Jump to content

chrysler 323.5 eights


Guest 40packard

Recommended Posts

Guest 40packard

I'd like to hear a discussion of the pro and cons of the 323.5 eights. I've got a 1939 New Yorker. I've rebuilt the engine with hardened seats etc. and I'm getting it ready for spring. I had a '39 Royal Windsor and a '40 Windsor a combined total of 36 years. The 241.5 six was a wonderful, powerful, fuel efficient, and dependable engine. Any thoughts on the eight? Thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a 1940 Saratoga and I find the straight eight to be a wonderful responsive engine and smooth as silk. Considering the Chrysler used the same 323.5 engine from 1936 through 1950 with no significant changes indicates that they wre very happy with this powerplant too. While not quite up to Packard eight standards, it was a lot of engine for the money. Chuck Neuhaus, South Carolina

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have several 1946-8 chrysler cars with the 8 cyl. engines. they are very reliable with good care- oil changes ect. High mileage engines have tendancy to wear out the ring lands. Exhaust manifolds are a problem and water pumps pricey- other than that they run as smooth as butter!

Bob

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest imported_BaronvonR

I have a 1950 Imperial with hydraulic lifters....a rather rare engine...the last year for the straight 8. I have done a fair amount of hiway driving and get around 15+ mpg. Dont forget the car weighs over 4000#

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I believe back in the 40s and 50s these cars were known for reliability including an ability for high mileage, and a bit fuel-guzzling. The Fluid Drive combination was supposedly excellent on slippery winter roads.

My own experience after 20000 miles in a 40 NewYorker is also of reliability and fuel-thirst (especially compared to the tank-size). The engine has excellent torque, the overdrive transmission is a treat and will give 70+ mph cruising speed, the Fluid Drive is the only thing denying brisk (for a 60-year old car) acceleration. 110 F outside temperatures does not pose a problem. Rusted 3-piece exhaust manifolds (prolonged standing still) will crack when warmed throughout, and needs to be checked for straightness in order not to develop leaks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest 40packard

Thanks Narve for the info on fuel. I too have heard that the eights weren't the most fuel efficient of the chryslers. I had a '40 windsor for 13 years, drove it most every day in the spring, summer, and fall. The lines and especially the front end were great. Good auto. I then had a '39 Royal Windsor for 23 years. Also a great car. The New Yorker that I'm working on is a beautiful car with duel sidemounts. I put hardened valve seats etc in the engine to run on unleaded. I also had it balenced from the vibration dampner thru the clutch. I just have never had a lot of experience with the chrysler straight eight. So thank you all for the blogging.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A more exact figure of fuel consumption is that the car did average 19 liters of fuel pr 100 km on mixed driving(do not have the table for conversion into mpg, something like 11 mpg?).

Besides being fond of the bulbous shape of 40s Chryslers, I also have learned to appreciate their easiness of driving and reliability. Although only one of the fenders is visible from the driving position!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I thought that the SpitFire straight 6 and 8 Flathead engines had hardened valve seats from the factory. I reasoned this because lead doping didn't really get going until the 1950s. Lead was added to stop pinging/pinking (detonation), but as a side effect it lubricated the top end so well that hardened valve seats were no longer required. It means that older cars, such as my 1948 Daimler, have hardened valve seats.

So, I did not think that lead was being added to gasoline as early as 1939. Have I been wrong all this time, and the Chrysler Eights have soft valve seats ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest 40packard

Well now, that's interesting. I never had any idea that lead wasn't used from the git go. But hey, if they used hardened seats that would be a great thing. Any body else know when lead started to be used in gasoline?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In the US, at least, the use of tetra-ethyl lead as a gasoline additive dates from the 1920's. See

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Midgley,_Jr.

From the 1930s through the 1950s, it was common to refer to a gasoline company's premium-grade (higher octane) fuel as "Ethyl," as in "fill 'er up with ethyl, please." A book I have on the history of the Richfield Oil Corporation (now ARCO) contains a 1930 advertisement mentioning Richfield Ethyl gasoline.

Doug

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

I believe the seats were hardened from the factory. Leaded gas was not available from all refiners in the old days, so that product was not in universal use.

The Chrysler-8 exhaust manifold is a fancy piece of casting-work, and you want to avoid breaking it! I check my heat riser frequently, and give both sides of the flapper-pivot a squirt of carb cleaner.

If the flapper sticks closed ("cold' position) heat build-up can result in a cracked manifold.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest 40packard

Well this is all good to know. My eight has been 'pickled for a few years and should be running by spring. I also have a little Royal Six as well. I'll probably rebuild the eng in it as well at some point, so might just drive it without lead additive for a spell and see what happens.

I remember my parent putting 'ethyl' in their cars every once in a while and then driving at high speed on the highway to 'blow them out'.

Hey, whatever works. Thanks for the comeback.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

Leaded gas was introduced in 1928 but the amount used was small. Chrysler flathead engines all had exhaust valve seat inserts. For that matter so did the early hemi V8s.

