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headlight switches


Jim

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There is some misinformation floating around about the headlight switches in Reattas.

The '88-89 switches were a very complicated arrangement of sliders and contacts. These switches can for some reason short internally and sometimes melt the contact area or melt some wires directly on the back of the switch. Over the last 11 years I have given away about 5 sets of connectors for the back of the switch. This very rare problem is not the result of "rebuilding" but a manufacturing defect or something shorts internally but definitely not a result of "rebuilding".

Almost anything man made can be rebuilt or remanufactured or simply cleaned, and if necessary some new parts installed.

To say a switch is NOT rebuildable is simply not true.

The '90 and '91 headlight switches are a completely different switch from the earlier ones. The '90 switches are alone in that they have the fog light button at the bottom, different from the '91s.

Because the '90-91 switches are completely different and do not have the sliders and many contacts like the earlier ones, over all the years the only three problems I have found in these switches is 1. they fall apart internally, 2. the slider extension breaks and 3. the slider switch soldered to the circuit board goes bad.

I always have good appearing and tested working guaranteed '90 headlight switches available. I either take them directly from a parts car or take them in trade when I sell one. When I get one in trade I look it over and in every case in the last 11 years the only problems are the ones mentioned above.

I replace any broken or missing parts, reassemble the switch, most of the time put on a good appearing headlight button and then test the switch.

Unlike the '88-89 switches that need to be cleaned in many areas the '90 and 91 switches simply need putting back together with some new parts.

Again to say they are NOT rebuildable is completely false.

I also rarely post my prices but I sell '90 headlight switches for about $ 60 exchange plus about $ 8 shipping.

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there are many items you can buy for your car that are rebuilt. I'm sure everyone has the horror story of the bad rebuilt alternator or A/C compressor that failed, with exchanges under those "lifetime warranties" only providing another equally bad item. those "lifetime warranties" also never cover labor/installation costs, or the cost of multiple A/C recharges. many of us learned a long time ago that they were not really such a bargain at all.

there is one big difference between these components and a headlight switch: the components have rebuild kits available, and the headlight switch does not.

as I mentioned in another post, the headlight switch fails for a reason; it is worn out. the worn out parts can be reinstalled and rearranged, but they are still worn out. when it flies apart, it is like a runaway Jack-In-The-Box.

I was not even aware that anyone was rebuilding the switches until a few months ago, when we began getting a lot of requests for switches. these are common items to fail, but I was perplexed when customers began mentioning "rebuilt" switches. I was even more concerned when several customers also needed lengths of dash wiring that had melted from an internal switch problem. one customer's wiring was so bad that we had to send the entire wiring block that is in the "pod" section of the dash in front of the driver. this got to be a very expensive proposition for the car's owner, as the entire dashboard had to be removed from the car to replace the wiring block. he was very fortunate that the entire car didn't catch fire. we have three cars here with extensive fire damage from owners who attempted to rebuild the switch themselves.

when I started this business almost ten years ago, I looked long and hard at items I would and wouldn't sell. I consulted several people in the used parts business, as well as an attorney.

we sell just about anything that is exclusive to the Reatta. we DON'T sell "liability nightmares", like anything related to the ABS brake system (with the exception of the Electronic Brake Control Module in the trunk), or anything under the hood. we have an excellent remanufacturer we recommend for any ABS issues. they are fully insured, and their products come with a three year warranty. we do not want to be responsible for a catastrophic failure of a brake system we sold used at a "bargain price". I don't think anyone's life is worth that, do you?

all of the electrical items we sell (instrument panel clusters, CRTs, CRT controllers, radio modules, CD players, PCMs, and BCMs) are professionally rebuilt by Delco/GM licensed remanufacturers. we also (unlike most anyone else) don't believe in only repairing the problem a failed component had. our rebuilders also replace all of the things that could fail, like all of the cold solder joints and circuit boards. it makes no sense to us to only replace the failed item, as all of the other parts in a given assembly could fail at any time...and we are dealing with 20 year old parts here, aren't we? we also provide a two year unconditional warranty with any electrical component we sell.

I am not mentioning any of the comments I've made concerning rebuilding of the headlight switch for the purpose of "tooting my own horn", as we are presently out of stock of the 1990 headlight switch assemblies. I am merely voicing my concerns from the problems I've heard about from the customers who have brought the issues to my attention that they have had with the "rebuilt" switches. I can remember taking a switch into my rebuilder a few years ago about the possibility of a rebuild; he just started laughing, pointing to a litany of issues. he wanted nothing to do with it.

we have located (and are in discussions with ) the company that supplied the 1990 Reatta headlight switch assemblies to NAPA. they are no longer available, but the company is considering another run, since no one else offers them. GM discontinued them about eight months ago, with the final list price on the last GM switches being in the $800 range.

we are trying to arrange for an initial run of 500 switches. this will defininitely be the best way to go when you switch fails.

over and out.

