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New Corvettes at car shows


LINC400

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Time for something with no political ties to argue about. Many of the car shows and cruise nights here only allow cars that are 25 years or older to participate. Unless it is a Corvette. Corvettes of any year are allowed and eligible for trophies. Personally I find driving a Corvette off of the dealership lot and onto a show field nowhere near as impressive as fully restoring or even finding an all original 25+ year old car. I think the 25+ year should apply to all cars not just non-Corvettes. A couple of years ago a club member had a 1984 Citroen that they would not allow into a show because of its age. They however allowed a ton of 1984 and newer Corvettes in. The reason given was because Corvettes or 25 year old cars are unique. When is the last time you saw a 1984 Citroen compared to a newer Corvette? I said they should have just lied about the year because the people at the gate would have had no clue.

I can see wanting to increase cars and attendance at events, but now they are starting to allow new Camaros, Mustangs, Challengers, Chargers, etc. in addition to Corvettes. While these cars are more interesting than a new SUV or mid-size 4 door, I do not think they belong at antique car events. Now since these are more plentiful, you actually might not find a place to park your Hudson or '57 Chevy because it fills up with the new cars.

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At most cruise-ins I attend in MA, I haven't had any problem entering with either of my young '92 Rivieras or the '85 Riv I had last year....except for two...Gillette Stadium Foxboro and Walmart Halifax. These two don't have any written restrictions but they give me a ration of s+@% every time I pull in as I see a whole row of new vettes, mustangs, a '93 Allante along with a couple of chromed-out PT Cruisers sitting there (can you believe that?!).

AND, I'm the only one that shows up with a Riviera!!

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there were brand new PT Cruisers, Prowlers, SSR, Lightnings, Cobras, GT Fords (the GT40 clone), Mustangs at car shows when they 1st came out, same for the Challengers and now Camaros, Corvettes have always been at car shows when they were new

regardless of the YEAR of the vehicle, they ALL have the same common theme, people that enjoy cars for MORE than just transportation and they are "special" to them and others that view them and can only dream about owning one

My personal feeling is that any car should be allowed, are we going to say no 4 doors, just convertibles/roadsters and hardtops/coupes? what about trucks, woodies and station wagons? Those are just as interesting to view

Edited by Jim Rohn (see edit history)
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I Live in W. Ma. and also see late model cars at the cruseins. At one, the best paint award went to a brand new truck with a couple of flames on the fenders.

It is for this reason that I do not register for judging, I just go for the few good cars there.

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My personal feeling is that any car should be allowed, are we going to say no 4 doors, just convertibles/roadsters and hardtops/coupes? what about trucks, woodies and station wagons? Those are just as interesting to view

That is exactly what is being said by allowing in new Corvettes and muscle cars, but not other less than 25 year old vehicles. My friend's father has a 1991 Olds Vista Cruiser wagon (very low production). He has a 1991 Cadillac limousine. When is the last time you saw a 1984 Citroen? But these are not allowed in shows, but new Corvettes are. Of course it is so difficult to clean up and detail a car to look like new that has been off the dealer lot for 3 days. That deserves a trophy.

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Maybe it's just me, but when I see that newer stuff at the car shows, I simply walk faster down the aisle past it and only look at what I want to look at...the OLD RARE stuff. My wife always asks me "Why are those new cars/trucks here?". I tell her that each guy/girl thinks there is something special about his/her own vehicle and love to show it where it will get the most admiration. Showing their vehicle may actually draw some of the owners of newer stuff into getting old stuff.

As far as awards given out...I have never thought much about those because EVERYONE has an idea of what looks best to them. Maybe one judge grew up around Chrysler products as I did so maybe he could be biased. Maybe the next judge grew up in a Model A or muscle car...and so the awards sometimes go to vehicles and make us scratch our heads in wonder. Live and let live? Maybe. It's better than shunning them. I just prefer to ignore them.

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ted sweet...I don't mind the rules of any show. I can tell there are at least 5 of the cars that you list that I would go to a show to see. I used to have a 1968 Roadrunner, a 1970 GTX and a 1968 GTS 383 4 speed car at different times, so I love to see muscle cars, oldies, ratrods, etc. I just like to see most anyone's idea of style.

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if you dont like their rules than dont go.

