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WWII (1943-1944) Production Figures Question


X-Frame

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OK... I have seen in books but no where online yet, figures concerning the few "manufactured" automobiles during the production freeze of 1943-1945. In particular, the auto industry says there were 139 cars built in 1943 and 610 built in 1944. These would not be the 1941-42 commandeered carryovers.

Does anyone know the make and models of these few rare vehicles?

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West, that is what I am trying to find out... make and models. the chart I have was from the Automobile Manufacturers Association and even gave the dollar amount for the worth of these odd year cars... (1943) 139 made at $102,000 and (1944) 610 made at $447,000. In comparison 1945 I haven't heard them making any except the start of the 1946 model year and a total of 69,532 made at $57,255,000. These are "model year" and not calendar year from what I remember (don't have the book in front of me right now but figures were written down).

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See that is the problem. There were 1941 and 1942 models left over before the car sale freeze, that the military took over for staff cars and "titled" them as 1943-1944-1945 models. These were the "black out models" made towards the end.

But these I am asking about were "built" brand new during the freeze. Something in the back of my head says some may have been from Packard but I do believe that Chevrolet may have actually made new vehicles during those freeze years but the only company?

War Department document TM-9-2800 from 1943 authorized certain light and heavy cars for staff use.. the light ones were Chevrolet, Ford, Plymouth... while the heavy ones were Packard and Buick. But most all of these were those leftover vehicles repainted for military use.

Eric

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What I am saying is Ford was authorized to build a limited number of cars and pickup trucks in 1943, 1944 and 1945. These were for official use by military or other government agencies, or sold to certain individuals whose job was considered vital to the war effort such as doctors and veterinarians.

This is purely from memory and may be based on rumor. But if I was trying to track down what you are trying to track down, I would start the search with Ford.

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By the start of WWII, all surviving car makers must have been building their cars on moving assembly lines using heavy-duty specialized tooling. Did they really keep this stuff set up, but mothballed, all through the war so it would be available to build a handful of needed cars? That seems like a huge waste of space.

Gil Fitzhugh, Morristown, NJ

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Where there is a will there is a way. Some years back I saw a description of Chrysler Corps experimental and testing department. They had a complete miniature foundry, metal stamping, painting etc facility in fact the head of the department remarked they had an assembly line that could turn out 7 cars per day.

If there was a need for a few hundred cars they could have been built up or assembled from spare parts in stock.

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Ford is supposedly the first company to resume building cars and this started about June of 1945 and actually before Japan surrendered. I was always of the belief that any cars sold during 1943-1944 were left over 1942 cars built before production was stopped in February of 1942. We have to remember that production lines were converted to building war materials and military vehicles and I can't imagine building shells or military trucks and cars on the same production line.

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We worked on a Ford fire truck that was purchased new in 1944 by our fire dept and is titled as such. No chrome anywhere and some of the parts, such as the carb, use a different numbering system than their civilian counterpart. The Serial # also identifies it as a 1944 model. Presumably if they could build trucks they could build cars, likely with leftover parts.

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Fred Crismon's book U.S. Military Wheeled Vehicles (Crestline Series) says that Packard was building blackout versions of the Clipper "as late as 1943" for the U.S. Army. It's probable that the big 3 were also making limited numbers of staff cars as needed, probably hand assembled.

Also I believe that some of these "cars" may have been chassis units made for military and civilian ambulances, for which there would have been a great need throughout the war.

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All existing stocks of unsold cars were commandeered by the government and put into warehouses in early 1942 when production stopped.

These cars were rationed out to civilian and military users as necessary for the war effort.

Some time ago there was a long thread on a Packard bbs about the "atomic Packard", a Packard limousine used by the Los Alamos laboratories. It was recently salvaged from a junkyard and restored.

This car was one of several hundred converted by the Fitzjohn bus company. They made airport limousines out of Chevrolets before the war, during the war they made similar cars out of Chevrolet, Pontiac and Packard cars. These were used for bus type service in various war plants.

