Jump to content

World War 2 automobiles


Guest Bill K.

Recommended Posts

Guest Bill K.

Hello, all:

I'm a newbie to the forums here, but not to the AACA, nor to classic cars or automotive history. For nearly 15 years, I've been researching the obscure and poorly documented World War 2 era, in terms of car production, sales, deliveries, and new registrations, for every make of car in the world. I've amassed quite a lot of data on most foreign makes, but it's the good old U. S. of A. that is giving me the most trouble! There is simply very little data on the period between February 1942 and July 1945, when car production and sales were suspended (supposedly).

Aside from the production of Chevrolet and Ford military sedans and coupes, which appear to have been made throughout the entire war (and were registered as new cars of the years they were built or delivered in), and possibly the assembly of Cadillac staff cars, Packard staff cars and ambulances, and Oldsmobile wagons (data obtained from brief mentionings in books on these 2 makes), there doesn't appear to have been much other car-building going on. I wonder about Plymouth, since they were one of the Big Three, and 1941-1942 sedans were certainly built for the military.

It is certain that when car production was suspended in February 1942, a reserve pool of about 500,000 new 1942 cars was set aside, to be doled out to essential civilian users, government officials, and also the military during the subsequent years. Many states titled cars by year of sale, so some 1943-1944-1945 models exist, by virtue of their titles. I have unearthed data that shows 139 passenger cars were sold from factory stocks in 1943; 610 in 1944; and 700 in 1945 (before 1946-model production began in summer). The vast majority of the cars sold, however, came from dealer stocks.

Between March and December 1942, roughly 220,000 new cars were first registered, and these do not include military sales. The figure was about 200,000 for all of 1943. It plummeted to circa 65,000 in 1944. From January to July 1945, it was just under 8,000. Unfortunately, I don't have any breakdowns by make save for Pontiac. (I also have some figures on military Fords of this time.)

Is anyone else interested in this period? Does anyone have data to share? Does anyone seek any data I might have?

I think I picked a Duesy to research! :confused:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bill...Welcome to the AACA Forum.

Out of curiosity I just did an Online Catalog search of "your" AACA Library's holdings on the subject of Military Vehicles. We have a deuce and a half full of materials for researching.

Procedure:

--On the your web site's home page, you will see "Library" in the right column. (click on it)

--When site is open, in the very top right click on "Online Catalog".

--You will see "Search the AACA Library". click on it.

--3 topic areas show. I checked out "Automotive Literature" and "Automotive Reference Books" by typing in "Military Vehicles". There are many listings of various War Year periods for you to investigate.

Your Librarian, Chris Ritter can also be contacted at the Library: 717-534-2082 or critter@aacalibrary.org for direct contact.

Regards,

Peter.

Edited by Peter J.Heizmann (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bill,

Let me also say, Welcome to the AACA Discussion Forum,

I would say that I am interested in this subject but know virtually nothing about the subject. It sounds very interesting. I am sure that others here would also be interested in knowing more about your research.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I assume you are familiar with the Military Vehicle Preservation Association (MVPA). They are a fairly large organization devoted to these vehicles. Even if you're only interested in civilian production,your search should lead there.Also, are you aware that a limited number of new trucks were made available to key civilian uses during the war? Doctors,undertakers and emergency among others?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Bill K.

Thank you, everyone, for your responses, and for welcoming me. :)

Peter: I will search the online library more thoroughly when I have time. I did some searching last night. Hopefully some great stuff will turn up.

M. C. Hinson: Thanks for the interest. I will indeed be posting what I've discovered.

Dave: I am familiar with that club, but no one there had any information I didn't already have. However, this was a while ago. Perhaps I should check back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Bill K.

I was looking through Tim O'Callaghan's book, Ford in the Service of America, and there are interesting stats referring to Ford cars and pickups manufactured for the military and government during WWII.

In the appendix, the following data is given (keep in mind this is production for military and government only):

From February 1942 to March 1942, there were 12,420 1/2-ton pickups made, probably standard Ford vehicles.

From November 1941 to March 1942, there were 10,476 automobiles made, probably standard Ford vehicles.

