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1941 Chrysler New Yorker


Guest Vito1956

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Guest Vito1956

I have owned this car for 37 years. Bought it with the engine from a c39 (46-48) straight 8 and transmission. This is just a 4 door sedan and has been registered ever since 1973. Finally found the original Motor and tranny (C30 and fluid Drive overdrive (not underdrive). States to be "Vacamatic" but has no vacuum ports at all. Shop manual is a little bit general. I would like to find someone who has one of these ( might be same a C33 Imperial) to discuss and help me sort this out. Basically, this setup has only one solenoid with 2 connections for it. I believe it is unusual to 1941 and 1942 and only the "8" cylinder.Any help and direction is appreciated. christopher at georger dot com

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You are correct in your assumption that the eight cylinder cars came with a different transmission than the sixes.

My 1954 Motor Repair Manual shows a semi automatic transmission as standard equipment on 1941 and 42 Chrysler eights.

It combines an overdrive unit with a conventional 3 speed transmission in which low gear is blocked out.

It is different from the Vacamatic and Simplimatic used on 6 cylinder cars but operates the same to the driver. The high torque of the eight cylinder engine permits starting in high gear, direct drive, then shifting automatically to high gear, overdrive.

It is also possible to start in second gear, and shift automatically to second overdrive.

A conventional overdrive would be operated by an electric solenoid. No vacuum devices necessary.

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Guest Vito1956

That makes a lot of sense since this would be very early in the age of "automatic" transmissions. So, if I got it right,this is a 3 speed with a fluid clutch and overdrive with 1st gear locked out. Column shifter "up" is second gear and when you lift off the gas pedal, it shifts into second overdrive. With the column shifter in the "down" position the transmission is in 3rd gear of the transmission and this is were I would typically start rolling and when I lift.... it shifts into overdrive (3rd).

Since I am just discovering this and I have a 1941 car where this was stock....the wiring comes into question. I have a solenoid on the right side of the tranny with 2 wire connections.... from the wiring diagram I see a couple of "relays". My sense is I can initially run a switched hot wire to the solenoid on the tranny and open and close this switch when I want the overdrive to engage. Thought is the existing relays are 69 years old and not dependable. once I "override" the "automatic" portion I can shift into or out of O/D at will. I can return to this circuit later to have it be more "automatic". In the same thought ... there is a lever to the rear of the tranny that is perpendicular to the ground. 3" long and it swings forward and backwards a couple of inches. My guess is this is to "lock out" the overdrive or perhaps "freewheeling". I think this would be actuated by the plunger that is on the steering column near the drivers left knee. Any further insights or thoughts on this topic is appreciated.

Thanks

Christopher

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Guest DougD

The "Vacamatic" transmission on the 1941 8-cylinder Chryslers is really just the "Cruise & Climb" overdrive transmission from 1939-40 but with 1st gear blocked off. As noted, there is really nothing "vacuum" about it. The Vacamatic name was probably used only for marketing purposes, to associate it with the vacuum-operated semi-automatic used on the 6-cylinder cars.

The solenoid on the overdrive unit is used only for the full-throttle "kickdown" function of the overdrive. A switch on the carburetor closes at full throttle and energizes the kickdown relay. A contact in the relay then closes to energize the solenoid at its "SW" terminal. A contact in the solenoid then closes, grounding the "IGN" terminal and briefly shorting the distributor ignition points to relieve the driveline torque and allow the overdrive to downshift to direct drive. If you have access to the Shop Manual, the circuitry is shown in Fig. 53 of the Transmission chapter.

All of the electrical circuitry is involved only in the full-throttle kickdown. Other than the kickdown, the overdrive will function normally with the electrical stuff disconnected.

I'd strongly recommend against arranging a manual switch to energize the solenoid. It's intended to be energized only momentarily during a kickdown and might burn up if energized continuously.:eek:

As you've said, the lever at the side of the transmission is for locking out the overdrive and free-wheeling features and is intended to be operated by the overdrive control knob on the steering column. Its operation is similar to other overdrives of the period: pulling the knob out locks out overdrive and free-wheeling, pushing the knob in re-enables them.

