon as people hear that their actions are going to be destroying legitimate history, there is a lot more acceptance of the consequences to preserving it and a lot more attention to how small (or big) those consequences may be.

Pretending/denying that there are no consequences to any action is a futile and ultimately self-destructive course of action. You simply can't defend antique cars by saying that what does come out of the tailpipe is harmless. It's not, and our understanding of how detrimental those emissions are and have been grows every day.

We don't have a lot to fear from efforts to preserve the planet. We have a lot to lose if we act like we do!

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Agree - collaboration makes a lot of sense. It is a question of education (at 47 I guess I am getting up there?! - I see a lot of politicians now in office younger who may not know much about the hobby) as well as organization. Organized, informed groups tend to protect their interests best no matter what the issue is. All is not lost yet...

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Agree - collaboration makes a lot of sense. It is a question of education (at 47 I guess I am getting up there?! - I see a lot of politicians now in office younger who may not know much about the hobby) as well as organization. Organized, informed groups tend to protect their interests best no matter what the issue is. All is not lost yet...

Here in Ca. our kids and great grand kids were indoctrinated into the enviromental movement long ago in the public schools. Now that the great grand kids have got two little ones I wonder how they will be taught. I know from our kids they were taught that cars, oil companies, electric power plants ect. are bad. I know this because they told us so. Plus they have no interest in old cars at all. As far as that goes their minds are toast. A fellow surfing (riding waves surfing) friend invited me to a campout with a surfing organization whose purpose is the dedication to preserving, protecting,enjoyment of the worlds oceans,waves and beaches. At the end of the day they had a big weeine roast and the leaders started spilling the propaganda about how bad the oil companies, car companies, electric power companies are to all the kids. As the camp leaders and all adults all took turns with their stories they got to me. This old veteran of over fifty years of surfing had to remind them that they had just driven 100 miles in their cars, and that the resin and foam in their surfboards are made from petroleum products, plus when they get home the next day from driving their car, I was sure they would like to wash their dirty clothes and take a warm shower and possibly turn on a light bulb nad sit down to watch tv. And by the way put out that smoky fire pit you've got there because your putting out too much carbon. They looked a me like I was from Mars!

Before I retired I was on the community advisory board for a major oil company in my city. The advisory board lets the company know what the concerns of the citizenry are, we are all volunteers from our city. This major oil company donates it's time, money to our schools, police and fire departments plus scolarships for the greater good of our community. It also provides jobs. I was talking to the plant manager about this little surfing trip and suggested that they start getting into the classrooms to teach the other side of the story before it's too late.

The cars clubs that I belong or have belonged to all have the same problem. It's recruitment of young people. Geesh, I wonder why?

Don

Edited by helfen (see edit history)
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