“In mid-1942, the US Army contracted with Fitz John Coach of Michigan to take 100 Packard Clipper Sixes from government stockpiled reserves and convert them into economy-style eight door stretch “Civilian stretch transports.” These were to be similar to pre-war conversions that FitzJohn had built largely on GM Chassis. The war-era conversion had been done with what was available, including wood parts except for the metal frame extension. This would prove to be the largest single group of any type APLs [Airport Limousines] built. There is evidence that FitzJohn later converted some government Chevrolets into APLs in 1943. Some saw service in Los Alamos, New Mexico, and likely in diverse places such as Hanford, Washington, and Oak Ridge, Tennessee, where large government projects (related to the Manhattan Project) were set up in unimproved wilderness areas, which became new cities. This is not to be confused with several large direct-to-Packard military orders for 1941 and 1942 Packards for staff, general use vehicles and a number of Henney ambulances and hearses. These Packards included all types of models, many being non-Clipper One Twenties and Super-8s for the Army and Navy. Some Clippers were included and found service as staff cars for the most famous military leaders of the war.”

So it appears that they used up existing stocks of vehicles, and made a few hundred more, probably assembled from spare parts left over when the assembly lines shut down.

Here is the full thread on the Atomic Packard at the National Museum of Nuclear Science and Industry.

Packard Motor Car Information - National Museum of Nuclear Science & History Packard Limo (aka It's an Atomic Packard!) [Packard Forums - Pre-War (1899-1942)]

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  • 1 year later...
Guest Benjamin Wilson

I recently bought a 44 chevy pickup that was built for thr U S Army. It may have been one of the last 1/2 ton trucks built with that body style. Question; Is it wrong to build this truck with a Hotrod frame and Chevy motor? I can't really drive it with that antiquated running gear. I will keep the body as stock as possible...

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I can't really drive it with that antiquated running gear.

Why? Are you going to make a daily driver/commuter car out of it? Why do so many old cars/trucks have to be the 2002 Chevy S10 people really want?

Most antique truck owners (as far as I've been able to tell) like to add an overdrive or 2 speed differential to the truck to make it more roadable over 50 mph. That's usually enough to make a truck like this safely run with traffic when it has to. Going full hot rod on this rare vehicle is effectively destroying it's historical value, and much of the financial value related to that. If you're gong to drop it on a custom frame with a generic V8 drivetrain, why keep the body stock? Keeping even a semblence of original appearance to a hot rod is just playing dress-up, it's not real (any more).

Antique cars are fun precisely because they are not fully capable new cars. You can have a he!! of a lot of fun at 35 mph, or be bored stiff at 75 mph. It's all a matter of how you percieve the activity. People often ask me how fast my (Triumph) sports cars are, and the truth is that most V8 station wagons are faster. No station wagon is 1/2 the fun, however.

When you have a slow vehicle (within reason) you have the challenge of driving it to it's fullest extent much of the time (again, within reason). If your car can do 120 mph and you can't, like practically anything off of today's showroom floor, where's the fun?:confused:

Edited by Dave@Moon
typo (see edit history)
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England declared war on Germany in September 1939. Canada followed suit one week later. The US kept out of the war for 2 long years, until the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor in December 1941.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I always wondered why and how England, France could get around doing that.:confused:

D.

Edited by helfen (see edit history)
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Guest Oracle

I can give you chapter and verse on Austin/Morris/Standard/Woleseley in the Austin Motors and Nuffield Groups for the UK if required and can confirm that car production continued into 1942 in some cases including GM subsidiary Vauxhalls that built 2548 cars for the Ministry of Supply. In addition we know that Rootes Groups subsidary Humber supplied handfuls of limousines for the Government and military top brass.

Now, as regards Canada I have seen a photo of the last Ford civvy car built in Windsor and it was a Mercury but cannot recall what date was on it! I think it was April 1942 but will check another source. It can thus be seen that Canada stopped assembly after the US.

As regards GM of Canada, I can tell you that Regina, Sask., closed down as of July 1 1941 to become a munitions plant, which left Oshawa to continue vehicle production. I know the last 1942 cars were Chevies and the last 1942 MY serial was 06028. The last civilian car was a model 1211 built Saturday morning February 28th 1942, which went straight into the Government-frozen pool...perhaps going to a doctor or police department or even the military in due course. There may then have been a few military cars that were built until June 1942. We know that civvy truck production for essential users recommenced in 1943 and then again in 1944. Civvy truck production started again in 1945.

The first 1946 model produced was on October 30th 1945 and the 4-door sedan was driven off the line by a veteran. The trouble was that that conicided more or less with the Auto workers' strike that spread from Dearborn to Detroit and across into Canada!

