Duesenberg?

Hi There, Can anyone ID this neat old car for a friend of mine (her grandma at the wheel!)

Thanks!

Bubbawad,

The car shown is not an early Duesenberg. All Duesenbergs have four wheel brakes, which the car shown does not appear to have. Additionally, the shape of the radiator shell and emblem are not consistent with early Duesenbergs.

Grandpa

Daniels???

Maybe a Stephens Salient Six?

A friend saw the question about the car, thinking it might be a Duesenberg. Here is guess:

"I'm certainly not positive about this, but I'd TENTATIVELY identify it as possibly a Revere -made from 1917-1926, with a Duesenberg engine from '17 to '23. Hard to tell from the angle of the shot and the emblem on the radiator is either incorrect or I'm wrong. Wonder where the car is now. . .probably crushed. . ."

Revere image attached. The Revere radiator shell doesn't match to car to ID.

Grandpa

There were a few car makes that used that body style.

Look at the scale of everything. It is a very big, expensive car, and the bonnet is too long for a big four or a V8 engine. Whoever has a badge book might check that detail, but one car with a very large 6 cylinder engine that might fit in most respects is Crane Simplex. There are a few of those still about. Fred Roe of ACD Club had one. Keith Marvin would be able to identify. From memory there was a Crane Simplex on the 1980 Glidden at Bretton Woods; but there were so many good, rare cars there that without spending miles of film it was just impossible to imprint all you may have wanted to remember.

Ivan Saxton

The mystery car appears to have a square badge which is why I suggested Stephens. Here is a Simplex Crane. Note the triangular badge. http://lh4.ggpht.com/_r3NNtlb8tB8/SN3U6xkbKQI/AAAAAAAAB0E/X0LAW5qZ48U/1917+Simplex+Crane+Model+5+Brewster+Touring-1c.JPG. And another one http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1272/874345878_cbac8a82e4.jpg?v=0

There is a driver sitting at the wheel: You have to look at the proportions. The Stephens was a very moderate sized car in the same price range as Hudson and Studebaker, but very noticeably smaller. The engine was around 3 1/2 litres (without bothering to calculate exactly by the bore/stroke). The engine of this one would have to be at least twice that. Stephens was quite a nice-looking car, which sold quite well to farmers. The agent in Victoria sold farm equipment from the Moline Plow company in the Wimmera wheat belt; and so they decided to import and sell these cars that they made also. In 1964 I spent much of a day looking for one in a certain district; but could not find a trace of it.

If you read Hugo Pfau's book "The Custom Body Era", You can understand that some expensive cars with custom bodies may be impossible to identify as we try to do, because a few clients wanted their car to have a very different appearance than the chassis maker provided. LeBaron would even have a special high quality radiator of different style made. In which case the badge could also be different, or absent.

Several of the very first Duesenberg passenger cars had a radiator without the moulding, which had some similarity to this one. But as Grandpa Allen says, they had four whell hydraulic brakes from the beginning and ther is very little resemblance in this one. And the scale/proportions are quite different. I do have enough to restore 1922 and 1923 A model Duesenbergs, the earlier being from the first 6 months of production. I know them reasonably well. Ivan Saxton

Disappointing as many people find it, the engine size of many old cars simply wasn't very big, really only the same as more modern stuff. The Stephens engine was actually a little over 4 litres, comparable with the comtemporary Buick and just a few cubic inches smaller than the Model A Duesenberg, although not in the same league power- or dollar-wise. Only a small number of makes had engines bigger than 6 litres. I agree that this car is probably not a Stephens, but it does look similar - even down the shape of the radiator badge. I knew someone who restored one of these about 30 years ago - I think the car is now in a museum in Europe. Hopefully someone more expert than us can maybe identify this car from the lights or something.

I think this is a Haynes 4 pass Tourister of about 21 or 22. Tough to tell.

Bob McAnlis

The attached image is a VERY early Duesenberg Model A. The car is pictured in front of the White House. In many ways, the Duesenberg Model A was a scaled-up version of their racecar. These passenger cars were generally smaller, lighter, and faster than other luxury cars of the early and mid 1920s.

Grandpa

Here is a 1921 Haynes - http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1164/677232264_a47c84b1a4.jpg?v=0 - the radiator shape doesn't match.

This looks like it has one of the horizontal valve high camshaft walking beam 8 cyl engines the same bore/stroke as the production A. Because the camera angle is unusually low you can match that detail of the sump with the prototype engine. Only photos of the first prototype that was at the NY Show in Nov 1920 with United body, and the second car which had a Fleeetwood roadster body are widely published. Both had step plates instead of running boards, as this car has; and so of course the mudguards are quite different. It is almost certain that the few prototype cars which were the same bore/stroke as the production A Duesenberg were converted to standard A type and sold. The chassis frame which came to me from Montana was almost certainly from one of these prototype cars originally. The original serial number 333 was defaced, and the 1923 serial number 808 was stamped twice nearby. When Alan Powell from Melbourne bought his A from the factory in 1923, he saw an earier car being re-manufactured. You should run this photo past Fred Roe the early Duesenberg historian for his comments. Ivan Saxton

On 6/30/2009 at 7:37 PM, Guest Bubbawad said:

Hi There, Can anyone ID this neat old car for a friend of mine (her grandma at the wheel!)

Thanks!

1916 - 1917 Cole Model 860/ 861 Victoria