You don't need intake valve inserts because the intake valves don't get that hot.

Any flathead Chrysler made will run fine on low lead or unleaded gas of 70 octane. Older ones will run on 60 octane. Higher octane will not make them run better, in fact they will run smoother and cooler, start easier and develop more power on low octane gas.

You don't need to rebuild your engine to run on unleaded gas.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest 40packard

Rusty, Thanks for the info. I'm currently running my '39 Royal six on unleaded and will continue to do so. I've always bought the lead substitute before so this is a bit cheaper which these days is a good thing. Drake

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some people even add a little kerosene to reduce the octane for their old low compression engines. They report easier starting, cooler running, and more power.

We had some discussion of this before and one guy stated that he ran his 1932 Buick for thousands of miles on 3 parts gas to 1 part kerosene, including towing a trailer. The 1932 Buick had very low compression, 4.5:1 and ran best on very low octane fuel.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

3.9.09

Bill+ Co.

I have a 36 c-10 Imperial Airflow undergoing complete rebuild,for an endurance rally for 9/10. Peking to Paris

Q: You mention the flappers-I assume the manifold heat control.

Is that problematic?? I was planning on removing for Murphy's Law.

Q: Are there any "weak" points to the engine, like carb,manifold distributor,clutch;etc, that you recall?

THANKS:

Monte

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

All I can say is, most of the time when one of those old motors fails it is because someone got smart and thought he could improve on it.

It turns out the original design was better when the new improvements fail. The old timers got it right. Maybe not the first time but by the time they made a 1,000,000 of them they pretty much worked the bugs out.

For a trip like that I would stick as close as possible to original with the possible exception of electronic ignition. It won't help much but everyone insists on putting it on.

But, I would keep a set of points in the tool kit for when the electronic failed.

I would not increase compression or change anything else.

As to whether there are any weak points. There is a very savvy group at the Chrysler Imperial club. If you do a web search for 1936 Imperial you are bound to turn them up. They should be able to tell you all about the straight eight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest townsend

I have a 1950 new yorker coupe with 95,000 miles. Engine runs smooth and quiet but oil pressure falls off when hot and rear oil seal leaks. Is low oil pressure symptom of loose main brgs? If so, what should clearance be and is best way to adjust to shim assuming that bearing and crank surface look good? pressure is 40 at cold fast idle, 20 at cold slow idle, 30 at warm fast idle, 10 at warm slow idle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

Your oil pressure readings are pretty good considering. Factory specs call for 45 pounds pressure at 45 MPH according to my 1954 Motor Repair Manual.

There is no shimming or adjusting of bearings. Chrysler pioneered the modern insert bearing in 1934. Your Chrysler has the same type bearings as the typical 2009 car. You just buy new bearings.

If it was my car I would do a compression test and if the compression readings were halfway decent I would not do anything.

By the way I envy you. A 1950 straight eight New Yorker coupe is a rare car and one I admire.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

6.13.09

Rusty;

Thanks for the update.

For 36 C-10 Imperial.

We are keeping distributor stock. Only changing to 12 v from 6v.

Up rating springs and adding vertical shocks in lieu of dampers.

Using Holley Electric fuel pumps(2) and John Deere filters(2) for fuel lines.

Otherwise she has been magna fluxed and rebuilt Engine to Axles

Monte

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...
Guest hudsoninbury

I came across this discussion regarding the straight eight. I also have a 1950 New Yorker Coupe whh has an engine rebuild. The car is almost ready to go back on the road but now I am having new rear mounts and more important, a new drag link manufactured. The old link is worn and I cannot find another, so are manufactuing one which hopefully will be even stronger than the original, then I can at last tryout the engine after its rebuild.... but all the discussion here has been very interestng.. My cr has a button on the end of the gear lever and we are not sure what it is for and if it works. Is it an over drive??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hudsoninbury--

If your car has Fluid Drive and the M6 semi-automatic transmission (called Prestomatic in the 1950 models, IIRC), then the button at the end of the gear lever is likely wired to cause the transmission to downshift. The downshift is from 4th to 3rd gear in the Driving Range or from 2nd to 1st gear in the Power Range position of the gear lever.

The same downshift can be obtained by pressing the accelerator pedal to the floor, but the pushbutton downshift is smoother, especially if you slightly increase pressure on the accelerator while downshifting to allow the engine to speed up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest hudsoninbury
hudsoninbury--

If your car has Fluid Drive and the M6 semi-automatic transmission (called Prestomatic in the 1950 models, IIRC), then the button at the end of the gear lever is likely wired to cause the transmission to downshift. The downshift is from 4th to 3rd gear in the Driving Range or from 2nd to 1st gear in the Power Range position of the gear lever.

The same downshift can be obtained by pressing the accelerator pedal to the floor, but the pushbutton downshift is smoother, especially if you slightly increase pressure on the accelerator while downshifting to allow the engine to speed up.

