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2doorcoupeman

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I doubt that 99.99% of the world's scientists are liars. I just think that the ones that support conclusions based on massaged data that are then foisted upon us by failed politicians for personal gain are suspect......What would YOU do?

JMC

What would I do?

I'd wonder why 99.99% of the people with Ph.D.s in the subject can't identify "massaged data", since that is the real percentage of degreed people in the profession who are trying to fix this, not fight it. But that's just me.twocents.gif

The world has passed this argument by. If it makes CO2, it is no longer a solution to anyone's future energy needs in the minds of anyone who matters at this point, either in government, business, industry, or academia. Either accept that, or find yourself (literally and figuratively) tilting at an ever increasing number of (real) windmills, banghead.gif

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Guest John Chapman
What would I do?

I'd wonder why 99.99% of the people with Ph.D.s in the subject can't identify "massaged data", since that is the real percentage of degreed people in the profession who are trying to fix this, not fight it. But that's just me.twocents.gif

The world has passed this argument by. If it makes CO2, it is no longer a solution to anyone's future energy needs in the minds of anyone who matters at this point, either in government, business, industry, or academia. Either accept that, or find yourself (literally and figuratively) tilting at an ever increasing number of (real) windmills, banghead.gif

Balderdash.

JMC

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Balderdash.

JMC

Balderdash....that has the support of thousands of PhDs and tens of thousands of M.S. degreed and post-graduate educated professionals in the field, none of whom own a single windmill generator or hydro-electric plant or ethanol facility, every one of which supports themselves/their family on less than $60K/yr. (usually MUCH less), and every one of which has independently produced and peer-reviewed the "massaged data" (in dozens of specialized fields of interest) hundreds of thousands of times (probably millions by now) over and over at hundreds of universities and institutes throughout the free and not-so-free world.

Really John, you'd have a better case trying to disprove the existence of nuclear fission, hands down. If there is an undeniable weight of evidence in all of science, this is it. There's a reason this argument is over and the world's moving on to solutions. and that's it.

This is going to effect the hobby greatly in the coming 5-10 years. It has the potential of even ending the hobby if we fail to come to grips with this problem and react accordingly, instead of playing ostrich and hoping the worms will whisper a better answer to us. Denying the undeniably proven dangers of what we do (and the related dangers of other types of fossil fuel use) lends credence to those who would greatly exaggerate them, and who would use that to make our collector cars prisoners in museums of an (unjustly declared) inglorious past.

We're not harpooning whales or auctioning slaves, but near long term we are in danger of being put on a shelf with those who did. Stop helping those who would see that happen soon!

Edited by Dave@Moon
added "related dangers" phrase (see edit history)
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Guest John Chapman

Uhhh.... lemme see... the climate is changing. Yep. Weather has been changing for... oh, 1.5 million years or so, right?

1. The ballyhoo of global warming has yet to explain why we've been cooling off for over a decade.

2. The IPCC's vaunted 2500 scientists is really <50 who have read the IPCC annual reports and <10 who have actually signed off on it. My numbers are generous. I'd invite your attention to the front matter of the annual IPCC reports available for scutiny from the UN.

3. The lies, the lies, the lies. The pranksters at CRU have been outed. If you begin with an agenda and then create the science to support that agenda, that is not science. It's a lie.

4. The IPCC is corrupt beyond the pale of the definition, yet our inglorious leadership continues to march toward the cliff of idiotic policy to correct a problem by implementing rule that will have no effect other than to transfer billions of dollars from productive uses to the pockets of the UN bureaucracy and thence to the accounts of countless third world despots.

5. I will never doubt the need for us to become more efficient, conserve resources, and develop realistic policies that will lead us to energy independence. I also see the potential for huge impacts on our hobby if the current path is continued. That's why we need to cease this Alinsky-like approach (Rule 5. "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon (e.g. 'denier' vs. skeptic) and Rule 13. "Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.") to policy making and do some real work.

You can continue to defend you position along with "the support of thousands of PhDs and tens of thousands of M.S. degreed and post-graduate educated professionals in the field" and ignore the reasoned and well developed arguments against AGW as you see fit. As for me, I'm disgusted with current policy to the point that I'm considering selling my Buick and distribuing money to help elect folks that have a reasonable approach to governing. You can bet Algore, Waxman, et al won't be on the list.

Seeing that we've beaten this horse before, I'll let my comments stand. Reply if you wish, but I've said my piece and am complete.

Cheers,

JMC

Edited by John Chapman (see edit history)
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I'm sorry for some of the posts I had delete from this thread. Everyone should have taken John Chapman's advice and stopped at his last post.

And, Dave? We're all getting a little tired of your continuous "banging on your environmental drum". Everyone here is very aware of where you stand on these issues. It's not necessary to have to keep reminding us of your position.:rolleyes:

Wayne

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