Interesting 1916 Car - Identification please?

Hi Folks,

Thanks to all for previous help. We at the Surrey Vintage Vehicle Society (United Kingdom) have an active Help Page on our website (currently http://www.svvs.org/help18.shtml) where the general public can get free assistance with identification of old cars from old photos. We sometimes need help from others, especially on American cars. This one has been about for a while so your help would be much appreciated. The enquirer suggests the photo was taken in about 1916 in Cambridge, Minnesota. Any help would be much appreciated.

Kind regards,

Vintman (UK)

www.svvs.org

How about this one Pilot 1913.

Leif in Sweden.

The License plate appears to be Illinois 1913.

If it's a Pilot, it doesn't appear to be the Model 50 that you see in the catalog picture. It may be the Model 60, though.

Totally different body from the dash board back and you will notice the crank is missing on the advertisement.

Sure looks like a Cartercar.

Steering is on opposite side from the car in the ad, also.

keiser 31. Seems that you have pic. from 2 different cars.can you explain.

Leif in Sweden.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: keiser31</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Totally different body from the dash board back and you will notice the crank is missing on the advertisement. </div></div>

That's why I suggested possibly the Pilot Model 60, as it has that body.

The illustration in the "ad" could have easily been transposed during the production of the catalog, so I'm not sure I'd balk because of the steering wheel on the right side vs. left.

I see a lot of differences between the car in the vintage photo and the Cartercar. I'm still agreeing that it's a Pilot, but the large series.

The photos I took are two different Cartercars and I posted both to show the similarities of the radiator shell/hand crank areas.

Actually the body in the ad is much more angular than the unidentified car.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: keiser31</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually the body in the ad is much more angular than the unidentified car. </div></div>

Yes, I know. That "ad" car is a Model 50. The Model 60 car has the same body as the unidentified car.

There are differences here, also. I was mainly wanting to point out that the two series had way different bodies, and that the 60 was more similar to the unidentified car than the 50 that was posted.

Interesting that the unidentified car has ten spokes on the front wheels and twelve spokes on the rears.

The Carter car has the same, 10 in front and 12 in the rear. The difference I saw in the Cartercar, though, were the front fenders.

Hi folks,

My thanks to Lief Holmberg, Drwatson, West Peterson and Keiser31 for the lively debate and for all the fascinating info. Fantastic just how much detail is out there on the lesser known makes. Having now studied the protagonists in detail, I am with Keiser31 on it seeming to be the Cartercar rather than the Pilot. I have found a photo of the Pilot 60 and front-on details appear wrong. No dimple over the starting handle, the starting handle is a spindly single piece unit out in the open air, and the cross bar is below the lights rather than central to them. Cartercars appear to have a detachable handle with the boss showing, as per my photo. The bonnet on the Pilot is generally a continuous curve but Cartercar has a pronounced ‘flatish’ section on the top, hence the radiator has a slight kink rather than being rounded. The honeycomb area on the Cartercar is taller. The Pilot mudguards are basically single flat type, whereas the Cartercar has a largish rebate along the side, and a front peak. The clincher for me is the rivets on the hub of the front wheel. The Pilot appears to have only about six. The Cartercar has about 11 or 12, as per my photo. The body is a bit of a problem, but here in the UK we would normally assume that the body would be provided by an external coachbuilder supplying to a number of manufacturers, and at a fashion of the day. There would therefore be much similarity in bodies and body styles. I have traced a photo of a 1913 Cartercar Saloon which has the same upper door body panels as on my photo, and as on the Pilot 60, and has the same bulkhead sidelamps. The bulkhead was flat. By 1914 the bulkhead seemed to be curved with remote sidelights. I am therefore tempted to pronounce this a cca 1913 Cartercar unless somebody strongly disagrees, please !

I note the comments about steering wheel position. It is my impression that many American cars were right hand drive until Ford seemingly changed it in about 1912.

Regards Vintman (UK)

www.svvs.org

1913 Haynes 50Hp Model 23 Touring

Batting 1000 Varun, you have my vote! Wonder if original poster is still watching?

Hi Folks,

Just to confirm, SOME 16 YEARS LATER,  still alive and well, still running the Surrey Vintage Vehicle Society website, getting towards 2000 car identifications, still keeping an eye on this forum. and thanking Varun for a large chunk this period in direct and indirect help with investigations.  Our website is http://svvs.org  and our current Help Page is http://www.svvs.org/help196.shtml. 

Regards to all

Bozi Mohacek (aka Vintman)

www.svvs.org

(UK)