Jump to content

1932 Plymouth PB Roadster project


pmdolan

Recommended Posts

Ok, here is my newest Plymouth roadster project. This one was being used as a farm tractor in MD in 1960. It was purchased from the farmer and dismantled by 1962. Work progressed at a very slow pace by the former NH owner. Last year, at an AACA event, I fell into a conversation with the owner by chance, and he told me about this 50 year ongoing project and offered to sell it to me. I thought it sounded right up my alley and gave him a deposit site unseen. I picked it up as a basket case earlier this summer and have begun to accumulate the missing pieces. I hope to see my efforts produce a completed first place car within 3 years.

post-50716-143138110188_thumb.jpg

post-50716-143138110191_thumb.jpg

post-50716-143138110195_thumb.jpg

post-50716-143138110198_thumb.jpg

post-50716-143138110202_thumb.jpg

post-50716-143138110205_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I did not have the pleasure of knowing Ash personally, but I did buy his parts estate from his family. I still supply parts to his grandson Ed who has his 30-U Plym roadster. His wife still has the 31 PA coupe. Where did the roadster end up. It's a fine car.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I did not have the pleasure of knowing Ash personally, but I did buy his parts estate from his family. I still supply parts to his grandson Ed who has his 30-U Plym roadster. His wife still has the 31 PA coupe. Where did the roadster end up. It's a fine car.

Ash was like a father to me. He always had me drive his cars in parades and on tours. I think that when I mentioned some small detail about his 30-U that nobody else noticed, he sort of adopted me. The '32 Plymouth PB that his brother, Harry restored was at the Big Three swap meet in San Diego last February for sale. Ed told me that he was going to bring the '31 Plymouth dual sidemount business coupe down to the swap meet to sell the following day. I believe Norma, Ash's wife, still has the 30-U. I drove Shamu in a parade in the 30-U roadster once. Here is a photo of me driving the coupe (I always loved both cars and put lots of tour miles on them) and a photo of Norma's 30-U roadster. I took the photo of the '32 PB at the swap meet and is the very first time I had ever seen it in all of the years I had known Harry.

post-37352-143138110322_thumb.jpg

post-37352-143138110324_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

These are such beautiful roadsters. I have a Model PB coupe that I restored and have driven four times in the Great Race. My roadster had already been altered so I decided to put more modern running gear under the hood, a 1953 Dodge 241 hemi. I'm not cutting anything, so it could be put back original if a person ever decided to do that. Having put over 50,000 miles on my PB coupe over a 47-year time span, I'm of the opinion that they're not well suited to modern traffic, especially interstates. But they sure are beautiful and fun.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

These are such beautiful roadsters. I have a Model PB coupe that I restored and have driven four times in the Great Race. My roadster had already been altered so I decided to put more modern running gear under the hood, a 1953 Dodge 241 hemi. I'm not cutting anything, so it could be put back original if a person ever decided to do that. Having put over 50,000 miles on my PB coupe over a 47-year time span, I'm of the opinion that they're not well suited to modern traffic, especially interstates. But they sure are beautiful and fun.

Oh thank the powers that be that you are sticking with a MoPar engine. Man, I HATE to see a Chevy 350 in everything on the planet!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
  • 5 weeks later...
Guest 32PBRoadster

Hello! Great looking car and project. I am also working on a 32 PB Sports Roadster. Unfortunately it is missing alot, so it will be a challenge. Locating parts has been the biggest issue.

I would be very interested in seeing updates to your thread as you progress. It will certainly help in my own project.

Best of luck!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello! Great looking car and project. I am also working on a 32 PB Sports Roadster. Unfortunately it is missing alot, so it will be a challenge. Locating parts has been the biggest issue.

I would be very interested in seeing updates to your thread as you progress. It will certainly help in my own project.

Best of luck!

What do you need for your car?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest 32PBRoadster

Thank you for your quick response.

It may be somewhat easier to list what is not needed, but I will try to describe the big items as of now.

It was an east coast car, so the body, cowl need the bottom 2" - 4" all the way around. The car has little of the original inner structure. Frame is in decent shape, but bent in two places.

Needs:

Hood, sides, support rods/retainers.

Crank hole cover, radiator spash apron, hood ornament.

Rumble lid and mount brakets.

Bumpers.

Windsheild frame, stantions and all hardware.

Convertible top frame, window, and hardware.

Fuel pump and speedometer gear/retainer and a good manual/diagram for it!

Rear fenders.

Caps for the wire wheels. Wheels are heavily pitted, but I have much more to worry about at this stage.

Here is a link to some pictures of the car.

THE H.A.M.B.

Thank you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I read your first post, I almost knew it was the other one that came from the New Hampshire collection of Mopars :) I really should have persued the Cabriolet, but I saw the C/L ad too late :(

Ah, It don't look so bad :)

Maybe Keiser would know about 2 sources that may still be around? One was Buckeye Rubber Products, Ohio? ...I bought 2 new repro PB bumpers from them in 1986. They made them right there, and they were nice.