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Guest Vito1956

how does it know when to up-shift?

Regular driving and release the gas pedal.... what tells it to shift into High?

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Guest DougD

Centrifugal force on the overdrive clutch pawls causes them to move outward against spring tension. When the road speed is 25 mph or higher, the centrifugal force is sufficient to cause the pawls to move against the overdrive clutch shell. When the accelerator is released, the freewheeling function relieves the driveline torque, allowing the pawls to slip into holes on the overdrive clutch shell, locking the transmission into overdrive.

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Guest Vito1956

Wow! You are a gold mine for me. Do I still need to rig up the solenoid if I do not expect to ever need the kick down (Passing gear)?

On another subject, this is a new engine for me and it was stated to be rebuilt and I tend to agree because of new gaskets everywhere and very clean appearance. Today March 6, I went out to make it "bark". To connect up everything and give it a turn to spark it up and add fuel to see if I have oil pressure and if the engine will run. The issue is the front clip( fenders) is off and therefore no water to sustain longer running. The question is about oil pressure. I want to make sure I have pressure and I am getting mixed results. I ran a line to omit the oil filter from the "T" in front of the starter... back to the fitting above the pressure relief valve with the top of the "T" going up the the pressure gauge. When I crank the engine and leave the oil line loose.... I will get oil at the fitting. When I take the flex hose off the feed to the pressure gauge .... I get oil to that place. But, I have the valve covers off under the intake manifold on the passenger side..... I am not seeing oil lubricating the lifters. The engine has run for 20 seconds at a time or less but at some point I would think I'd begin to see oil. This could be just an unfamiliarity with Chrysler 8 cylinder motors. Oil pressure for my old C39 engine would take some time to show up on my gauge on the dash and I have never looked under the valve covers to see if oil just drips or is under pressure. I do see 2 oil lines under the valve covers and they look fine but I think would like to see some lubricating action under here. Perhaps I need to let the engine run for a couple of minutes but I'd hate to ruin the motor waiting for oil. What do you think?

Thanks

Christopher

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Guest DougD

Hi Christopher,

Yes, you should be able to just ignore the overdrive solenoid if you don't anticipate a need for the kickdown feature. Its fuse has a tendency to blow easily anyway, disabling the full-throttle kickdown, but nothing else.

I'm afraid I can't be of much help on the valve lifter oiling question. It's been many years since I tore down a Chrysler 8 and I don't remember how the lifters are lubricated. The small oil tubes behind the valve covers are for oiling some of the camshaft bearings.

Perhaps someone else will chime in here. Or you could try your question over at the 46-48 PWHM Chrysler forum:

46-48Chryslers : Post War Heavy Metal 46-48 Chryslers

Doug

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Your engine does not have hydraulic valve lifters so oil does not bleed off them like a modern engine.

There is no oil feed to the lifters or valves, just to the cam bearings, and they come last after the crankshaft.

The valves and lifters are oiled by splash or mist.

You can give the valve stems and lifters a shot of oil from an oil can if you have the covers off, otherwise don't worry about them.

The oil feed to the filter comes after the pressure relief valve so there will be no oil there until the pump gets up to 40 pounds or so.

I would put the filter on and connect a pressure gauge where the factory did. You should have 10 or 15 pounds idling hot and considerably more cold. Factory specs call for a pressure of 40 pounds at 20 MPH or faster.

Incidentally as you have a rebuilt engine, I would recommend synthetic oil once it is broken in. Until then 10W30 should be fine.

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  • 8 months later...
Guest ZachTax

Hi, glad I found this thread... Although I don't have the answers to your mechanical questions, I do have questions about the history and/or type of 1941 New Yorker that I have... I have owned mine for about 10 years & STILL have questions re: where exactly my car fits in the model line-up... I can't seem to place it firmly into any of the known models. Seems to be very rare. I've been told by a couple people that it was a very limited edition made as some sort of Imperial / New Yorker cross.. Whether that is BS or not, I'd like to know.

