Curti Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 This looks to be in the early 20's. Possibly a dual cowl phaeton with a custom top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john2dameron Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Just a WAG but maybe a 1917 Scripps-Booth with a California top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Never seen a 2 door California top.Manuel in Oz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&J Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Never seen a 2 door California top.Manuel in OzI never did either, until I owned one last year. It was made by Rex for a roadster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Braverman Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Franklin made a two-door, four-passenger roadster, and there is one with a California top in, of all places, California. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Looks like it either has three doors (maybe two on the other side) or a split front seat to access the rear. The body has the contours of a Mitchell at the top of the door/body cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vintman Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Hi Folks,As an amateur on Americans, do I spy a widow’s peak on the top of the front of the rad. Perhaps a cca 1920 National ??Regards Vintman (UK)Classic Cars, Veteran Cars and Vintage Cars - The Surrey Vintage Vehicle Society Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 From the windscreen forwards it sort of looks Buick/Packard/Willys ish from the mid 1920's.Manuel in Oz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Very interesting, wish I knew how to make photos brighter to see more details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vintman Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 bigger and lighterVintman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 I agree with the National i.d. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curti Posted October 31, 2009 Author Share Posted October 31, 2009 I have a picture of a 20 National. There are similarities for sure. I note the running board in my picture is full. It appears that in 1920 the National has step plates, a nickel band around the front of the rad shell and nickel headlights. I suspect the wire wheels could be aftermarket.An interesting car, as noted, possibly a three door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Saxton Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Look at the unusual curved outline of the very small rear door: Passengers would need to lift their feet to enter and alight. And compare the lines of the car with the sedan on p102 of Fred Roe's book "Duesenberg. The Pursuit of Perfection". It is an A model Duesenberg by Charles Schutte; and Fred suggests possible derivation from a design of 1922 by Wellington Everett Miller. You are in the ACD Club and in a similar time zone to Fred, Curti: If you gave him a ring he could probably tell you what that 1922 design was. That is about the right period. And because of his long association with HCCA in California, it is possible That Miller's photos and records could be conserved at Horseless Carriage Club Foundation in San Diego. That bonnet latch looks to be an unusual screw-down type which may be a clue. I cannot pick anything that looks like the front of the radiator in MoToR for January 1921; and the National that year is quite different.It was not uncommon according to Hugo Pfau of LeBaron that custom body builders were asked to provide a differently styled radiator for a car. And the little curved door at the back would not be a problem for small children to scramble through; while there would be marginally less risk that they might fall out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 I see no rear door at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Saxton Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 You have to look very carefully at Vintman's enhanced image, but it is definitely there. It is curved on the bottom, and it extends about 2/3 way down from the top of the body. Don't be fooled that there is no external opening latch. Look at any L-head or 6 cyl Mercer open car photo. You always had to reach over the top to open the doors. Obviously there was reason or preference to do this on those small back door(s). A friend in Melbourne has had an early 20's Stoewer probably for well over 50 years now. It has the most beautifully styled and crafted Waring Brothers 4 door sports body, finished in polished aluminium. The doors only come halfway down the body on that, and with the very low hood there is no way at 6ft 2in that I could ever get in or out in wet weather with the hood up. That little door is there, but you have to look very carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rust Rustler Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Sure seems to be the hint of a very small door back there but the body looks like a Club four passenger Roadster with entry to the rear between the seats. The radiator has a Jordan look to it but those hub caps sure look a lot like the Briscoe Coronet. Could well be one of Briscoes offerings in the late teens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curti Posted November 1, 2009 Author Share Posted November 1, 2009 Yes, I see the rear door now. My wife waved her wand over the pix and cleared it up a bit more. Fit and finish on the Dusey is so good it is difficult to see the door gap. Were there cone headlights in 1922? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willard schoellerman Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 The car looks to me to be a 1919-21 Chandler four passenger roadster with a California top. The rear seat is accessed through a gap between the front seat. Willard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willard schoellerman Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 The car looks to me to be a 1919-21 Chandler four passenger roadster. The rear seat is accessed by a gap between the front seat.Willard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Although this National car is earlier, the "widow's peak" radiator shell design was carried through the make until it's demise in 1924. Your photo car does seem to have that detail or very similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curti Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 What is the black bar in the center of the grill in the National pix? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 That is the number 15 painted on the radiator....it's a race car. They used a lot of Nationals for racing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willard schoellerman Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 This looks like a 1919-21 Chandler four passenger roadster. Access to the rear seat is a gap between the front seats.willard36 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vintman Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Hi Keiser,I was looking at the black shadow as pinpointed below.RegardsVintman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I thought that it looked like the "widow's peak" curved up in the center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vintman Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Hi Willard36,Not sure it is a 1919 Chandler. See photo below. The original does not seem to have a curved side to the header tank, but a positive angle. Chandlers all seem to have a uninterrupted curveRegardsVintman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willard schoellerman Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 The car I believe is a 1919-21 Chandler four passenger roadster with the California top added.The rear seat is accessed through a gap between the front seats.Willard36 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willard schoellerman Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Sorry but it did not look like my first post went through so I sent it again before I saw it. The 1917-18 Chandlers had a rounded edge on top of the doors but the 1919-21 had an angle like shown in the photo. I own a 1920 Chandler touring and the whole side profile looks identical except for the body style.Willard36 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varun Coutinho Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 On 10/31/2009 at 8:16 PM, Vintman said: bigger and lighter Vintman 1919 - 1921 Cole Aero 8 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cole motor car lover Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 On 1/28/2024 at 4:02 PM, Varun Coutinho said: 1919 - 1921 Cole Aero 8 On 1/28/2024 at 4:02 PM, Varun Coutinho said: 1919 - 1921 Cole Aero 8 Most certainly is! Looks like it has a California top as well very nice car and a very rare model. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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