Hi -thanks for that ..it makes sense .. will check out the wiring

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest BaronvonR

I just rebuilt my 1950 Imperial Deluxe engine and the oil pressure is about 60 cold and when hot runs at 50....hot idle is above 20. Now my engine is a bit unusual as it is one of the ones Chrysler built in 1950 with hydraulic lifters...now they were VERY hard to find...but OH SO QUIET!!!!

I would check your oil pump to see if it needs work and also the oil pressure relief valve spring on the side of the block may be weak...shims help there.

just some suggestions

Edited by BaronvonR (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 years later...
Guest Tusler 49 New Yorker

I went out on a cruise the other day with my 49 New Yorker, filled it up, drove 100 miles at 60 mph and filled it up again with 10 gal so I guess I need to add carb rebuild to my to do list if I should be getting 15 mpg.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I went out on a cruise the other day with my 49 New Yorker, filled it up, drove 100 miles at 60 mph and filled it up again with 10 gal so I guess I need to add carb rebuild to my to do list if I should be getting 15 mpg.

Start with a compression test and tuneup. Those old Chrysler flatheads are very well behaved, even with high miles on them. Can be in an advanced state of wear and will still start and run quietly and smoothly, but down on power and mileage. A compression test, and oil pressure will tell how worn or how good the engine is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
Guest Tusler 49 New Yorker

Well you are right on target again. I changed the plugs, wires, cap and stuff and it did make a difference, when I hit the key it springs to life now instead of turning over 4 or 5 times first.

I did the compression test and found the problem. #1=72, #2=72, #3=80, #4=100, #5=95, #6=70, #7=65 and #8=90. The engine still ticks over and runs smooth. I am guessing since the car sat inside for 40 years not being run that the rings are not ringing correctly. So I am going to eventually get a refresh kit from Kanter or someone and put new parts in the motor to freshen it. In the mean time I can still cruise it, it just cost a little more gas I guess.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Tusler 49 New Yorker

I am getting quite a bit of blowby out the filler but very little if any smoke out the exhaust. so I am pretty sure its the rings. I am going to go ahead and have the engine redone so I dont have any problems while cruising around out here in the desert.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...
Guest Tusler 49 New Yorker

To update...c49er, you sure were right on. I had broken top rings on piston #1,2, & 3. all the rest were fine. The #8 rod bearing was the only one that showed some wear. I cleaned it all up, the valves and seats looked ok so I did not break them.

I put new bearings and honed the cyl's and put rings in it and checked the head for flat, (it's real close) torqued everything up 3 times and its working without the knocking when it is first started. I re-did the wiring between the Carb, Trans, and the resistor/breaker it upshifts correctly consistantly and once in a while even surprises me by downshifting correctly when I come to a stop. I cruised it for 65 miles today in the triple digit heat and it stayed at 40 lbs of oil pressure and did not go past 200 on the temp. I'll fill it up and take it out for couple of hundred miles on the freeway and check the mileage in the near future.

I do have a question though, it did this before I worked on it and it still does it. When I first start it up cold it spits water out the tail pipe, not a lot, just a little on the ground. Why?

There is no water in the oil and the level in the radiator never drops.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Water out the tail pipe when cold is normal especially in cool weather. When you burn a gallon of gas it turns into 1.07 gallons of water. You sometimes see water dripping out, then clouds of steam as the tail pipe gets warmer, finally nothing when it is good and hot.

If your trans does not down shift consistently, clean the points on the governor. It is one of the can shaped gadgets on the right side of the trans. You can get at it thru a removable plate in the floor or from under the car. The points are silver so go easy, clean out any oil and dirt with brake clean spray or contact cleaner, and drag a piece of white paper between the points until it comes out clean. You may have to do this every 50 years or so.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 7 years later...

I would love to see a photo of the hydraulic lifters in the late 1949 and 1950 Chrysler 8's.  I would also like to see what modifications they did to the engine blocks to feed the lifters with oil.

 

I am building a very special flathead six and I would love to use hydraulic lifters in it.

 

Anyone have an photos of their rebuild?

 

Thanks, James

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know why you want hydraulic lifters when solids are better and quieter. If adjusted occasionally will stay quiet for the life of the car which is more than you can say of hydraulics. I don't know where you would even get them, you can hardly get good ones anymore for later model pushrod  V8 engines.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have known of a couple of people over the years with Imperials from 1949 and 1950 that love the tappets. Much quieter than the solid lifters. Hydraulic tappets only get noisy if you don't keep your oil clean which in my case never happens.

 

I am also going to be doing some things on this engine that will make it a little harder to get the side covers off. Not impossible, just more work. If I use hydraulic tappets, I can seal the side covers using stronger sealant and not worry about having to clean it off every few years to get them off and on without leaking.

 

This car is going to be used extensively to travel the USA and I am looking for ways to make it easier on my bad back. Not like you can stop into any shop anymore and find people who have the knowledge or experience to quickly and correctly adjust valves. Hell, most of these kids cannot set a point dizzy or carburetor.

 

James.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...