In the chapter entitled Wheeled Vehicles, in a section entitled Civilian Type Vehicles, data is given referring to civilian-type vehicles produced after the February 10, 1942 shutdown of civilian production, stating that the passenger cars were built using parts already produced (the production of most of these vehicles was covered by 9 contracts, though there were a number of small orders throughout the war).

Thus, from 1942 (after February) through the end of the war in 1945, the following vehicles were built:

12,177 Ford Fordor sedans for the U.S. Gov't (painted in olive drab)

104 Ford Tudor sedans for the Justice Dept. (painted in black)

138 Mercury Fordor sedans for the U.S. Navy (painted in olive drab)

200 Ford Deluxe station wagons for the U.S. Navy (painted in olive drab)

3,500 4 X 4 1/2-ton pickups (civilian type) for the U.S. Gov't

Edited by Bill K. (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not exactly what you are looking for but an interesting WW2 vehicle anyway:

Packard Motor Car Information - National Museum of Nuclear Science & History Packard Limo (aka It's an Atomic Packard!) [Packard Forums - Pre-War (1899-1942)]

The Atomic Packard, a 1942 Packard Touring Sedan converted to a limousine for transport at the Los Alamos atomic research facility during WW2.

It was found in a junkyard and restored for display at a museum in New Mexico.

The thread has links to info on the Fitzjohn company, a maker of buses and converter of cars for bus type service. It gives some interesting insights on how the transportation problem was managed, and what happened to a lot of cars that were warehoused and later converted.

Edited by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Bill K.
Not exactly what you are looking for but an interesting WW2 vehicle anyway:

Packard Motor Car Information - National Museum of Nuclear Science & History Packard Limo (aka It's an Atomic Packard!) [Packard Forums - Pre-War (1899-1942)]

The Atomic Packard, a 1942 Packard Touring Sedan converted to a limousine for transport at the Los Alamos atomic research facility during WW2.

It was found in a junkyard and restored for display at a museum in New Mexico.

The thread has links to info on the Fitzjohn company, a maker of buses and converter of cars for bus type service. It gives some interesting insights on how the transportation problem was managed, and what happened to a lot of cars that were warehoused and later converted.

Quite contrarily, that is very much up my alley -- thanks for sharing this. I wasn't aware of Fitzjohn. I was aware of Cantrell, Hercules-Campbell, Derham, and Monart conversions.

I've attached scans of some clippings Tad Burness sent me 11 years ago. I still talk with him by phone from time to time. The first one is of a 1943 Derham-Dodge; the second is of a 1943 Monart-Mercury; and the last is of a factory-built 1944 Plymouth, which was actually one of the 1942 hold-overs stored and released during the war.

Professional-car conversions of the period intrigue me as well.

post-69039-143138256608_thumb.jpg

post-69039-143138256615_thumb.jpg

post-69039-143138256622_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Bill K.

This attachment contains industry-wide, new-vehicle registrations for the U.S. during the 1940-48 period, broken down by month. Cars and trucks are listed separately, and then combined. It comes from Automobile Facts and Figures, 1949 edition.

post-69039-143138256997_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 7 months later...

Bill,

I find this quest of yours very interesting. As an owner of two 1942 cars, I find documention during this time to be weak. It wasn't the priority. Dodge managed to produce around 67,377 cars for 1942 before switching over production. This is less than 1/3 the number for the year before (236,999 1941 Dodges produced). Keep in mind the new 42 models were introduced to the public around Oct of 1941. That's roughly 13,600 per month, or roughly 27,000 after Pearl Harbor. As the manufacturer's switched over to wartime production, they were allowed to finish assembling cars from componetnts that were already produced. But many of those late production cars were tied up by the government. Cars, tires, gas were all rationed. You had to prove you needed the car. As I understand, trucks of all sizes were still produced through the war because they were a necessity for transportaion and production of goods. I will look through my books to see if i have anything to add to your quest. Ron

Edited by Ron42Dodge (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Too bad production figures seem to be lost for the Ford Taunus built in Germany throughout WW2. One third of all trucks built for the Wehrmacht were Ford. Cars and trucks receiving instruction from the mother company through neutral Portugal where executives would meet.