Edited by Oracle (see edit history)
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Guest rsd9699

I have read that Pontiac ambulances were produced in limited numbers during 43 and 44. By late 44 - the war in Europe was considered won and they started getting ready for the 45's, but the Japan war stretched on so they became 46's.

Ron

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Guest Bill K.

"X-Frame" and I are researching the use of X-frames in cars, and we've uncovered a great deal of data. His desire to find out about 1943-44-45 cars concerns discovering if they perhaps used different chassis, which they did not. I, however, study the war period for all manufacturers the world over in terms of vehicle (especially car and light truck) production, and have an interest in this subject in and of itself.

The A.M.A. describes the 139 and 610 U.S. cars (make unknown) sold during 1943 and 1944, respectively, as cars held in factory storage, and not actually built then. There were an additional number sold from March to December 1942, and during the first half of 1945. The post-February 1942 number is unknown (but is included in the industry-wide 1942 total), but the early-1945 number was found in another source, and is an even 700. (The 69,532 1945 total includes this.) Keep in mind these paltry figures describe cars shipped from the factory during this time, only. There were another circa 500,000 brand-spanking-new 1942-built cars held in dealer storage facilities. These were doled out to essential civilian users (and surely the military got to dip into this pool) during the war years. Some states titled vehicles by calendar year of sale, so some can be considered 1943, 1944, and 1945 cars by virtue of their registrations and titles. From March to December 1942, some 220,000 new cars were registered in the U.S. The 1943 figure is about 200,000. For 1944, the number dropped to circa 65,000. During the first half of 1945, just under 8,000 were registered.

(Sources: Automobile Facts and Figures, 1949 edition; The American Automobile, by John Rae; several issues of Ward's)

Now, having said that, there were indeed passenger cars actually built during the war years in the U.S., for the military/gov't. The only manufacturer for which I have detailed data is Ford. These vehicles were assembled from parts in stock between March 1942 and summer 1945. They were essentially covered by 9 contracts, but there were several small orders during the war:

12,177 Fordor sedans for the U.S. Gov't (painted in olive drab)

104 Ford Tudor sedans for the Justice Dept. (painted in black)

138 Mercury Fordor sedans for the U.S. Navy (painted in olive drab)

200 Ford Deluxe station wagons for the U.S. Navy (painted in olive drab)

3,500 4 X 4 1/2-ton pickups for the U.S. Gov't

(In addition, From February 1942 to March 1942, there were 12,420 1/2-ton gov't/military pickups made, probably standard Ford vehicles. From November 1941 to March 1942, there were 10,476 gov't/military automobiles made, probably standard Ford vehicles.)

(Source: Ford in the Service of America, by Tim O'Callaghan)

It should be noted also that Ford cars of North American design were still being assembled in various countries later than one might assume; Brazil and Sweden, for example, show a trickle of production and deliveries during the entire war. Japan and Denmark register some deliveries during 1940. Fords of British and Continental European origin were also assembled in various places during the conflict.

(Source: Ford documents obtained from Benson Ford Research Center)

Chevrolet also built sedans and coupes during the same period, for the military, but I haven't found figures. Packard apparently supplied some 400 staff cars from 1940 through 1943, and another circa 2,500 Clippers were available to the military during 1943-44-45 from cars held in stock. Oldsmobile appears to have built some wagons during the same period. Cadillac likely assembled some cars for military staff use from late-1942 thru early-1945.

(Sources: U.S. Wheeled Military Vehicles, by Fred Crismon; American Car Spotter's Bible, by Tad Burness; Historic Military Vehicles Directory, by Bart Vanderveen; GM 100 Years, by Richard Langworth; Setting the Pace: Oldsmobile's First 100 Years, by Helen Jones Earley and James Walkinshaw; Cadillac expert Walt McCall)

There were also conversions of new, unsold passenger cars to wagons for war workers by Cantrell, Hercules-Campbell, etc. Monart Motors converted a number of new, in-stock, Fords and Mercurys to wagons during the 1942-43-44 period. A few professional-car builders are said to have made some ambulances during the war years from new cars and chassis in stock. Siebert, in particular, boasted that it had enough cars on hand to continue a trickle of ambulance production during the entire war. Another poster mentioned Pontiac ambulances having been built in 1943 and 1944 -- this likely occurred in the same way.

