Same car ?? .... and what is it / are they??

Hi Folks,

Another one from our Help Page. Photo taken in UK. Body looks British, as does the registration. Registration seems to be the same number on both cars. Body looks the same on both cars. Rad looks entirely different. Rad shape/hood line looks American of the White type cca 1909/11, petrol engined. None of the other crinkle bonnet Americans quite match. Not really a British front. Some semblances to French cars of the period, except that the French went for a positive crease in the bonnet. Is it the same car with updated radiator??

Overall puzzled. Kind Regards

Vintman (UK)

www.svvs.org

I'm guessing the same car, different radiator. Registration also looks like it could be Connecticut, USA.

The guy on the right in the top pic and the driver in the lower pic look to be the same fellow.

Also, not just the rad is different but the whole cowl and hood are taller in relation to the fender on the top pic.

Check the relationship of the side hood hinge to the fender top. The windshield is also a bit taller in the top pic in relation to the top of the front seat.

The drivers seat armrest is also a little taller in relation to the spare tire in the top pic.

Almost seems like a total body lift to accommodate the taller rad because the space between the top of the hood and bottom of the windshield is constant between the two pics.

The rad cap is also a bit different.

I bet there is an interesting story behind that car!

The frame horns almost look longer on the upper car. Could be two different sized models of the same year/make of car like Cartercar and other makers did.

CutNChop and keiser31 —

I think both of you have been fooled by a slight change in elevation and angle for the two photos. The first photo was taken from a higher point than the second and the "angle off the bow" is also a bit different in the second. This change in position makes big differences in how objects not in the same plane appear in relation to each other. Try an experiment with one of your own cars and see how a change in observation position changes the appearance of various elements of the car and their relationships to each other.

I believe it is the same car with the noted different radiator and the removal, (or addition), of the headlights.

Pete P.

In the second pic it looks like a Minerva.

Pete I agree. I think that one of the photos has possibly been "squeezed" as well, causing it to look different.

I agree that it is the same car. Just take a look at the license plate- both are C-400. The top photo has a longer rear patent leather fender, though.

I think that the rear fender is disappearing because of the bright light.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: twistwrench</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I agree that it is the same car. Just take a look at the license plate- both are C-400. The top photo has a longer rear patent leather fender, though. </div></div>

Mark? Is that you?

I agree with Keiser. The rear fender is lost in the brightness.

Hi all,

Thanks for the input. Our enquirer has confirmed the photos were taken in UK. Thanks also to nzcarnerd for your thought of Minerva. I had considered this seriously but have not been able to find picture of any Minerva with the larger radiator shown on the top photo. Minerva were handled in the UK by CS Rolls. I have subsequently superimposed and distorted the two photos to match the angles, which does show up the remarkable similarities (see below). The bodies are near enough a perfect mach, - but then they would be if made by the same coachwork company. The newer photo has a rad that has a deeply curved bottom, cca 1906 to 1908, no later. There does seem to be a change in profile of the bonnet; marginally lower centre on the older photo. Bonnet louvers seem the same although earlier cars appear to have an add-on louver section. However the number of spokes and the spoke profile is different, so the wheels must have been changed too. So, - if it is a Minerva, does anybody have a photo of an early Minerva, and if so what year, with the rad of the type on the top photo?? The registration, or that which is visible, only helps to confuse. C is West Riding of Yorkshire but dating info is lost. C started 1904 and changed to WR in 1915, If 400 then it would be correct for about 1905. The lower picture suggest possibly a further figure, which would make it 4000 odd. Possibly suitable for the latter rad but not earlier rad?!

Kind Regards

Vintman (UK)

www.svvs.org

I think it is safe to rule out anything built in the USA. The horn, headlamp and tires all look European to me.

Top car Type G 22 HP Minerva late 1905 early 1906, one below less easy most likely 1909/10 Type R 16 HP or 1911 Type W 16 HO sleeve valve or could be a marginally earlier small poppet valve Minerva.

I own one like the top car and have resored but don't own one like the lower car.

Bill Sides Melbourne Australia