GM Opel built 74,206 Kadett from 1937-1945-no break down for each year and war for Germany starts in 1939.

Opel Olympia 1937-1940 & 1943 is 87,214 units.

Opel Kapitain 1938-1940 & 1943 is 25,374 units

Parent GM, kept close contact with GM Opel in Germany. Opel and Ford were never nationalized by the German government.

There is a ton of various trucks built by GM Opel and other manufacturers during WW2 enough to fill pages with production #'s.

Anyone out there with production figures for Ford and GM-Vauxhall of UK,

GM Holden and Ford of Australia during WW2?

Guess it didn't matter who won as some companies were working on both sides.

Don

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
Guest Jim_Edwards
Too bad production figures seem to be lost for the Ford Taunus built in Germany throughout WW2. One third of all trucks built for the Wehrmacht were Ford. Cars and trucks receiving instruction from the mother company through neutral Portugal where executives would meet.

GM Opel built 74,206 Kadett from 1937-1945-no break down for each year and war for Germany starts in 1939.

Opel Olympia 1937-1940 & 1943 is 87,214 units.

Opel Kapitain 1938-1940 & 1943 is 25,374 units

Parent GM, kept close contact with GM Opel in Germany. Opel and Ford were never nationalized by the German government.

There is a ton of various trucks built by GM Opel and other manufacturers during WW2 enough to fill pages with production #'s.

Anyone out there with production figures for Ford and GM-Vauxhall of UK,

GM Holden and Ford of Australia during WW2?

Guess it didn't matter who won as some companies were working on both sides.

Don

I don't think it was ever much of a secret that Henry Ford was very much of an anti-Semitic type. Might have even been considered a borderline Nazi. Politics and money can make for some strange bedfellows!

Jim

Jim

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

I found these pictures of the 1942 Dodge War Wagon Woodie. This 42 Dodge bus was created by Bishop, McCormick and Bishop however it was actually built by Derham Company of Rosemont, PA with assistance from Dodge Engineers.  The 1942 assembled cars were held in inventory until the government approved the sale. These 42's were modified to be used as school busses in rural areas. Notice the dual tires on the rear axle. Is this the first mini van? Not a truck chasis....

1942dodgesedanwagon 02.JPG1942 Dodge BishopMcCormick.jpg

 

More information at http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/b/bishop/bishop.htm

 

1942Dodge Sedan Wagon BishopMcCormick.jpg

Edited by Ron42Dodge (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bill, you might want to consider writing book on the subject. It would be marketable to a variety of historians and enthusiasts. Publishers are interested in good WWII US Homefront books, especially exhaustively researched reference books. I am a WWII history author with my own homefront reference book that has been published and is available right now (it is in it's second printing). You should try my publisher: McFarland & Co. Inc., Jefferson, NC. Good luck. PP.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 11 months later...

Hi, I am the second owner of one of the 1942 Plymouth blackout models. I am interested to know what you've learned in addition to what you stated above and also to offer the information I have regarding my original 1942 Plymouth Convertible (P14-C). It was originally sold in 1943 but it's title then and now has identified it as a 1942. It's engine and body numbers match and are among those identified as black out models and it has painted trim and some slightly different trim pieces than the pre-blackout. I look forward to learning more about the 42s. 42s.post-87836-143142243913_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"I don't think it was ever much of a secret that Henry Ford was very much of an anti-Semitic type. Might have even been considered a borderline Nazi. Politics and money can make for some strange bedfellows!"

Same old guff. If anybody cares, Ford was an ardent pacifist in WW1 and was convinced by some of his socialist cronies that the big bankers and capitalists were behind the war (the International Jew). This was the start of his anti Semitism.

He was hurt and surprised when his Jewish friends took this personally. He had nothing against Jews as a race, just the big financiers he saw as controlling and exploiting the people. This was quite orthodox in socialist, unionist, progressive and populist circles at the time.

He repudiated these views in 1927. Issued a public apology to the Jewish people, shut down the Dearborn Independent and burned a large and costly library of anti Semitic books.

That was the end of it as far as he was concerned. It wasn't the first time he changed his mind about something and it wouldn't be the last.