Mike Rukavina

buickreattaparts.com

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we have located (and are in discussions with ) the company that supplied the 1990 Reatta headlight switch assemblies to NAPA. they are no longer available, but the company is considering another run, since no one else offers them. GM discontinued them about eight months ago, with the final list price on the last GM switches being in the $800 range.

we are trying to arrange for an initial run of 500 switches. this will defininitely be the best way to go when you switch fails.

over and out.

Mike Rukavina

buickreattaparts.com

what about 1989 switches?

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Guest steveskyhawk

"hi there. i have a 90 reatta. while i was driving

my headlights went out. when my mechanic pushed

the on button for the lights the switch fell

apart.it looks like something was burnt behind

there. so i have all the buttons that say fog,etc.

but need the wiring behind it..............."

I just got this email today. Anybody that uses a "rebuilt" switch might be well advised to have comprehensive insurance and a fire extinguisher..... Lets hope SOMEONE is able to get reproduction switches made soon

Edited by steveskyhawk (see edit history)
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Guest steveskyhawk

Ronnie,

I deleted the personal information. I do not know the origin of the switch and i didn't imply that I knew the origin of the switch. My ONLY point is that a bad switch can cause damage to the car up to and including a fire. Headlight circuits are not fused. (I'm sure someone will correct me if i'm wrong) My only point is buyer beware and to remember that you get what you pay for.

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Well, not quite, they are on fusible links but if there is flammable material about, 20A through a 22 ga wire will heat past ignition without blowing. A loose contact can easily heat enough to melt the connecter, I have seen more than my share of such.

This is why I get concerned when people replace the 27.5w "forward running lights" with 55w H4 bulbs and Headlamps with european 100w lights without adding relays. The headlamp switch is the weak spot.

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Ahhh, Padgett hit it right on the head.

He mentioned a loose contact will create heat and melt wires or connections. He is right and dirty contacts will do the same thing.

This is typical on the '88-89 window switches. I have disassembled probably 25 of these window switches. You can tell almost instantly if an '88-89 window switch is bad by simply operating the rocker. If you hear a click it is good. If you do not hear a click the internal rocker is bad. What happens is there are some white plastic rockers inside with points on them. When the contacts get dirty, it creates a bad connection and makes heat. This heat melts the points on the white rockers. If the switch is a nice switch and the "windows, up, down, right and left" scripts show through nicely so the switch can light up, I will install a new white rocker and then test it to make sure it works.

This is the same thing with the headlight switches. As I mentioned in my first post over the years I have given away about 5 sets of the wires and connectors ( some sell these, I give them away with a switch ) because there has been some melting either of the switch itself or the wires directly behind the switch but within an inch of the switch.

I am not saying it cannot happen but because of the design of the '90-91 switches it is not likely. I have disassembled at least 40 of these switches ( no exaggeration ) and they are pretty simple with two rocker type contact surfaces. It is more likely in the '88-89 switches because of the complex arrangement of sliders and contacts. I have taken apart over the years at least 75 of these switches ( again, no exaggeration of the numbers ) and the problems in these switches is dirty and pitted contacts. The next time someone wants of try and fix their switch, disassemble it and look very closely at the contacts. You will see some displacement of metal from one contact to the other. With a small knife you can knock this metal off the contact.

The '90-91 switches have these two rockers and in taking apart and putting back together these switches I have never seen any pitting of the contacts.

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Another point worthy of mention here is that this problem is most likely to occur on early production 90's, as the full power for the headlamps was routed directly through the switch. This was poor planning IMO, and apparently the General agreed as late 90 and 91 models were changed to add a relay so that the load was not being directly controlled by the contacts in the switch. This is reflected in the 1990 FSM, and applied to both Reatta and Rivi.

This is a double whammy, as the 1990 lamp switch assembly is not only the hardest to find, but also the most prone to failure for the reason stated above. I would suggest to 1990 owners comfortable with electrical systems and with the know-how to do so to add the relay to reflect the late 90 style setup, and perhaps save your switch and maybe even your car from being burned out. Of course, this requires proper technique - improper electrical mods and poor wiring practices are worse, and potentially damaging as the factory setup.

I think the 1990 switch is more prone to failure also as the lamps always have to be turned on at the switch. 1991 had twilight sentinel. Now, I realize some here think that is a stupid feature for a car with mechanized headlights, and in theory I would agree. However, I've not found this to be a problem and actually rather like that I don't have to mess with it, as they turn on automatically. Then again, my previous 3 cars being Cadillacs, I was spoiled by the twilight sentinel feature. Anyway, I hardly ever use the actual headlamp switch since they work automatically. This means less wear and tear on the switch contacts, and that works for me.