2nd was a place I don't recall the name, but they only made windshield frames for all those age cars. They made me a 30 DeSoto roadster winshield frame in chrome, it was ezcellent. Around 1980. The PB was shorter and curved differently on the sides. I think they were in PA, but certainly I am not sure. Back then I either got their name in Hemmings or maybe at Hershey.

I owned a 32 PB cabriolet from 86 to 91.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...Also, on the missing top... search around here on AACA, maybe in the "what is it" forum. Just in the last week or so, a guy wanted info on a roadster top. The top irons and the way they folded, were really like early Mopar. Close enough to make them work, even if the wood bows are too wide/or narrow. I'd be asking that guy if they are for sale..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest 32PBRoadster

Thank you for the tips. I will check into that top. I believe that the stantions will be much more difficult to locate than many of the parts.

While the car has earned some not so rave reviews, and nicknames, from friends and family, I am determined to complete and keep. It is not the first ugly duckilng to grace my garage.:D

I have waited 30 years for a 30s car, I can wait a few more to tackle its rough edges.

Ezduzit, and his progress, is a continued encouragement!

Heck, if nothing else, I have met some great people who share a common respect for the art of motion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Under "What is it?" and "Help ID '20s' roadster top"...looks like it will work for PB Plymouth...there are some folks reproducing the stanchions for the roadster windshields. I will try to find out who it is for you.

post-37352-14313814549_thumb.jpg

post-37352-143138145493_thumb.jpg

post-37352-143138145496_thumb.jpg

post-37352-143138145499_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
Guest MattyGit

Hello all... sorry to barge in here, but I am looking to purchase my first 30 car and came across a local man selling his 1932 Plymouth PB Roadster. I know virtually nothing about this car but am taking the preliminary steps to familiarize myself with it. As I am just setting out to acquire information, I am way down on the learning curve. I will post the four photos of the car that I have, I will have more, once I see the car in person, later this week. I will share more then. Can anyone tell me, 1) how the car appears to you (ones who know the make and model) 2) what should I look out for? 3) What is the relative worth of this automobile, value, asking price etc. and anything else I should be aware of. Other than the fact that is has had a frame off restoration in it's past, I know nothing of the vehicle.... except that it is charming.

I so appreciate anything anyone may offer and will definitely keep you posted of my adventure.

Thanks,

Matt

post-66299-143138169924_thumb.jpg

post-66299-143138169926_thumb.jpg

post-66299-143138169927_thumb.jpg

post-66299-143138169928_thumb.jpg

Edited by MattyGit (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That looks to be a very sweet ride. They run out well. They handle well. Very good stopping ability with the hydraulic brakes. Can be an every day driver with little or no upkeep. I would estimate it's worth to be around $25,000. I got this estimate from a 2004 Old Car Price Guide which may or may not reflect today's value.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The closest car I have owned is a 32 Ply PB convertible coupe with roll up windows, not a roadster. I did also have a 31 PA roadster.

The only thing in those rather small pics that I noticed, is the side view showing a poor? door fitting issue.

The 32 Conv was a steel framed body, the 31 Roadster I had was a wood framed body. If I was forced to make a guess, I would assume a 32 PB roadster is wood framed...but I could be very wrong!

If it is a steel framed body, the door issue would not bother me. If it is a wood framed body, I would be looking at the entire wood framing to make sure it is solid, as well as seeing if it was replaced, and if so, was it done correctly.

I hate to talk value. It varies so much on 10 different PB roadsters that you may find. Ok, to start someplace? 20 grand would be cheap IMO, and if they want 30 grand, I'd be really looking it over good. That's all I'll say.

Hopefully Keiser31 will look it over. I am thinking it looks like a non-rumble seat business roadster? but it has sidemounts?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The closest car I have owned is a 32 Ply PB convertible coupe with roll up windows, not a roadster. I did also have a 31 PA roadster.

The only thing in those rather small pics that I noticed, is the side view showing a poor? door fitting issue.

The 32 Conv was a steel framed body, the 31 Roadster I had was a wood framed body. If I was forced to make a guess, I would assume a 32 PB roadster is wood framed...but I could be very wrong!

If it is a steel framed body, the door issue would not bother me. If it is a wood framed body, I would be looking at the entire wood framing to make sure it is solid, as well as seeing if it was replaced, and if so, was it done correctly.

I hate to talk value. It varies so much on 10 different PB roadsters that you may find. Ok, to start someplace? 20 grand would be cheap IMO, and if they want 30 grand, I'd be really looking it over good. That's all I'll say.

Hopefully Keiser31 will look it over. I am thinking it looks like a non-rumble seat business roadster? but it has sidemounts?