Unfortunately Hitler took him up and made a hero of him. The Nazis made a big thing about Ford being an anti Semite even though he wasn't.

So, the same tired old rumors live on all these years later.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A large amount of the industrial capacity of the US auto makers was converted to non-auto building such as aircraft and tanks. For just one example, Ford built the B-24 at Willow Run during the war. They also built huge numbers of aircraft engines under a license from Pratt and Whitney.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest DodgeKCL

(I forget the year but Henry Ford accepted a medal from a couple of Nazis in his Dearborn office. Maybe 1938 just before the war. German children were told the great Henry Ford backed up Hitler's view on Jews and I believe their is a remark or two in Mein Kampf about Henry ford and his views concerning the Jews. Booklets were published in the 30s and were distributed to school chlidren with more diatribe about the Jews and unfortunetly more quotes from Henry. I have been told the Jews after WWII would not buy Ford products and the rich would only buy Cadillacs and not Lincolns. I have been told that the small 10" steering wheel on Cadillacs for many years was the result of GM making the car fit small Jewish "grandmothers". I have also been told Israel would not allow Ford to sell their products in Israel for many years. I do not know if theis still holds true. I don't know how much of this is true but Henry must of said something. It can't all be made up.)

I also thought there was no new cars or trucks available during WWII. But I have car mags from that era and at least one of them has a story about a car dealership releasing one of those "new" and cars and being charged and taken to court for breaking same wartime act. I also just finished a book on the last 2 years of WWII and it mentions new cars being delivered to Monty and others in Europe in '44 and'45.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hitler got hold of some of Ford's publications which were available in Germany before 1927. He made a big thing of Ford's antisemitism after Ford renounced it. The fact that he was lying did not seem to bother Hitler. I won't insult your intelligence by telling you that Ford did not control Hitler's policy.

Ford did receive a couple of visitors from Germany in 1938, at his office at the Ford plant. He received hundreds of such visitors from all over the world every year. They did give him a medal. At the time a lot of people from Roosevelt and Chamberlain on down believed it was important to keep cordial relations with Germany. There was no war at that time.

It is possible a Ford dealer broke the law. It is also possible for a Ford dealer to be an adulterer, a Shriner, to cheat on his income tax, and do many other things that were not under the control of the Ford company. Many people do not appreciate that a car dealer is an independent businessman and that the car companies have only limited control over what they do. This was all established under the anti trust laws back in the thirties and earlier.

As for Jews refusing to buy Ford products it seems this is true. I have heard the same from Jewish sources. In this respect Driving Miss Daisy was accurate, it showed her owning a Chrysler, a Hudson and a series of Cadillacs but no Ford or Lincoln products.

The Ford company did fully support the war effort in WW2. They made tanks, planes, trucks, cars, and many other things for the Allies. By this time Henry Ford was in his 80s and had given up day to day control of his company. The government had Henry Ford II released from the Navy so he could take over the company in 1943. They saw the company was being badly run and that Ford was no longer in any condition to run it himself. Specifically, his mental powers were failing. What kind of shape he was in 5 years earlier when he accepted the Nazi medal, I would not know. But by 1943 he was largely out of it to where it was obvious to government officials that something must be done, just to keep the company going to fill government orders.

Ford of Germany made trucks for the Nazis but of course, Ford had no control over that after September 1939. During the war General Motors actually wrote off their European operations which had all been confiscated by the Nazis, and deducted the loss from their income tax. After the war they had to revise their returns to reflected getting them back, what was left of them.

Edited by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi, I am the second owner of one of the 1942 Plymouth blackout models. I am interested to know what you've learned in addition to what you stated above and also to offer the information I have regarding my original 1942 Plymouth Convertible (P14-C). It was originally sold in 1943 but it's title then and now has identified it as a 1942. It's engine and body numbers match and are among those identified as black out models and it has painted trim and some slightly different trim pieces than the pre-blackout. I look forward to learning more about the 42s. 42s.[ATTACH=CONFIG]219446[/ATTACH]

Video clip sans fender skirts. I'll post a better one soon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...
1942plym said:
Hi, I am the second owner of one of the 1942 Plymouth blackout models. I am interested to know what you've learned in addition to what you stated above and also to offer the information I have regarding my original 1942 Plymouth Convertible (P14-C). It was originally sold in 1943 but it's title then and now has identified it as a 1942. It's engine and body numbers match and are among those identified as black out models and it has painted trim and some slightly different trim pieces than the pre-blackout. I look forward to learning more about the 42s. 42s.[ATTACH=CONFIG]219446[/ATTACH]

What trim pieces are different from the pre blackout pieces? Any pictures?

