Is this a White Steamer ?

Hi Folks,

After a bit of help again please. We have received the following photo on our Help Page. I am relatively sure it is a White but my newly acquired Standard Catalogue does not come up with a matching picture. The bulkhead suggests around 1909/11, as does the coachwork. However the car has louvers rather than open mesh on the sides of the bonnet, and seems to have a very bulky engine bottom half. The ‘bulk’ suggest it could be a steamer but nothing like it on any photos I have seen. If it is a petrol car, - what is the ‘bulky’ bit for?? Any help would be much appreciated.

I presume it is a White??

Regards

Vintman (UK)

www.svvs.org

Would a steam car have a crank to start it?

Good point !!

Vintman (UK)

www.svvs.org

Looks like a 1907-08 Maxwell at first glance, but the steering wheels is on the wrong side for that early. Photo could be flopped.

Vintman;(and yes West, you are right, this is a Maxwell; i.e. picture must be reversed) this appears to be a 1907/1908 Maxwell two cylinder touring car.. As Curti has already noted, there is a crank protruding from the front lower part of the radiator. Also, note the protuberance on the side of the hood, midway back, at the bottom. This protuberance,(for the want of a better name), exists on each side of the hood to accomodatethe spark plugs, I believe;i.e. one on each side of coarse since it is a two cylinder engine. This protuberance or door, is peculiar to the Maxwell only.

regards; jerry janson

West seems to be right, if looking at a 1909 Maxwell model LD runabout HAC in the American Cars you can clearly see the curve between the hood and wheel,when looking at the front wheel there are some stickup between every spoke as on the asked photo.

Leif in Sweden.

Does this make it look better? ...B

Thanks West. Spot on. I was questioning the dumbirons and other aspects of it being a White, yet the profile of the rad top was so very White. And thanks to Oldiron for the 'protuberance' answer. Lots of metal just to cover a spark plug. Looks impressive though. I noted when reading up on the White that they changed over the steering side round about 1910. So perhaps Maxwell may have too?? Thanks again folks.

Regards

Vintman (UK)

www.svvs.org

Happy looking bunch of folks!!

You can open that "protuberance" without opening the whole hood. This allowed one to check or change the spark plug without having to open the whole hood.

The White has a much softer radiator shell top than the Maxwell. There are no really crisp edges on the top of the White radiator.

Here is a 1908 2 cylinder model HC Maxwell. Looks like the same car with European headlamps.

This is a 1905 Maxwell Model H as that was the first and only year the rear door was arched on top,this door was constructed in a manner they considered a safety feature to keep young ones in , that being opening inward, 1906 models had this feature as well,changing to opening outward in 1907, guess too many people had to lift/swing their legs to allow someone else to enter or exit? It is later 1905 as it has a 4 spoke steering wheel instead of 3 spoke and is lacking the hinged front fenders. It had no water pump as it is thermo siphon system cooling. The engine was a 16 HP. twin cylinder opposed and was cast in aluminum with the transmission as one piece.

Thanks to all much appreciated. Lovely photo from West. Really great to learn snippets otherwise known only to the specialist. On my XJS, to get at the plugs includes the removal of most of the air conditioning system, and then having a home made offset spanner. The space does however seem to be adequate and very good for mice building their nest in ! Pesky thing bit through the LT cable just where it enters the distributor. Took ages to locate the problem. Now I look under the bonnet after a few days, after laying the car up! Anyway, thanks Keiser31 for the photos and thanks also for JOBO’s detailed input. What would be the model name/number??

Regards

Vintman (UK)

www.svvs.org

Maybe a Model H 1905. Except.....the door handle is on the front of the rear door which they did in 1907.

Keiser.

I realize he was responding to you, but I'm sure he was talking about the original photo at the top of this post. Notice the rounded top on the rear door.

West, interestingly, my Maxwell literature shows no "round topped" rear door. What year was that used on? I am certainly always willing to learn. John

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JO BO</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> This is a 1905 Maxwell as that was the first and only year the rear door was arched on top and opened inward. It is later 1905 as it has a 4 spoke steering wheel instead of 3 and is lacking the hinged front fenders. It had no water pump as it is thermal syphon system cooling. The engine was a 16 HP. twin cylinder opposed and was cast in aluminum with the transmission as one piece. </div></div>

There is a photo in the Standard catalog of the 1905 Model H with the round-top door.

Here is the 1905 and I see no round topped rear door.

JO BO

Can you explain about the "hinged front fender" feature. I'm not familiar with that. What was the purpose?

Once again....West comes through. Anyways......the first car in question is not a White Steamer.

I'm sorry Keiser31. Yes I was referring to the original posted picture and not the second model you posted which is a 1906 HA. The front horns were changed from 05' as well as body contours.( note the body lines on the seat pans) The hinge feature was only offered on the earliest H models and the hinge area was a few inches from the bottom of the front fender and roughly 1-2 inches below where the fender attached to the running board. I assume this feature was so the fender wouldn't be bent during e.g. mud/snow compaction, rough road ruts, and to further stop splash to vehicle occupants. I assume it was impractible or cost prohibitive to continue it so the newer fender became shorter.

Hello , I thought I would get these pictures on , showing the 1905 Maxwell models ....Wes there is a shot of the hinged front fender you requested , sorry it took so long to get it to you. Note the rounded top door on the rear of the touring. ( only on 1905) Also Wes my parts book shows the fender hinge pieces available for 1.00 for the pair ,.. mud guards.

Another White steamer characteristic is a second, smaller wheel atop the steering wheel: this controls the steam throttle.

Thanks Jo Bo.

Here are my thoughts , other opinions are invited, In the picture containing both models , (the L and the H) the caption reads midwinter, it is my belief that this picture was taken between Dec 1904 -March 1905 .....as the L model is the armored oak version ( according to an article dated nov 12th 1904 the L's oak frame was by November 1904 changed to steel like the H. The H has the front fender hinge flaps, and appears to have the three spoke steering wheel ...thus very very early 1905 models. Any other thoughts?

Here are a couple more pictures of the early Maxwells

Mr Briscoe, with his left hand demonstrates how the rear door opens inward ( considered a safety feature, prevents people from falling out).....also a view of the early early H chassis shows the three spoke steering wheel, later 05's had the four spoke wheel.