I agree with F&J...it looks to be the "business roadster" with a trunk and not a rumble seat. Usually they had a rear mounted spare. It should look more like the car in the photos I posted earlier in this thread. Some folks opted to add sidemounts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest MattyGit

Ok... here is some more information I just got about the car:

This is a 1932 Plymouth PB Business Roadster, rare model with trunk, completely rebuilt in 1998 by Theodore Houchin in Indiana.

Body is a completely restored frame off restoration but this has a 200 cy 6 cylinder ford engine with automatic transmission. Ideal for driving or parades.

This is one of 325 roadster bodies built with a trunk instead of a rumble seat. It also has a bumper mounted trunk. There are 3 of these bodies known to exist today. Serial PB 36878.

This car was originally delivered in October 1931 and at that time it cost $743.50 plus freight. The car has dual sidemounts, new tires, a new custom canvas top. The car is in excellent shape with two tone paint and a new interior

Any new thoughts? They are asking 30k on one sight and 35k on another... lol... I am local and plan on visiting the car this week.

Attached are some higher resolution pictures.

And, also.... thanks so much for the great input thus far, insight from people who know their stuff means so much.

Matt

post-66299-143138169951_thumb.jpg

post-66299-143138169954_thumb.jpg

post-66299-143138169956_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok it's heavily modified.

That kills the value to a purist, but maybe not so to somebody who just wants to drive it and does not care about resale.

The bumper mounted trunk is not factory, but that's not a big issue.

I'd drive it or be driven in it at the speeds you want to drive. Then listen to see if it's really revving a lot at 60. It likely still has the stock rear axle ratio. That can be changed but it won't be a couple of hundred.

By the way, there were 2 different steering boxes made in 32. The early one steered way too hard when it had some miles of use. The later improved one was very good. I had to find a later one for my car because it was terrible.

The door fit still bothers me. However, if everything is solid, and it does not bother you, then ignore that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest MattyGit

Interesting tidbit I found about the 32 PB:

"

Open car production continued in the 1931 model year with little change but 1932 saw more open cars offered than in any year before or since. The Depression era buyer had a choice of a business roadster, a sport roadster, the phaeton, the convertible coupe or a new two door convertible coach. Incorrectly referred to over the years as a convertible sedan, Card Records officially referred to the car as a Convertible Coach, although factory sales brochures that included the car called it a convertible sedan. At a price of $785 it was the most expensive Plymouth as well and only 690 were built. The model came equipped with dual fender mount spare tires and a special trunk rode on an extended platform at the rear.
"

That may explain a bit more about the trunk and dual fender mounts... or maybe just more questions... I am trying to dig up as much as I can. By the way... all the information I found mention steel... no wood.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

all the information I found mention steel... no wood.

Trust me, MattyGit, there's wood under that body unless someone modified it. I'm in the middle of restoring/replacing the wood in my PB body right now and it's not a trivial job. We're reusing as much of the original as possible, but saturating the old wood with 2-part Qwik Poly to strengthen and protect it. My car had been fairly well protected over the years, but there was still a considerable amount of rot and delamination of laminated parts. Here are a couple of pictures to give you an idea of what's under there:

1878-wood-frame-2.jpg

1877-wood-frame-1.jpg

Edited by ezdusit (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest MattyGit

Thanks BOB... your information is much appreciated.

If/when I do get to see it inh person... is there any place you'd suggest that I give a good look to be able to check for soundness and condition? Being that I've yet to hear back from the seller; I am not sure just how motivated they are.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That would be good if the roadster body is steel framed. EDIT: I just now saw EZDUZIT's ppost about the roadster having a wood framed body. That does not suprise me at all. When you read online about steel bodied 32 Plymouths, that is sort of a half truth from the factory sales pitch. Wood by that time was starting to be a less desirable feature in a new car. Mopar probably knew the roadsters would be gone by 1933 in favor of convertible coupes, so they likely didnot want to invest in new tooling for a steel roadster.

That scares me a bit when I look at the door fit. It's a sign of loose wood, or poorly redone wood.

The trunk looks like it is clamped to the bumper face bar which is not factory. I would think the factory setup should have a folding rack like the 31 Mopars did. The rack is hinged in the middle to lay flat for carrying a generic trunk, or can be folded upright when not in use. Mine had a rear spare, so you should look for other PB pics to see what it should be. At some point I think mopars went to a flat rack that did not fold in the middle. But, like I said, it's only important to the buyer. Most people looking at the car won't know or care, if it all looks nice.

FDR had a PA phaeton, but I can't recall seeing a PB phaeton

Edited by F&J
adding (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest MattyGit

I finally did hear back from the owner(s).