 

I could be wrong but my impression with blackout models is, the painted trim did not match the car from the factory. It was usually a greyish color. At the factory, cars were painted prior to the trim being put on and color coordination would be a nightmare so I believe each brand got one color.

 

Dodge eliminated some trim by installing Deluxe fenders in lieu of the Custom fenders. This saved trim and paint. Cars that were already delivered to the dealership but not sold by January 1, had to have the trim painted so there would be no unfair sales advantage. Color selection was probably up for grabs.

 

Below are pictures of a 1942 Dodge Blackout Convertible. I believe these were taken in 1948 so these are probably pretty accurate as to how it left the factory. Again, Deluxe fenders on a Custom Car just means less trim so these fenders never had holes for the extra trim. My convertible came the same way too although mine is not a blackout. As I recall, the factory build ticket had a hand written note "Less trim", or something like that. But the delivery date was December 26, 1941 so it was before the official blackout date. I'll have to dig that out again.

1942 Dodge Blackout Convertible 01b.jpg1942 Dodge Blackout Convertible 02.jpg228665d1388521593-1942-dodge-factory-photos-proven-known-1942-dodge-blackout-convertible-side-vi.jpg 1942 Dodge Blackout Convertible 03.jpg228662d1388520347-1942-dodge-factory-photos-proven-known-1942-dodge-blackout-convertible-dash-90.jpg

Below are factory photos of a 1942 Dodge Blackout model as well as a blackout waiting to be restored. In all these examples, the bumpers were chrome and the trim was painted.

160282d1351221750-1942-dodge-factory-photos-proven-known-01-1942-dodge-blackout.jpg 160283d1351221751-1942-dodge-factory-photos-proven-known-02-1942-dodge-blackout-grille.jpg Jim_Nisson.jpg

Below is a Blackout hood ornament next to a Chrome one. In some cases trim was already chromed prior to being painted. In those cases it was a feel good effort because it didn't save any nickel or copper. I don't know what's under the paint of this hood ornament and I don't want to violate the paint to find out.

169982d1356757069-1942-dodge-factory-photos-proven-known-1942-dodge-blackout-hood-ornament.jpg

I've seen several "Blackout" cars where the pieces that should be chrome are painted to match the car body. In some of these cases I think they saved restoration money on chrome. But when serial numbers can show it is a factory blackout, than it is a blackout.

 

I suspect only the cars that were already on the lot were the ones that the trim paint might match the exterior paint. Dealers may not have know what chrome had to be painted so they painted everything, inside and out. I don't know if a car that was painted at the dealership is an official blackout model in AACA terms. Never thought about it.

 

One of the easiest ways to tell if yours is a blackout is to get a "1942 Parts List" book for your car. They breakout the part numbers for prime or white (painted) pieces vs the chrome pieces and usually have a serial number range.

As an example, Dodge serial numbers ranged from 30,577,001 to 30,644,377 in 1942. 67,377 produced. Up to approximately serial number 30,636,724 was considered pre-blackout. Roughly only 7,653 cars were factory blackouts, or roughly 11.3%.

 

I've got the Plymouth , Desoto and Chrysler parts books, I'll try and get back to list those transition numbers for them too.

I'ld be interested to hear other points of view or observations.

 

Below is a car that is said to be a blackout with the dash trim matching the exterior but the horn ring does not share that paint scheme. Could be a replacement horn ring. I'm guessing either blackout at the dealership or years later during restoration. Hood ornament appears to be chrome too. Interesting to compare the similarities to the blackout convertible interior photo.