The problem is this is beginning to be the norm almost everywhere except concours and some other more exclusive events. If I didn't go to anything that allowed new Corvettes, my activities would be cut by about 2/3. If trophies were important to me, I wouldn't be driving the car that I have. However, it annoys me to see beautifully restored 1950's and 1960's cars passed over for one that just rolled off the dealership lot. You can buy nice antique cars for a lot less than a new Corvette, so thinking that a new Corvette owner is just getting into the hobby or will suddenly trade up for an antique doesn't make sense. I think all cars should have to abide by the same year cut-off. Corvettes are nice, but not so spectacular that they are above all other cars.

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"Time for something with no political ties to argue about. Many of the car shows and cruise nights here only allow cars that are 25 years or older to participate. Unless it is a Corvette."

Linc,

This is another thread that will not receive any definitive answers from your targeted local organization unless we really luck out that they are observing this AACA Forum.

What would be interesting is "if" you could take the initiative, contact the local organization you are fired up about, and, see what response they have for us. (I have a good idea what the answer will be, however...)

Peter J.

Edited by Peter J.Heizmann (see edit history)
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This is an interesting debate. I have both old cars and "future collectibles". I don't yet own an old convertible, so when Bonnie and I want to go to a cruise at the local ice cream joint in a convertible, we take her 2003 10th Anniversary SVT Cobra Convertible. We have gone to Ford and Mustang shows with the car and had it judged, but most of the car shows that we attend have the 25 year rule. Ultimately, it is up to the event organizers to determine how much space they have and what kind of event they want to have.

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I normally only attend AACA events so I don't normally have to worry about this. I have attended our local Mustang Club's car show a few times. I only do this because one of my good AACA friends is a member of that club. Their annual show is advertised as an "All Ford Show". They allow ANY vehicle on the showfield as long as it has a Ford engine in it.

My friend is thinking about dropping out of the Mustang Club because the club has become predominately a club for new Mustang owners. The local Ford dealer is one of the club sponsors and every time they sell a Mustang, they give the happy new owner an application to join the Mustang Club. They have many more modern Mustangs in the club than old Mustangs. I just don't get it, but I guess it at least some of those new Mustang folks might get exposed to the old cars at the events and maybe it will produce some old car folks eventually.

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Everyone has a right to their opinion, a few could state things with a bit more tolerance but we are who we are.

I was President of a national car club MANY years ago. The club decided to have a class for cars including the current year of production and make it a judged class. In essence I could do go out and buy a car at a local dealer and win virtually the same award as I would get with any of my pre-war cars. I hated it and thought it was a stupid class. It really got under my skin.

Today, I think I have matured. Despite the fact that AACA is for cars 25 years or older I see nothing wrong with active involvement with people who have newer cars in other events. Who is going to buy the cars we restore when we are done with them? Who is going to keep the hobby alive? At least if someone has an interest in some of the newer cars like we are discussing in the original post, they may buy the '61 Vette or other older Chevrolet. Don't tell me this does not happen as I have been a part of many of these cases. It is the benefit of being in this hobby for 30+ years.

Keep telling people they are unwanted, keep telling people do not touch, keep being intolerant of others positions because they do not believe as you or I do and you know what? This hobby will be gone!

I have heard from far too many people that they could care less about saving the hobby for future generations. They have told me this to my face. Sorry, I think we owe it to history to preserve our automotive heritage.

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I would like to be as clear as possible re: my particular case. I don't have any problem with auto shows. I understand and accept the rules for judged shows. I also understand and accept AACA and CCCA rules and restrictions. I also don't have any problem with cruise-ins that advertise/notify their restrictions.

My issue is only with "open" cruise-ins that THEN limit certain years or models over others upon arrival. One certainly concludes that ALL cars are welcome when there are no restrictions communicated and/or printed on any of their advertisement fliers.

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Guest ken bogren
... "open" cruise-ins that THEN limit certain years or models over others upon arrival....

I kind of think that type of thing is often just an oversight on the promoters part, that then gets dropped to the guy at the "gate" so to speak.

I get several event notices every day from folks wanting me to post them on my website.

A surprising number simple don't provide even basic info, all of which is specifically asked for up front. Things like location, time, city, state etc.

Things like which cars are allowed is VERY commonly not mentioned.

Why is that?

I think it's part of human nature really.

I think people often make an unconscious assumption that because they now these details, everyone does. OK, maybe everyone they know that attends their events does know.

But newcomers probably don't, and that just doesn't get recognized all the time.

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I have a new mustang,and yes,I have taken it to cruise-ins already.I also have some restored big body 60's cars.They are not muscle cars and are not a popular body stlye as in the terms of you seeing them always at a cruise-in.What do you think,by far,gets the most comments?The old stuff of course.