I have another picture (attached):

Here is the blurb they wrote to me:

Engine: Original was a 4 cylinder 196 cu. in. 65 hp with a manual transmission. The replacement engine is a 6 cylinder 200 cu. in. Ford with an automatic transmission but otherwise it is a completely restored 1932 Plymouth PB Business roadster. Details: This is a very rare business roadster built with a trunk instead of a rumble seat. It is one of 325 built. There are 65 of 2163 rumble seat roadsters and 3 of 325 these business roadsters known to still exist. This car has had a total frame off restoration between 1995 and 1998 by Theodore Houchin of Whiteland, Indiana. They also mention it was a wood frame restoration.

Interesting you mention FDRs PA, Eleanor seems to have had quite a time in her 32.

(ELEANOR ROOSEVELT AND HER 1932 PLYMOUTH ROADSTER - eBay (item 200436760225 end time Feb-16-10 15:26:20 PST))

post-66299-143138169981_thumb.jpg

post-66299-143138169984_thumb.jpg

post-66299-143138169987_thumb.jpg

post-66299-143138169989_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

is there any place you'd suggest that I give a good look to be able to check for soundness and condition?

MattyGit,

Water was the enemy of the wood. Look at the places where water might collect, such as around the sill below the bottom of the trunk lid. Also look at the sills below the doors. They're covered with sheet metal where the door opening is, but if you remove the floor mat you should reveal at least part of the sill area.

I get a kick out of the statements regarding how many of certain body styles have survived. I don't think anyone really knows. I do know, from 45 years of looking for parts, that there aren't a lot of these cars left. As I point out on my Hot Rod Roadster Web site, "These cars are exceptionally rare for a number of reasons:

- There were only about 2,500 built (That's a lower production number than the limited edition Mark II Continental!) -- The Model PB was only in production for about 6 months. Compare this number with the 12,600 1932 Ford roadsters built and you may appreciate how hard it is to find a PB Plymouth roadster.

- Much of the body reinforcement was made of wood. In 1932, Chrysler had farmed out all closed car production to the Briggs Body Co., which had transitioned to all-steel construction. The open cars, such as the roadsters, were being built in the old Maxwell Body Works, which still built bodies in the tradition of the carriage builders.

- If the wood-reinforced cars were ever exposed to the elements for very long, they disintegrated.

- The scrap drives of World War II decimated the numbers of surviving early-'30's cars.

- The hot rodders of the 1950's did a pretty good job of further reducing the numbers of survivors.

- It's been nearly eighty years since they were built."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest MattyGit

Bob... Once again... Thanks very much!

You have given me some goood information to start with. I also wonder to myself, how this car has done in the South Florida sun (heat) and humidity (moisture). I don't know if they were better off in a/c controlled environments or not... and of course, even if a seller says they were kept in such a place, no one is ever assured.

I also know that the modified Ford engine is a ding to the 'all original' crowd, but that is not a huge black mark to me. But of course, it does effect the price.

I plan on meeting to see the car in a few days.... but at this point, I am not inclined to offer much more than 22 or 23k for the car. I have scoured the net for auctions that have taken place over the past few years and in 2007 an older resoration Convertible Coupe went for 25k (+ 2k commission). But that had the correct 4 cylinder and driveline... so, there I am not sure. and of course, not sure what my figuring is based on 2007 prices vs. 2010. The one that went at the Barrett-Jackson Auction this year is not in the same league at 47k.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A bit of 32 PB roadster-only trivia.

They were available with an option called the Collegiate Special. (spelling?) This was a paint option that you could order the two tone colors of body and fenders with your schools colors.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest MattyGit
A bit of 32 PB roadster-only trivia.

They were available with an option called the Collegiate Special. (spelling?) This was a paint option that you could order the two tone colors of body and fenders with your schools colors.

I read that... $40 extra... wow!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I finally did hear back from the owner(s).

I have another picture (attached):

Here is the blurb they wrote to me:

Engine: Original was a 4 cylinder 196 cu. in. 65 hp with a manual transmission. The replacement engine is a 6 cylinder 200 cu. in. Ford with an automatic transmission but otherwise it is a completely restored 1932 Plymouth PB Business roadster. Details: This is a very rare business roadster built with a trunk instead of a rumble seat. It is one of 325 built. There are 65 of 2163 rumble seat roadsters and 3 of 325 these business roadsters known to still exist. This car has had a total frame off restoration between 1995 and 1998 by Theodore Houchin of Whiteland, Indiana. They also mention it was a wood frame restoration.

Interesting you mention FDRs PA, Eleanor seems to have had quite a time in her 32.

(ELEANOR ROOSEVELT AND HER 1932 PLYMOUTH ROADSTER - eBay (item 200436760225 end time Feb-16-10 15:26:20 PST))

I would be looking at talking the guy down at least $6,000.00 since the engine, trans and driveshaft have been switched out, in my opinion. I would not call that "completely restored.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...