(Sources: several books by professional-car experts Tom McPherson, Walt McCall, and Gregg Merksamer; several publications on station wagons and woodies; coachbuilt.com)

Speaking of Pontiacs, there are figures available as to the sales of new Pontiacs taken from storage during the war years:

1943 = 12,681

1944 = 4,726

1945 = 1,330

(Source: Pontiac expert John "Gunner" Gunnell)

For General Motors, I have industry-wide worldwide sales totals:

1942 - 101,586 Passenger Cars (348,806 Total Cars and Trucks)

1943 - 708 Passenger Cars (194,144)

1944 - 79 Passenger Cars (317,032)

1945 - 24,331 Passenger Cars (308,044)

(Source: Christo Datini of GM Media Archives)

In Canada, passenger cars were still being built as late as 1942 for sure, despite Canada having been on a war footing since 1939. Industry-wide production totals show small numbers being turned out for every month save August during 1942. As David pointed out, Chevrolets seem to have been built till June for the military, and Ford produced the last official car (a Mercury) in April. However, a small number of Fords and Mercs were sold during 1943-44-45; it is unsure if they were taken from storage or actually built then, since 18% of the factory was set aside for production for civilian needs:

1943 Ford military cars: 18

1943 Ford civilian cars: 7

1943 Mercury military cars: 1

1944 Ford civilian cars: 12

1944 Mercury civilian cars: 1

1945 Ford civilian cars: 20

1945 Mercury civilian cars: 1

Chrysler Canada sales sheets show a small number of cars sold mainly for export during 1943 and 1944, for all divisions. The 1942 sheets show sales for civilians, export sales, and military "war car" sales (these were still being sold late in the year). No cars are shown for 1945; only trucks.

It should be noted that circa 4,500 Canadian cars of all makes were put into a reserve pool, and were doled out during the war years (sometimes, as in the U.S., being registered as new cars of the years in which they were sold). The last "pool" car was delivered in October 1945.

(Sources: various issues of Ward's; GM expert David Hayward; Cars of Canada by Durnford and Baechler; Canadian Car ID Numbers by Bill Watson; Ford of Canada and Chrysler Canada sales documents in my possession)

Edited by Bill K.
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  • 6 years later...
1 hour ago, tom M LITTLEONE said:

i have a 1945 ford coupe ,its all custom chev motor body and frame are original very pretty ,i keep getting told that there is no such car all i can say is your wrong.

This response is useless and without any merit without pictures, especially of the serial numbers and body tags. It's quite simple to state that you have something without some proof that would indicate that  "your" correct

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Any car built during the war years would have to have been HAND BUILT---the production lines had been TOTALLY converted over to tanks, airplanes, and other military material. I lived through it and it seems few today understand what TOTAL war effort is. No gas, no meat, no tires, no ready made cigarettes, save every can, collect milkweed down for life jackets, steel pennies in 1943, and firms like Singer Sewing Machines and Ithaca Shot Guns switched over to 45 hand guns. We don't want to go through that ever again. The local veterinarian  got a new 1944 Chevy pickup,actually a held over 42, since unpaved country roads used up trucks in a hurry and the animals the vets cared for were essential to the war effort. The whole town turned out just to stare at it.

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On orders from the U.S. Government, Ford built and sent, 1944 2-Door Sedans to a company called Schult Trailer Co. in Middlebury Indiana, to be converted into "Auxiliary Ambulance and Carryall units. The exact number is not known but one survivor, #SW-63 exists, so we know that at least 63 were built. I don't know if these are included in your totals.

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9 hours ago, tom M LITTLEONE said:

i have a 1945 ford coupe ,its all custom chev motor body and frame are original very pretty ,i keep getting told that there is no such car all i can say is your wrong.

 

You need to find some out of the way place on the car to put a tiny flaw or an obviously incorrect part. That will always capture their attention. Even little old ladies in the grocery store parking lot. The Chevy swap is too common. Maybe a little scratch from a screwdriver next to the license plate bolt. They will kneel down and touch it (touch is the only sense they trust) and say "Whaaaat's thaaaaat?"

 

Are you getting the authoritative types or the whiny ones?

 

Create a diversion.

