Juha Paavo Kaita Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 Hi!Enclosed is two photos of a car which make I am not able to figur out. I am sure out there is somebody who can help me. This must be high prced car because the seems to be dual windshield.Best wishesJuha KaitanenTurku, Finland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzcarnerd Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Looks like a 1924 Buick 4 cylinder tourer. That is not a dual cowl phaeton, that is just an accessory extra windscreen behind the front seat. Looks to be on Houk wires maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30sclassics Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 On a 1924 Buick, the front of the running board is to the rear of the cowl band. Also fender shape, top of doors is different. Hood latch is different. I don't have a guess yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 The radiator shell also seems to be painted and cathedral in shape......european? Dandy Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Casper Friedrich Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 What about Cole Aero Eight, ca. 1920? I can't remember that I have reard of any examples in my country. But that of course doesn't mean that none was imported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juha Paavo Kaita Posted August 2, 2009 Author Share Posted August 2, 2009 Hi!For some reason Cole sounded very familiar so I went through my old file... And what I found - Bingo! In Turku we have a county archives. Many years ago I have copied almost every auto registration file they have from 1910´s and 1920´s. Record are fracmental. Anyway I found that Oy Littois Ab owned a Cole (it was handwritten and misspelled - Coole) in 1921. The Cole was equipped with 50 hp engine, tire size was 895x195 and body was for 6 persons. Does this information sound right?Oy Littois Ab ( in Swedish, in Finnish the company was called Oy Littoinen Ab) was a cloth factory near Turku. They made fabric out of cotton and linen. At this address you can see a photo of the company: http://www.porssitieto.fi/yhtiot/kuvat/littois.jpgThank you so much for your help!Juha KaitanenTurku, Finland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest geekay Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Here is another mystery car in Finland. No-one here has been able to identify it. The car's registration plate is of the pre-1922 type. (It's 200 H-fors, but that's to no avail because the archive has not been preserved.) The photo is taken on a countryside road near the old church of present day Vantaa just north of Helsinki. For those who are not afraid of some Finnish language there is a large picture including the dusty road on my hobby page:www.filatelia.fi/dx/photos.html(Scroll down to the subheading Cars and then open the very first image link.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Casper Friedrich Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 I think that 200 H:fors could be a big Benz, immediatly pre WWI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 I would love to tour in that, whatever it is. Dandy Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juha Paavo Kaita Posted August 4, 2009 Author Share Posted August 4, 2009 Hi!I try to comment geekay from Turku to Helsinki via AACA forum. I m not so sure the early car in the photo is Benz. It seems that there is no windshield. Then there are small parking light on the front fensers. Also it seems like the radiator is flat - not triangular.Before 1922 register plates were given locally to cars/car owners. Helsinki started to give register plates in 1907 and Turku 1911. In Turku in county archives we have a black book from Turku policestation. When a car owner was given a plate his name was written to this book. Also a the driver of the car was written down and of cource the date plate was given. Maybe such book could be found also from achives in Helsinki.That was time when driving and riding a automobile was great fun - time of sunday ridesJuha KaitanenTurku, Finland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vintman Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Hi,I tend to agree the car from Finland it is probably not a Benz, or a Benz/Mercedes Simplex. Mercedes Knight had a white badge? Radiators were flat until about 1914. Having no windscreen was also a fashion cca 1914. Side lights on the mudguards are very unusual for this period. Likely other candidates of FIAT and Lancia are also unlikely. Could this be American, and could it be a Cadillac??RegardsVintman (UK)Classic Cars, Veteran Cars and Vintage Cars - The Surrey Vintage Vehicle Society Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest geekay Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Grateful for the kind assistance here I have also followed Kaita's advice. In spite of contrary information previously I was able to locate a registration book, but only from 1912 on. According to it car no. 200 was recorded in 1912 to Karl Taxell. However, no car makes are listed in this book and, also, the connection between book number and car registration plate is not totally without doubts.As results of my archive research I have published (in Finnish) complete lists, with an introduction, of all car owners registered in Helsinki in 1912 and in 1924, sorted according to several criteria (for 1924 including the make of the car):www.filatelia.fi/dx/cars/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juha Paavo Kaita Posted August 8, 2009 Author Share Posted August 8, 2009 Hei!Very intersting information on your lists. I have been collecting early auto photos with the help of historical society of Turku. Most of the photos show registration plate. I am planning to produce a database which will show as complete list of early registration plates with information about the make of the car, model of the car, make of the year of the car, who owned the car and is the registration plate black or white. Earlier on registration plates were changed every year. The numeber stayed same but the base color was eithe white or black. Earlyregistration plates in Turku area had just one letter. That was T and the number followed that.Could it be possible to find relatives of Taxell. They could tell if the car is their and what was the make of the car. Or they might have other photos which are better quality.Greetings from TurkuJuha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest brockway Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 What an interesting registration list you have geekay ! The 1924 data sorted according to make of car reveals many interesting details. It is sensational to see such makes as Delaunay-Belleville, Sequeville-Hoyau (!), Kissel and Fulmina listed. I'm sure that one certain editor of one Finnish old car magazine hasn't seen those lists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vintman Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Hi Folks,I tend to agree the car from Finland it is probably not a Benz, or a Benz/Mercedes Simplex. Mercedes Knight had a white badge? Radiators were flat until about 1914. Having no windscreen was also a fashion cca 1914. Side lights on the mudguards are very unusual for this period. Likely other candidates of FIAT and Lancia are also unlikely. Could this be American, and could it be a Cadillac??RegardsVintman (UK)But I was wrong. I gave the second photo to one of our Benz experts who has confirmed that this is a Benz of the 1911-12 period. Photo does not help much in pinpointing which of 25 models it could be apart from it being one of the larger ones. Car has 'tulip phaeton' bodywork. The sidelights are unusual. The hubs were remarkably prominent and therefore a possible identification feature, but on closer inspection, they are in fact Rudge-type wire wheels which did have prominent centres. The Rudge wheels would rule out an American car. He confirmed that many American cars were sold in Scandinavia in Edwardian times. Kind regardsVintman (UK)Classic Cars, Veteran Cars and Vintage Cars - The Surrey Vintage Vehicle Society Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest geekay Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 (edited) Thank you very much. I have added to my web site, with due credit, the information such as it is now known. (For the city of Helsinki the first preserved make distribution, 1924, shows that slightly over 40p.c. of the private cars were American made.) Edited August 15, 2009 by geekay (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest geekay Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 I just found out that Alftan, the company Taxell co-founded, in 1911 became the importer of German N.A.G. automobiles in Finland. But that does not, of course, mean that the car on the photo must be a N.A.G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Casper Friedrich Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 geekay, when you mentioned that Taxell was associated with Walfrid Alfthan, it brings to memory that Alfthan also imported Fiats. Could it be a big Fiat, at least it is not a N.A.G. In the book Fiude, the history of automobile sales in Helsinki, in the caption about Alfthan's there are several pictures of big Fiats, but as I haven't got a copy I can't remember if this car is in the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest geekay Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Yes, you are right, Casper. But the Alftan company only got the Fiat agency starting from the beginning of 1913, and Taxell registered a car with this licence plate "200 H-fors" in 1912 (August?). Only six Fiats were delivered in 1913. Still, a Fiat is not ruled out – neither a Benz.Below is a portrait of Karl Taxell, but as it is not known when this sole photo was shot caution is necessary when comparing. (If it is a younger him sitting in the back seat of that car.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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