My VIN is VIN#6638046 (Fluid Drive) / I found a chart online showing = "1941 Crown Imperial Special 8 (C-30N) 6624101-6642645" PLEASE HELP!

Here is a link to what I have, Pictures and all. Any help would be very much appreciated!

Picasa Web Albums - NO BS Auto Sales.Com - 1941 CHRYSLER...

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I have a chart here that says the New Yorker (not Imperial) had serial numbers starting from 6624101 to 6642655. It says nothing here about being special or limited production, but that does not mean it isn't. Do you have an engine number from the flat pad just below the cylinder head on the driver's side front part of the engine? Should start with "C-30...

There is one mention of a "C-30 Crown Imperial Special Town Sedan 6 passenger, but does not give the serial numbers for those. Does yours have a "crown" emblem anywhere on it?

Oh....and MAN, that is a beautiful car you have there!

Edited by keiser31 (see edit history)
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Guest ZachTax

I thought so too... HOWEVER, I have been unable to make a match of the body style shown on a normal 1941 NEW YORKER... The ONLY pic that matches PERFECTLY is the "1941 Chrysler Crown Imperial Town Sedan" as shown on A Picture Review of the Chrysler Corporation from 1915 to 1949, Classy Chrysler's and the pic attached.

I have yet to see ANY pic of a 1941 New Yorker that looks like mine..

Still confused.

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Guest Vito1956

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Here is a picture of my 1941 and it is the standard 4 door sedan. The Imperial and Town Car from those days had the doors swinging from the front and not the classic Suicide doors. These cars are very beautiful and the same as all Chrysler 4 doors from the firewall back. Other models were the Windsor, Saratoga, Royal and Imperial. This model is the standard 4 door sedan. The differences lie in the front sheet metal. The "8" cylinders had longer fenders and hoods and different brakes and wheels and a few others. Generally, the bigger engine meant a little bigger other components. But... the longer front fenders really make a difference in appearance ..

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Guest ZachTax
Here you go...from "70 Years Of Chrysler"....this is your New Yorker. The Imperial had a big, red cloisenne emblem in the center of the wheelcover.

Thanks Keiser. Is that the only difference? Are there other identifiers? Could I have the wrong wheel covers? Any VIN Decoders that confirm the exact model?

FURTHER, My biggest problem (Thank God) with this car is the Pot Metal... Man I hate this stuff! Can't find ANYONE willing to restore the pot metal trim.. I have taken it all off and sent it out to several chrome & metal restoration firms, only to have them send it back saying they can't help me... It is pitted & dull. If anyone knows someone who can handle this, please advise. Thanks!

See pics below...

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Thanks Keiser. Is that the only difference? Are there other identifiers? Could I have the wrong wheel covers? Any VIN Decoders that confirm the exact model?

FURTHER, My biggest problem (Thank God) with this car is the Pot Metal... Man I hate this stuff! Can't find ANYONE willing to restore the pot metal trim.. I have taken it all off and sent it out to several chrome & metal restoration firms, only to have them send it back saying they can't help me... It is pitted & dull. If anyone knows someone who can handle this, please advise. Thanks!

See pics below...

I am sure that there are a lot of other differences, but do not have the information on those differences.

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  • 9 months later...
Guest dan.mining
Thanks Keiser. Is that the only difference? Are there other identifiers? Could I have the wrong wheel covers? Any VIN Decoders that confirm the exact model?

FURTHER, My biggest problem (Thank God) with this car is the Pot Metal... Man I hate this stuff! Can't find ANYONE willing to restore the pot metal trim.. I have taken it all off and sent it out to several chrome & metal restoration firms, only to have them send it back saying they can't help me... It is pitted & dull. If anyone knows someone who can handle this, please advise. Thanks!

See pics below...

Zach,

The chrome restoration outfit in Salt Lake City, UT work on pot metal. Occording to their sales guy (Kevin) they strip it, plate it with copper or something, buff it off and repeat untill all the pits are filled and finish with the chrome. They charge a little extra for pot metal, but will do the work. 801x349x5919

Can't speak to the quality, but he gave some estimates over the phone.

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