1942 dodge blackout interior.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Ron42Dodge (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suspect any vehicle made during late 1942 through 1945 from the (former) Big Three and Packard were no doubt assembled from components already on hand, notably, the body components. I believe engines and transmissions and other driveline components were still in production for the most part supplying land vehicles for the war. Perhaps Motor Numbers, and not the serial number would provide a more accurate answer for an actual build date to determine if a certain car or light truck for civilian use was built in the duration period.

Craig

Link to comment
Share on other sites

According to the 1942 Plymouth Parts List Book, The 1942 Plymouth was made at 3 plants and has 2 sets of serial numbers for each plant. One for the P14S-Deluxe and one for the P14C-Special Deluxe Those numbers are as follows:

Detroit P14S-Deluxe 15,135,501 to 15,153,935 meaning 18,434 produced. Pre-blackout up to 15,150781. 3,154 Blackout models Produced. That is 17.1%.

P14C-Special Deluxe 11,399,501 to 11,494,048 meaning 94,547 produced. Pre-blackout up to 11,474,830. 19,218 blackout models Produced. That is 20%.

Los Angles P14S-Deluxe 3,134,501 to 3,136,266 meaning 1,766 produced. Pre-blackout up to 3,136,084. 182 Blackout Models Produced. That is 10.3%.

P14C-Special Deluxe 3,297,001 to 3,306,756 meaning 9,756 produced. Pre-blackout up to 3,305,324. 1,432 Blackout Models Produced. That is 14.67%

Evansville P14S-Deluxe 22,037,001 to 22,041,356 meaning 4,356 produced. Pre-blackout up to 22,040,399. 957 Blackout Models Produced. That is 22%.

P14C-Special Deluxe 20,148,001 to 20,164,436 meaning 16,436 produced. Pre-blackout up to 20,160,112. 4,324 Blackout models Produced. That is 29.9%

Windsor 9,829,856 to 9,836,986 (There does not appear to be a breakdown between the P14S and P14C models) 7,131 produced.

A total of 147,028 P-14 Plymouths were made between all the plants. Motor numbers run from P14-1001 to P14-149161. 148,161 motors produced ,1,133 more than cars. Always want spares. What is interesting is the Canadian cars used the 218.6 block instead of the American 217.8 block. That has to make rebuilding more challenging.

It appears there were 24,556 P14S-Deluxe Plymouths made in total and of that 4,293 were blackouts. That is 17.48% of the production.

It appears there were 120,739 P14C-Special Deluxe Plymouths made in total and of that 24,974 were blackouts. That is 20.68% of the production.

According to the 1942 Desoto Parts list Book, The 1942 DeSoto shows 3 series of serial numbers:

The S10 Custom was 5,771,001 to 5,783,503 meaning 12,503 produced.

The S10 Deluxe was 6,142,001 to 6,150,099 meaning 8,099 produced.

The S10 Started with 6,150,100 but no ending number was listed in the Parts List. These cars have painted mouldings except 6,150,210, 211, 212, 424, 425, 426,427, 428, 711 and 712 had S10 deluxe grilles. I would be curious to know what models these exceptions were. My 1954 Parts book show the 1942 Desoto serial numbers up to 6,153,101. That seems to say there were at least 2,991 Blackout models. That's 14.51% of the production. The motor numbers ran from s10-1001 to s10-25551 indicating 24,551 motors produced for 23,604 cars. That's about 947 extra motors. Spares are good.

According to the 1942 Chrysler Parts List Book, The 1942 Chrysler had 5 sets of serial numbers.

C34S (Royal) ran from 70,001,001 to 70,010,204 meaning 9,204 produced. Pre-blackout up to 70,009390. 814 Blackout models produced. That is 8.8%

C34W (Windsor) ran from 70,501,001 to 70,514,501 meaning 13,501 produced. Pre-blackout up to 70,512,867. Roughly 1,634 Blackouts were produced although station wagons after 70512704 were blackouts too. That is 12.1%

C34 motor numbers ran from 1001-23922 meaning 22,922 produced for 22,705 cars. 217 extra motors produced.