KDirk

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As a service to owners of early '90 Reattas it would be good if someone with the expertise could do a writeup on how to install a relay for the headlights like the later models have. It would help preserve the life of the hard to find and expensive headlight switches.

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Another point worthy of mention here is that this problem is most likely to occur on early production 90's, as the full power for the headlamps was routed directly through the switch. This was poor planning IMO, and apparently the General agreed as late 90 and 91 models were changed to add a relay so that the load was not being directly controlled by the contacts in the switch. This is reflected in the 1990 FSM, and applied to both Reatta and Rivi.

It would be interesting to try and determine the approximate serial number where the change occurred. My Reatta was very late (july 1990), so I am assuming it has the additional relay. Though I have not actually looked for it yet.

... I would suggest to 1990 owners comfortable with electrical systems and with the know-how to do so to add the relay to reflect the late 90 style setup, and perhaps save your switch and maybe even your car from being burned out. Of course, this requires proper technique - improper electrical mods and poor wiring practices are worse, and potentially damaging as the factory setup.

Unfortunately, most modern cars run full power through their headlight, and high/low beam, switches. I do not know why, unless one smells a conspiracy and thinks the car companies will make money on replacement switches. I've also heard the opinion that with the voltage loss in the extra wiring, the bulbs last longer and therefore lower warranty costs.

In any event, rather than attempting to replicate the factory upgrade, there are a number of off-the-shelf relay harnesses available in the aftermarket. These are great for getting full voltage to your lights for full brightness. Costs range from about $50 to about $150 - depending on quality of parts and construction.

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wws944-

Funny thing is I don't think they gave a VIN breakpoint in the manual. GM was always bad about this, some changes gave a starting number, most (that I've run into personally) didn't. As far as I can remember, it just noted in separate wiring diagrams as "early production" or "late production". I will look at my 1990 FSM when I have some time and post back if it does give a number, but I'm pretty sure it didn't. On the assumption that it does not, it would be useful to determine this.

Then again, perhaps Barney or one of the other Reatta gurus here already have this information documented. In that case, hopefully it will be posted.

Good point about the conversion, there is not really a need to exactly replicate the factory relay setup, as long as a proper and safe modification is done. For ease of service later, modding to the factory schematic would probably be helpful since you could then follow the late production wiring diagram if the need for repair arose.

As to burning up the switches as a conspiracy to sell more, I would almost believe that since these parts are often obscenely expensive. The only problem there is that the cost of burning up a car (with someone in it) would tend to take the profit out of selling replacement headlamp switches. And, since at least in this case a factory mod was made, they seemed to be concerned with improving quality and safety - they didn't change it for nothing. Then there are stories like the Pinto that make you wonder how much the car companies are really willing to just say screw it, we'll pay some big settlements and save the bigger cost of a recall.

KDirk

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As a service to owners of early '90 Reattas it would be good if someone with the expertise could do a writeup on how to install a relay for the headlights like the later models have. It would help preserve the life of the hard to find and expensive headlight switches.

As Ronnie suggested above, A tutorial would be Greeeatly appreciated :) ......

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Guest steveskyhawk

I think it is time for a reality check in this thread. There is no need for any additional relays/wiring unless someone decides to install aftermarket headlight bulbs which draw additional current. Put in OEM like replacement headlights like the book calls for and insure that your grounds are good and you wont have an excess current issue. These cars with original lights and switches have worked fine for 20 years or so and now they need to be re-engineered? I think not.

Second: Plastic gets brittle with time. Our light switches are made of plastic like many parts in a Reatta. They physically break. How many times have we heard of the "Jack in the box" failure? The button and switch guts pop out in your lap when it breaks. It is BROKEN and not rebuildable. Where do the so called "rebuilders" get "new" parts? The answer is obvious. They don't have any new parts. If you wish to risk a fire in your car go ahead and put in a light switch that has been cobbled together in someone's garage. If cheap is irreisistable then buy a so called rebuilt. The risk is yours.

Someday somebody may reproduce this switch but in the mean time the only real solution is to buy a good used switch which will extend the life of the car.

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Guest steveskyhawk

Jon.

You know that you cant buy a new 1990 Reatta headlight switch at the present time. Hopefully somebody will reverse engineer the switch and reproduce it but the R&D wont be cheap therefore the switch wont be cheap. Presently I have 4 spares for my 2 '90s so it isn't a pressing issue for me. Maybe you could do this on some cold winter Illinois night. Then you could sell them for $5 each!

