help! tranny question

As I pulled to a stop this a.m., my 88 with 147k kept chugging forward and stalled. It did it last fall a bit, but I put in some seafoam and it quit. Anyone out there? any suggestions welcome ----- except for a new tranny. Could the modulator be sticking? I just don't understand transmissions enough to know where to begin.

An additional thought, sometimes when I start the vehicle it surges forward against the park-stop.

The lockup portion of the torque converter is sticking and not unlocking. Fluid pressure, to the clutch inside the torque converter, is applied by an electric solenoid inside the transmission when it receives a signal from the ECU. The solenoid mechanically sticking is probably the problem. I doubt it is an electrical problem. I would try sea foam again. Be careful. It can be dangerous if it stays locked and continues to pull the car when coming to a stop at a red light. I had a Pontiac Fiero that did the same thing.

If you have a 440T4 transmission, and your engine stalls when you come to a stop, make sure you check the lockup torque converter clutch solenoid, they often stick when hot.

sorry - didn't see you there Ronnie

No problem. Great minds think alike.

No-minds appreciate great minds. The TCC seems to fit the description the best. Apparently getting to the solenoid requires Tranny removal? Thanks guys. What happens if it sticks in lockup position? Am I done on the spot?

Just came across the same info on a Cadillac page for the same transmission. They say to check it, they don't say how to check it.

If it stays locked and stalls at a light or stop sign you can start the car in neutral and pull the shifter into drive. If you are lucky it will start the car moving without stalling again. It will jerk the car really hard but it will get you out of bind until you can get home.

What was recommended to me by a friend who works on transmissions at the local Chevy, Cadillac and GMC dealer is the following: (He said it was also good for cars that shudder when the torque converter locks.)

Remove a little over two quarts of transmission fluid. I used a had suction pump to draw the fluid out through the dipstick tube. You could also remove a transmission cooler line from the radiator.

After the fluid is removed add two quarts of Klotz (#KL-930) - Racing TechniPlate 10W/30 oil. It is a red oil that looks just like transmission fluid.

After about a week the sticking torque converter problem went away and never returned. I now put two quarts of of the Klotz in all my vehicles. I believe the car shifts smoother with the Klotz and I have never had another sticking problem.

It costs about $11.00 a quart. I hasn't hurt my vehicles after 5 years. Let me know the results if you try it.

Interesting....this Klotz is engine oil I take it?

Yes, it is a fully synthetic motor oil that will blend with petroleum oils and synthetic lubricants.

I do not believe I have ever seen it at the usual parts stores.....

Where might it be found please sir ????

Klotz is a specialty oil company like Amzoil and Redline. Usually they are just popular with the racing crowd. Klotz is very popular with boat and go cart racers.

I buy it locally from an auto parts store. The owner is a world record holder boat racer. Their website is here. It is not a very high tech web site so you might want to call in your order. Be sure to ask for KL-930 if you order. They also use it in their automatic transmissions.

I don't know if the large chain stores will have it or not. An Internet search turns up lot of stores who sell it. There should be a store near you.

A couple of links to some additional information you might be interested in re:sticking TCC solenoids.

http://www.kichline.com/chuck/fiero/TCC.htm

http://www.a-body.net/forums/showthread.php?t=58

To mind is a terrible waste (somethin like that)LOL

Thanks for the info guys, I will try the fluid Ronnie recommended first. From what I can glean, it sounds like I have the 4T40 and the recommendation is to leave it for a professional. Anyone ever do this on a 4T40? I can't tell from the FSM if I can do it without pullint the tranny. I plan on front struts soon, so maybe if it only involves pulling the axle, I can do it?

According to the FSM it could be done without pulling the transmission. But... they are referring to doing it in a garage like a dealership would have. After reading all the things that must be done, disconnecting the steering rack, removing axles and dropping the cradle in the rear, I would leave it up to a transmission shop that has the experience and proper tools to do the job.

Ronnie, I just finished reading the same. Because I have to replace the struts and frame insulators, I will be half way there, I think I will try it. I don't like the idea of the possibility of it staying stuck and stranding me somewhere. The cost of a shop pre-empt me from going that route, my $800 car is starting to nickel-and-dime me to death. I bought it with the idea that it would give me reliable transportation for a while and I would still be able to sell it in a year or two and maybe even make some money. I live in NW Minnesota and getting stranded in the wrong place here, could mean your life in the winter. I always greet people here in the winter with,"Only a fool would live here." Now I should include,"Only a fool would think he could make money on a Reatta." I will post when I am done.

You can't go wrong with the Klotz. $20 worth of Klotz could save you a lot of work... Try it if it doesn't work you will be draining it out anyway when you replace the solenoid.

Either way be sure to post your results here.

Good luck!!

I'll have to see if I can find some here in Winnipeg where I am today. KL930 10-30

Don't forget to remove 2 quarts of old fluid before you add 2 quarts of the Klotz (#KL-930) - Racing TechniPlate 10W/30 oil.

I think Klotz can be found at a motorsports shop, the kind that sells quads and dirtbikes

Isn't "Tranny" in violation of the new forum rules?

Only if used in conjunction with "Granny".

( SORRY, COULDN'T HELP MYSELF. )

Another site with info which may be of use re:TCC lockup

http://www.technicalevolution.com/gm125.htm

Had not thought of the addition of Sea Foam to a tranny before. How much to add and how long should one leave it in before a flush, or is it OK just to keep running on it? My car does a little juddering at the lockup point. I'm thinking possibly the Sea Foam, doing a filter change, and adding the Klotz oil. Figure it can't hurt. Just got this car recently and am doing the general shake down anyway. Any other opinions? Thanks.

jk

88 Blue on Blue

Hijack time. Did you check the plug wires? I have seen weak plug wires cause shuddering at cruising speed.

Have not done the plugs and wires yet. They are on the list. Could be the problem though, since it seems intermittant. Thanks.

jk

Good call VV. Happened to me last year.

One other thing you might try is knuckle knock on the mass airflow sensor while the car is running. If it sputters, coughs, and gags when you rap on it that might tell you it's time to replace.

Although the symptoms can be similar they tend to be much more pronounced then what you describe when MAS is going out. Just thought I'd mention it.

When I knuckle rapped my mass airflow sensor, It sputtered and died. A new one solved my problem.

"Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in a while"

LOL

Talked to Klotz themselves and they have replaced the KL930 with the Estorlin line of products now. The new part number is KE 930. Anyone know if there is any reason this cannot be interchanged in the transmission application?

jk

Thanks to all who made suggestions. Did the plugs and wires the other day. Also ran on the sea foam for a couple days and then did a trans fluid/filter change that was also on the shakedown list and added 2 quarts of Klotz oil. The car is no longer throwing any transmission codes and is shifting a whole lot better. Here's something else though. I drive a lot in PA and they just went to the 10% ethanol gas and my milage just took a huge dive--from around 26 to 21 mpg. Are there any adjustments to try to counteract this or am I just missing something...

jk

88 blue on blue

The only adjustment is to move to a place where they still have real gas. I have a goldwing and it is hard to find sometimes when I travel. Despite the mileage drops, it is cheaper than in Canada. The other day I paid over $6 per gallon for true gas with no ethanol!!!! It looks like the USA will be there soon.