Bernie

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  • 8 months later...

My grandmother had a Hudson, 4 door car bought (I believe) in 1944 or 1945.  The odd thing a out it was that the dash had a radio that was from another company (Ford I think)  and the steering wheel had a Chevy emblem.   I was 12 at the time it was sold in 1964, so my memory of what the companies were might be incorrect, but I remember they were not Hudson. My grandmother said they were original to the car.   She told us that after the war, the manufacturers would use whatever parts they could get. Has anybody else heard of something like this? I know she said she got the car a little cheaper when she bought it because of the different manufacturers.

 

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  • 10 months later...

There is some discussion concerning cars made in the US during the war to which I can only add ,for what it is worth, this note. I was born in 1937 and my father was a physician working in a large city although we lived about 25 miles in the country. There were new US cars available to some needed professions such as doctors, firemen, policemen, etc. so I would always accompany him during the war to the local Chevy dealership to buy a new one. At that time the dealer was closed to the public but a rep was a phone call away and he would meet my father and I at a large storage facility where I could sit in the cars while the purchase was made. There were rows upon rows of new cars with various colors although most were black.

Someone has posted that TOTAL war effort implied no gas, no meat, no tires which is simply taking things much too far - Gas, meat, tires were certainly available to anyone although on a restricted basis which is what the ration booklet was used for and the letter decal for the windshield  - think about it - if there had been NO gas there would have been no auto collisions and I accompanied my father to quite a few wrecks as he would sometimes arrive at such a scene before the ambulance.

After I turned 18 or so my father also noted that not only did the public at large suffer to various degrees during the war but also the hookers income diminished somewhat.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Have just acquired an original 1942 Ford tudor sedan blackout. Have the serial number but no title. How is the most accurate way to determine the production date ?  It is in poor but restorable condition. It appears to be originally painted black (not an olive drab car), so I'm guessing it was one of the last civilian production cars or possible one of the 104 wartime production cars for the Justice Dept. Plan to restore to as original as possible. There is no "Deluxe" or "Super Deluxe" plaque so I'm guessing that it is a Special. Not sure. It does have a radio antenna located at center top  of roof. Any information would be helpful. Thanks, Jim H.

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On 3/23/2019 at 2:00 AM, Historyfan said:

My grandmother had a Hudson, 4 door car bought (I believe) in 1944 or 1945.  The odd thing a out it was that the dash had a radio that was from another company (Ford I think)  and the steering wheel had a Chevy emblem.   I was 12 at the time it was sold in 1964, so my memory of what the companies were might be incorrect, but I remember they were not Hudson. My grandmother said they were original to the car.   She told us that after the war, the manufacturers would use whatever parts they could get. Has anybody else heard of something like this? I know she said she got the car a little cheaper when she bought it because of the different manufacturers.

 

Did she buy the car new? If not it seems likely the car was repaired with whatever parts were handy, repair parts were in short supply during the war too. Not so much radios. There was a story on a vintage radio site about an unusual type of radio made during WW2. It seems that in 1942 a radio manufacturer was stuck with a large supply of car radios they made for Chrysler but when the government suspended car manufacturing, Chrysler cancelled the order. To get rid of them the radio company made a run of end tables with built in radios using the Chrysler radios with a 120 volt transformer in place of the vibrator  set in a wooden end table.

 

https://content.invisioncic.com/r277599/monthly_06_2013/post-40694-143141939766.jpg

Edited by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)
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On ‎9‎/‎17‎/‎2010 at 4:22 AM, Restorer32 said:

We worked on a Ford fire truck that was purchased new in 1944 by our fire dept and is titled as such. No chrome anywhere and some of the parts, such as the carb, use a different numbering system than their civilian counterpart. The Serial # also identifies it as a 1944 model. Presumably if they could build trucks they could build cars, likely with leftover parts.

Ford also built some city transit buses during the war years.   http://www.barp.ca/photo_index2.html

 

Craig

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  • 3 weeks later...

Just recently acquired an original 1942 "Blackout" Ford Tudor sedan; It is poor but restorable condition. Looking for information on Ford production data in '42. Bill K. posted some very good information in Oct. 2011. If Bill K. (or any one else) happens to see my inquiry and has more specific information on '42 Ford Tudor blackouts , please give me some advise on where to search. 

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