I also do my own local car event website where i see sometimes the car event requests certain years.My AACA club is doing 8 car shows this year,some certain years,some anything goes.My brother-in-law has a newer vette and he takes it to cruise-ins.He is also looking right now for an older vehicle to buy as well.

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I look at it that the folks with new(er) cars are getting an appreciation for the hobby that could result in them keeping their plastic new cars until they're brittle and antiques; or they may get into Model Ts or other older cars as they get passed to a new generation. Truth be told, the only newer cars that have any styling are the retro Dodge, Camaro, Mustang, and Corvettes. Some people may never see a $50k new car up close (you know I wouldn't).

I get a laugh at new cars lined up at car shows, but cruise-ins should be for anyone. Judging new cars is like writing an editorial for Motor Trend magazine. If they aren't, don't go to that one anymore. We had this discussion about hot rods and customized cars earlier. Those folks put a lot of effort into them, and they are a great hobby for some that should have its place. We gets scores of hot rods and new Corvettes and Mustangs at our local cruise-ins. The mix of new, old, and exotic makes them fun events.

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It has nothing to do with young guys getting an interest in the hobby. Young guys generally do not buy new Corvettes. If it is an open to anything car show, that is one thing. However we are talking about everything having to be 25 years old or older. UNLESS it is a Corvette or maybe Mustang. So what about the guy with the '93 tuner Honda, '91 Fleetwood, or '86 Fiero? This is telling them that Corvettes and Mustangs are superior to their cars and allowed in while theirs are not. My friend has a very flashy '85 hearse. Anything was allowed to do the driving cruise, but only 25 year old and older cars were allowed in the show afterwards. Unless it was a Corvette, Then it could be any year. Since the hearse is rather bizarre and flashy, it was waved in. When they asked what year it was, he lied and said '79. No one knew the difference. A local sportscaster was covering the event and said on the news that night that the hearse was his favorite. If my friend told the truth, his car would never have been allowed in. But if it was an '85 Corvette, it would. While there was a ton of Corvettes there, the only Citroen that showed up was turned away because they told the truth and it was off by 2 years.

I attend tons of different shows including cruise nights. My comment is not a complaint about one specific event, but rather that it seems to be getting more common that Corvettes and other muscle cars are seen as superior and do not need a year cut off like all other cars and trucks do. The hearse and Citroen incidents both happened at the Lake Shore Drive Cruise and Show (or whatever the specific name for that was). I do not go to that event anymore. Not because of the Corvette thing, but because they have changed the route and discontinued the show afterwards. So it sucks now.

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Guest slabsided

i totally agree - what is the challenge behind displaying a new car? and what awards of any value could they win - the problem stems from all the marketing ties that these shows have to corporate OEMs - go hang out at a concours d'elegance and you will see what i mean - there is almost as much new stuff as there is old these days - it is difficult to strike the balance between OEMs hocking their new stuff to show goers and respecting the true intent of a VINTAGE car show.

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Guest bkazmer

as you point out, the sponsorship/admissions help fund the show. Park the used cars in the corner where they're easy to ignore.

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Ever since they were introduced 8 years ago, new Minis have been a fixture at every British car show. The Mini, which is made in Great Britain by BMW and is barely considered English even there, is a pretty dirt-common car on the road these days. I'd say they make up a good 3-4% of the field (usually about 10-12 cars) at every "British Car Day" show I've attended since 2001. Normally there are a lot more of them in the spectator parking lot than in the show.

Almost no one from the other classes bother with them, but I've never heard anyone seriously request they be excluded. They're there because they at least in part respect the heritage of the other cars at the show. If they want to try and bathe in that light, hoping a little rubs off on them, so what? The truth is they frequently become next year's vintage cars enthusiasts.

People do gripe about their presence (discretely), but you never hear them disparaging anyone else's presence. They're there to respect us. It's rude to do otherwise.:)

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I think new cars at car shows is ridiculous, especially run of the mill Corvettes. I prefer to take one of my oldies like the 66 Cadillac convertible. In 06 I had a 79 Chrysler 300 I was going to take to a Mopar show, but it was having problems that day so I drove my then new Charger Daytona. Much to my surprise and happiness I was waved right in to the show field. I just locked it and left it and went to enjoy the show. I would have been too embarrassed to talk about it at that type of venue.

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Not a fan of Corvette's at all. I love Margret Cho's take on their owners.

When it comes to seeing new cars mixed in with a cruise, all I can say is, if there's room, they're welcome, if there isn't, park elsewhere and join the fun. If there are rules, they should be honored.