C36K (Saratoga) ran from 6,762,501 to 6,764,097 meaning 1,597 produced. Pre-blackout up to 6.763,877. 220 Blackouts were produced. That is 13.7%

C36N (New Yorker) ran from 6,674,201 to 6,684,754 meaning 10,554 produced. Pre-blackout up to 6,682,412. 2342 blackouts were produced. That is 22.1%

C36 motor numbers ran from C36-1001 to C36-13526 meaning 12,526 produced for 12,151cars. 375 extra motors produced.

C37 (Crown Imperial) ran from 7,808,401 to 7,808,850 meaning 450 produced. No blackout starting number was noted so Imperials were probably spared from blackout.

They say the C37 Crown Imperial used the same Motor as the New Yorker and Saratoga but I have no C37 motor info. C37-1001 to ?

And as I stated before, According to the 1942 Dodge Parts List Book, the 1942 Dodge serial numbers ranged from 30,577,001 to 30,644,377 in 1942. 67,377 produced. Up to approximately serial number 30,636,724 was considered pre-blackout. Roughly only 7,653 cars were factory blackouts, or roughly 11.3%. The motor numbers run from D22-1001 to D22-68416 which means 67,416 motors for 67,376 cars. 40 extra motors. When your good you don't need spares.

Motor numbers came from the Standard Catalog of American Cars 1805-1942, 3rd edition.

Edited by Ron42Dodge (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ford of Germany made trucks for the Nazis but of course, Ford had no control over that after September 1939. During the war General Motors actually wrote off their European operations which had all been confiscated by the Nazis, and deducted the loss from their income tax. After the war they had to revise their returns to reflected getting them back, what was left of them.

I'll get to Ford some other time, but first GM; From the General Motors & the Third Reich | Jewish Virtual Library

In the case of Opel, Carl Luer, the longtime member of the Opel Supervisory Board, company president and Nazi Party stalwart, was appointed by the Reich to run Opel as custodian, but only some 11 months after America entered the war. In anticipation of the outbreak of hostilities, GM had appointed Luer to be president of Opel in late 1941, just before war broke out.

In other words, the existing GM-approved president of Opel continued to run Opel during America’s war years. The company continued as a major German war profiteer, and GM knew its subsidiary was at the forefront of the Nazi war machine. An Aug. 27, 1944, New York Times article detailed that Opel was the principal target of a 1,400-plane RAF bombing mission because its 35,000-worker plant was turning out crucial military transport and was known to be developing rocket technology.

GM also reaped the financial benefits of its relationship with the Third Reich. During the pre-war Hitler years, GM entered its Opel proceeds under “reserves” instead of listing the profits as ordinary income. Then during America’s war years GM declared it had abandoned its Nazi subsidiary, and took a complete tax write-off under special legislation signed by Roosevelt in October 1942. The write-off of nearly $35 million created a tax reduction of “approximately $22.7 million” or about $285 billion in 21st-century money, according to an internal Opel document.

But Opel’s friendly Nazi custodian, Luer, kept on making profits for the company during those war years. Opel produced trucks, bomber engines, land mines, torpedo detonators and other war materiel, a significant amount of it by the sweat of thousands of prisoner laborers or other coerced workers; some of those workers were tortured if they did not meet expectations. Those profits and GM’s 100 percent stock ownership were preserved by the Reich custodian, even though GM and Opel ostensibly severed ties with each other after America entered the war.

During the Hitler years, many of those excess profits were used to acquire other companies and properties, only increasing Opel’s assets in Germany. After the war, starting in 1948, GM began regaining control over Opel operations and eventually its monumental assets as well as blocked dividends. GM also collected some $33 million in “war reparations” because the Allies had bombed its German facilities.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The profits were in Reichsmarks which were worth nothing by the time the US Army got to Berlin. GM's German factories were worn out bombed out wrecks by the time they got them back.

In other words the usual revisionist apcray.

Profits were in Opel acquired companies and properties. As for the factories, no they were not worn out, but rather bombed out, we ( the U.S. taxpayer ) paid to have the factories rebuilt under war reparations to Opel GM because the allies bombed the factories.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are plenty of such stories out there that seem to be aimed a denigrating the American contribution to WW2. If you want the real story by the guy who was actually running GM at the time, you should read My Years With General Motors by Alfred Sloan.