I understand that parts availability and cost is an issue for some people but I cant change the reality of this situation. It is not smart to shoot the messinger because you dont like the message. Has anybody bought parts for a Toyota lately? If Toyota was selling 1990 Reatta light switches the price would be $800. People would pay it with a smile. This I dont understand but it is the way it is.

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Just went through the 1990 TSBs and nada (might be missing one ot two) Usually a change like this would be reflected in a TSB with VINs.

As Kevin says, it is documented in the FSM (file 90Reatta-08A08-ElectricalDiagnosis.pdf) around page 8A-100-0. It only distinguishes between "early production" and "late production".

Edited by wws944
Better schematic (see edit history)
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So your saying that those of us how have a light switch failure and can't get a new switch should go without because the REBUILT ones will only fail again and we shouldn't buy them because they are not the "BEST" and most expensive.:)

I'm not worried about it because I happen to have a brand new headlight switch in the box and a few spares. :):)

Personally, I trust Jim's work and would buy a part from him rather than almost any one.

Edited by 63viking (see edit history)
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Please enlighten me.

It is OK to put in a used switch but not OK to put in a used switch with used parts.

Not only that, I have said twice, in the '90 switches the the only parts that need replacing are the extension on the slider and a good looking button. Now I need someone to tell me how a nice looking button and a plastic slider extension will cause a fire.

I also mentioned sometimes the slider switch that is soldered to the circuit board sometimes goes bad but at this point I have two of these switches on my shelf that need this repair but I have never sent one out yet that has had a new slider soldered in.

Quote from post 20

They don't have any new parts. If you wish to risk a fire in your car go ahead and put in a light switch that has been cobbled together in someone's garage. If cheap is irreisistable then buy a so called rebuilt. The risk is yours.

Someday somebody may reproduce this switch but in the mean time the only real solution is to buy a good used switch which will extend the life of the car.

Edited by Jim (see edit history)
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I think it is time for a reality check in this thread. There is no need for any additional relays/wiring unless someone decides to install aftermarket headlight bulbs which draw additional current. Put in OEM like replacement headlights like the book calls for and insure that your grounds are good and you wont have an excess current issue. These cars with original lights and switches have worked fine for 20 years or so and now they need to be re-engineered? I think not.

If nighttime safety is important, then the OE headlights, with 35 watt low beams, are inadequate. Some might even consider them dangerous. Most good 6054-sized lights have a 55 watt low beam. Folks, such as myself, who have installed H4-based light housings have a large selection of stock (60/55 watt) and higher power "off road use only" bulbs to choose from.

Some questions which would then logically follow are: Are the factory provided switches and wiring are only designed to handle 6 amps (with occasional usage at 10 amps for high beam)? Can they handle 10 amps continuously? Unless the designer of the headlight switch wanders into this forum, I suspect the answer is "nobody knows".

However we do know that a.) Switches are failing and they are hard/expensive to replace, b.) headlight relays are a well-proven technique for moving high-current loads from the expensive panel switches to cheap and easy to replace relays, c.) GM apparently saw the light and put an additional relay in the "late production" 1990s. (And presumably, the 1991s?)

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Hokay folks, coupla things here

1) Location is important. Something in Florida air eats rubber. Have heard similar about LaLa Land. Have also heard that the Pacific Northwest is most benign on a car and its constituent parts.

2) Wires rarely fail. The connectors often do. Once a spade connector gets loose and resistive, heat results. Heat also removes the temper from the lug which makes things worse.

3) Copper conducts heat. Connectors are often thermoplastic and not thermoset (like bakelite) and melt.

4) Heat also accellerates corrosion (why you often see copper sulphate in the bare wire). This increases resistivity.

5) All Reattae are past their "sell by" date. No warrenty exists (recalls are different).

6) My personal preferance is to "baby" my cars. This comes from a long history of racing and particularly endurance racing and includes a number of cars exceeding 400hp. I maximise heat rejection and try to keep everything cool. Part of this is aways to use one size larger wire than indicated by the specs and to use soldered rather than crimped connections where possible.

7) Don't forget that GM engineers were rewarded for saving even a penny per vehicle.

Bottom line: Reattas were designed to cost and the cost basis was 5 or 50. If you could reduce cost by a dollar and increase expected repairs by 50 cents this was good. Wiring was often designed to handle max load plus 50% (and this includes operating environment and lead length deratings) a 100% increase will work for a while but you are taking a chance.

I rarely see crumbling insulation any more, I do see melted insulation often.

Just some observations. YMMV.

BTW, the online copy of the FSM that has "early" and "late" is dated March, 1990 so we can assume reasonably that the changeover took place sometime before that.

Edited by padgett (see edit history)
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