We take our cars to lots of cruises, the largest being Baker's Restaurant in Milford, MI. Sometimes 1500-2000 cars show up. They have enough property that space isn't a problem. I don't mind all the me-too all-American plastic road-racing machines lined up. I just kind of chuckle when I see their owners.

On the other hand, I think that Concours have changed, dramatically. I think the change to showing race cars and motorcycles started at Amelia Island and spread everywhere. I don't know if that was the right thing to do for the genre, but it sure increased the gate. Being mostly charity events, that's what it's all about.

My biggest beef is people that prop their hoods open at Concours. It's a beauty contest guys, not a testosterone-induced fume frenzy. Open your hood when asked, otherwise, keep it and your trophy trunk closed. And please, If I see one more of those idiotic stuffed kids hugging your bumper I think I'll puke.

Sorry. Rant off.

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Our local AACA region has come up with, I think a sound solution to inclusion but at the proper level. At our annual local show we judge AACA eligibile cars only (informally. based on 100 point system, and we are clear that this is not true AACA judging.) and allow any "special interest" vehicle less than 25 years old to current to go into a "special interest" class that is peer judged. They also park more on the perimeter of the show. Has been working well for a few years now, and doesn't seem to hurt attendance, etc.

Hey times are changing - another great local show here was pre-war only but I see this year they are allowing up to 1958. I guess I can live with a 50 year cut off....

Hat's off, BTW to Linc400 for coming up with a great topic about old cars - enough with the politics guys and gals!!!

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Thanks

I think some people are missing the point though. An open to anything car show is one thing. My own car club awards trophies for a 1990 - 1999 and 2000 - new. That is fine. I don't get the point of awarding a trophy to a car that just rolled off the dealer lot. But if it makes someone without an antique car feel included, fine.

My problem is that many places you cannot take your 1985 or newer ANYTHING, BUT you can show ANY Corvette, or sometimes Mustang or other new muscle cars. So why are Corvettes or Mustangs considered so superior that they alone, not Hondas, or Oldsmobiles, or Lincolns or Citroens or anything else newer than 1984, are exempt from the 25 year old rule?

If any year Corvette is allowed, then you should allowed to bring any year of anything else. If cars have to be 25 years old or older, that should include Corvettes as well.

Edited by LINC400 (see edit history)
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My problem is that many places you cannot take your 1985 or newer ANYTHING, BUT you can show ANY Corvette, or sometimes Mustang or other new muscle cars. So why are Corvettes or Mustangs considered so superior that they alone, not Hondas, or Oldsmobiles, or Lincolns or Citroens or anything else newer than 1984, are exempt from the 25 year old rule?

If any year Corvette is allowed, then you should allowed to bring any year of anything else. If cars have to be 25 years old or older, that should include Corvettes as well.

LINC400, I understand what you are saying. Basically it comes down to playing FAVORITES using "exceptions" to rules when it comes to certain makes and models of cars at certain events. I also agree with others that a possible reason for these "exceptions" comes down to sponsors and money.

Maybe a dialog with the people running these events is in order?

Do they realize that the public may view their event's favoitism towards certain makes & models in a NEGATIVE way? That maybe their event has garnered a bad public reputation among car owners due to these exceptions and playing FAVORITES? Then again, maybe the orgainzers do not care and are simply chasing sponsorship dollars.

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I have always noticed this late model thing at local shows, and have always thought it was ridiculous, ever since we were at a small town show in 1980 and someone entered a 1979 Mark V. BUT most local shows and cruises are just looking to include everyone and are not inclined to turn anyone away, so I also just ignore the late models and look at the older cars that I am interested in. I think an actual judging class for late models is a waste of time, but if the organizer wants to have such an exercise then whatever.

I will say though, that our small local club had a cruise a few years ago and specifically opened it up to late model lowrider pickups and tuner cars. I noticed the same bunch of old timers and their same bunch of old cars sat around, and the kids with the lowriders enthusiastically looked at and talked about each other's cars and works in progress. A little fresh blood was refreshing that day, so I TRY to be open minded.

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In judging what is the difference between a new car or truck and a professional money's no limit restoration other than the professional restoration will be better than new. We used to call that over restoration and sometimes deducted points for it. A friend of mine bought a new black Dodge Challenger last year and took it to a local car show, we displayed it next to my Black 1970 Challenger and it made a very interesting display. Although the public liked the 1970 best. Times are changing, if I take my 1916 Peerless to a show like this there is little interest in it but I take my Challenger and it draws people.