As for the suggestion that GM and other American companies were working hand in glove with Hitler, don't be absurd.

Let's look at it the other way around. What about German companies with branches in the US? What do you suppose J. Edgar Hoover and the FBI were doing? I assure you that any company with German connections, or any German working in a war industry was investigated carefully to prevent exactly what is described here. Many Germans were interred during the war on suspicion that they might be involved in unpatriotic activities.

Now do you suppose Hitler and the Gestapo were more liberal minded than Roosevelt and the FBI? Don't you suppose they took measures to prevent espionage and fifth column activities? The idea that international companies were free to work both sides of the war for profit is absurd.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What documents? Nobody doubts that GM had a German subsidiary called Opel, that they bought in 1928. Nobody doubts that during WW2, Opel made trucks and other war materiel (as if they had a choice). Nobody doubts that GM wrote off their German holdings during the war, and got them back afterwards. These things are all documented.

To try and twist this around and make it sound like Hitler was working for GM is the ridiculous part. GM and Opel "ostensibly severed ties with each other". Does this person even know what a war is? Does she seriously suppose that GM was even allowed to communicate with Opel?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To try and twist this around and make it sound like Hitler was working for GM is the ridiculous part. GM and Opel "ostensibly severed ties with each other". Does this person even know what a war is? Does she seriously suppose that GM was even allowed to communicate with Opel?

There is no question to that authenticity if this;

In the case of Opel, Carl Luer, the longtime member of the Opel Supervisory Board, company president and Nazi Party stalwart, was appointed by the Reich to run Opel as custodian, but only some 11 months after America entered the war. In anticipation of the outbreak of hostilities, GM had appointed Luer to be president of Opel in late 1941, just before war broke out.

In other words, the existing GM-approved president of Opel continued to run Opel during America’s war years. The company continued as a major German war profiteer, and GM knew its subsidiary was at the forefront of the Nazi war machine

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So? You make it sound as if they had a choice. I hate to break it to you but as of 1941 Germany had been at war with England, Canada, Australia, etc for two years. Hitler had liquidated all opposition, including members of his own party. Practically everyone in an important job was a member of the Nazi party. The US was officially neutral at this time but don't kid yourself, Hitler was in charge and what he said went.

"Just before war broke out" indeed. You mean a few months before the Axis attacked the US at Pearl Harbor and declared war on the US.

I like a good conspiracy theory as well as anybody but this one is not convincing.

Edited by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So? You make it sound as if they had a choice. I hate to break it to you but as of 1941 Germany had been at war with England, Canada, Australia, etc for two years. Hitler had liquidated all opposition, including members of his own party. Practically everyone in an important job was a member of the Nazi party. The US was officially neutral at this time but don't kid yourself, Hitler was in charge and what he said went.

"Just before war broke out" indeed. You mean a few months before the Axis attacked the US at Pearl Harbor and declared war on the US.

I like a good conspiracy theory as well as anybody but this one is not convincing.

Try and understand what I said. GM management installed Luer to be president of Opel while the U.S. was neutral ( pre Dec 7 ) in anticipation of U.S. involvement so that their man ( GM's man ) would be in charge of Opel once war began. This is no secret, fabrication or conspiracy theory. It's just plain political, economic maneuvering that GM did to guarantee control after the dust settled. And it's documented in history.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And what if GM had decided to install an anti Nazi pacifist who would refuse to make weapons for the Reich? What do you think would have happened then?

I don't dispute the facts. I dispute the interpretation that Alfred Sloan and the GM board of directors were Nazis who enthusiastically worked together with Hitler.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And what if GM had decided to install an anti Nazi pacifist who would refuse to make weapons for the Reich? What do you think would have happened then?

I don't dispute the facts. I dispute the interpretation that Alfred Sloan and the GM board of directors were Nazis who enthusiastically worked together with Hitler.

GM wouldn't have done that because they needed a inside link to protect and control their assets. I'm not interested in what if in this situation, only the truth of what really happened.

Did you read the whole link that I posted. It will give you the insight of what was going on in GM. This not only reveals what they say, but more importantly in evaluating what they actually do. What they do is what is the real truth serum of what a person or corporation is really like.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...