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It is too bad about people's disinterest in your Peerless and other such early cars, that is a common issue and just one more reason early cars are so rarely seen now. People's interest in particular old cars is very personal and so hard to quantify. I think it is almost a "peer pressure" sort of thing, in that something is interesting and desireable (and valuable) only when you are familiar enough with it to be interested. If you only ever see Mustangs, Camaros and 1957 Chevys at local shows and a few Mopar musclecars on Barrett & Jackson that is your only point of reference. An early car is so rarely seen that it is just "off the radar". Bring 'em out and enjoy them and maybe (we hope) their virtues can be seen by more people! Maybe the guy there with the 1998 Corvette can be inspired to look backward and expand his horizons, who knows?

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Ahhh...sooo many things to say about this subject. I'll say a few more things about it. Go out and show your car. Go enjoy what you have. Ignore what you don't want to see. Feel good about what your car looks like to you and not what everyone else thinks about it (ie.awards, trophys, etc.). Then go home and realize that you may have influenced another person to go to the more aged cars that we are used to seeing at the old shows. If I ever get turned away from a show because of a newer car getting the space for my 1931 Dodge, I will simply park it on the street and go enjoy the show. I realize that a lot of you are into it for the "show" aspect of the hobby and it's great to show them off. I just don't think we should get all huffy about newer cars at old car shows. Enjoy the mix.

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Believe it or not, this basic question is being cussed and discussed on a hot rodding board - the HAMB. Why do people bring new cars to a show for old hot rods? Many of the answers posted have the same arguments - pro & con - that are being posted here. My slant on it - keep on walking if you don't like 'em.

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Believe it or not, this basic question is being cussed and discussed on a hot rodding board - the HAMB. Why do people bring new cars to a show for old hot rods? Many of the answers posted have the same arguments - pro & con - that are being posted here. My slant on it - keep on walking if you don't like 'em.

Yep!

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Never turn away a customer!

Sometimes it makes the difference between a successful show or not!;)

I have read this whole thread for the last week and I think this sums it up best....I'm new to all this but that is how i see it.

I can see the frustration I guess of an inconsistent policy but I think that is along the lines of bad service at a retail store, rude behavior from others and someone cutting you off on the road. Life's minor annoyances that we all deal with on a day to day basis but we don't let it take away our fun spirit.

Go and enjoy...if you are slighted by your car being turned away then park it and enjoy the day anyways by doing what you planned.....enjoying the auto culture or just drive on to the next event.

Edited by stealthbob (see edit history)
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...I just kind of chuckle when I see their owners... And please, If I see one more of those idiotic stuffed kids hugging your bumper I think I'll puke...

I identify with a couple of Barry's comments.

Typical late model Corvette owners can be easily spotted if they happen not to be hanging near their car--just look for the cigars and gold chains!

Not apparently Corvette-specific, but Big Ditto on those stuffed kids that lean on bumpers too...

I would say I like Corvettes a lot, in general, but I don't find much interest in looking at late model Corvettes when I'm at an antique car show.

There is a big antique car show in our area that has a "display only" class (no judging, but still collect entry fees) for the owners of newer-than-25-years-old cars or all types who are just dying to show off their pride and joys. That seems to be a good way to handle it, in my view.

Edited by stock_steve
messed up the editing of the B.W. quotes slightly (see edit history)
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Cruise in's are informal fun. If car owners see their car as special then in some small way it most likely is. Maybe not to most of us, but promoting the hobby and building awarness in all cars is super important. I welcome cars of all ages that are interesting. Now, on a AACA show field that is another story. I like to see older cars, and bone stock, I don't think modifications like mag wheels and even radial tires have a place in a serious judged event. There has to be at least one place left where a young person can go see a real antique car that is the way it was produced at the factory. Now, don't presume I hate modified cars. They have their place and I have one in my collection, but it is for fun only.

The other day I ran across some photos I took of the Litchfield, Conn Corn Roast Car show in 1970. I took the pictures as a participant and was attending in a 1951 Hudson Hornet (a 19 year old car which was welcome) In one photo I have the line up shows some Cords, one Duesenberg and a Gullwing 300SL Mercedes, about a 14 year old cars. I don't recall anyone sending that guy home back in the day. That was still when AACA was enforcing the 1939 cutoff rule. Boy how things have changed. Can you imagine? This year a 1984 will be accepted. But you know what to those folks who love those later cars, they are still interesting and the future of the car hobby. More power to em.

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