1928 series "72" Chrysler Royal sedan

I am presently in the process of restoring a 1928 series "72" Chrysler. This is proving to be a challenging project. The body is a composite (wood and steel) unit manufactured by Fisher; requiring the replacement of a good percentage of the wooden frame. I started this project some 35 years ago. For a period of the last 25 years the car was in storage; however, when I acquired my present shop I proceeded to restart my efforts to resurrect this survivor. My intention is to restore it to as close to it was when it rolled off the assembly lines at Chrysler in 1927 or 1928 (note production of the series "72 started in mid '27). I hope to keep this forum posted as to my progress and solicit aid and advice from those participating. When I master the ability to post pictures via this new fangled contrivance of which I am presently utilizing, I will hopefully post some of these for your review. In the mean time I would appreciate the attention and help of those members who have a knowledge of restoration practices and techniques relating to composite bodies of the 1920's.

Hi, I am in the same process as you of restoring a 72 roadster. I have a almost complete running car that was uted. I have been searching for a roadster rear for some three years now and after visiting a swap meet on saturday I may have found one. I get to have a look at it on Tuesday. I am new to the restoring vintage cars but I can tell you that mechanicly wise there are many interchangable parts from 72s with 75s. I have given up on trying to make my car totaly original due to lack of parts here in Australia. I am glad to help you in any way possible. leigh.raaen@optusnet.com.au Leigh

Pacer...great to hear another one of these cars has survived. Did you know two of the series "72"'s placed 3rd & 4th at Le Mans in 1928? For your info Chrysler corp. has original factory photos of the two body styles available in the "72" roadster. The historical data collection has these and a copy of the owners manual. Try to keep it original if you can; the roadsters are really sporty.

thanks for that. How would I get to see the factory photos you have mentioned? Leigh

This is my series "72" Royal sedan.

Nice car, your ahead in restoration, I'm still looking for the roadster rear panels. I have a lead and am checking it out tomorrow. I'ts a 70 model I think but I can make it work.

Leigh

Progress report....Since my last report I have successfully hung the left rear door, nailed on the sheet metal covers above each door and finished the tops of the doors. These tasks may sound simple or easy to do; however,they have taken some thought and automotive archaeology to achieve. The left rear door was not fitting it's openning properly. I have been wrestling with this for some while. It required shiming the three door hinges. Due to the fact that measurement of the gap required to be filled was impossible to measure because it was only evident once the door was shut and in it's place with the hinges tightly trapped inside the hinge jam; I was forced to resort to a many trial fits using various thickness's of shims. Finally, when I determined what thickness was needed for each hinge the wood screw holes were worn out. I used a wood putty recommended by a local wood working supply store to restore these holes. Now the door fits. This process took some three weeks. The upper door frame sheetmetal pieces were another story. Fisher had equiped the car with a door stop mechanism that consisted of an arm and slide assembly with a pivot stud mounted in the upper horizontal body frame timber. I had to locate and drill these holes for the studs. Once the stud hole were bored I could nail these sheetmetal pieces in place , then install the pivot studs . Again many more hours of work. Finishing the tops of the doors took some patching with small amounts of wood putty and sanding. I hope to post some pictures relating to this work soon.

Hi Harry,

I enjoyed our conversation the other night. Again thank you for the input. You mentioned posting some pictures of your recent work. I can't wait to see them!!

When you say "They have taken some thought and "automotive archaeology" to achieve" Does that mean that you have found literature pertaining to how to align these bodies? Would love copies of anything you might have!!

Thanks

Dan

1929Chrysler....There is a service manual for early Fisher bodied cars. "Fisher Body Service Manual 1926-1931 closed body models" . I have a copy of a recent reprint I bought 3 or 4 years ago; although I can't remember were I purchased it. As far as I can remember it was a collector car literature company. Maybe someone reading this reply will know. As soon as I can figure out how to move my pictures from one place in this darn computer to this forum I will post them. Does your Chrysler have a Fisher body? I believe it was in 1928 that GM purchased the last of Fisher and soon after stopped building bodies for other firms.

Here is the promised picture. This picture shows the body without the rear door. The arrows point to areas I have paid attention to in the last month or so. These are not the only areas or topics of the restoration I have paid attention to during this period. Some period of time was spent on what I call automotive archaeology; which is studying the original parts car(see background first pic) and the one I am restoring ( identical cars down to paint color & upholstery except car being restored has the optional "red head").

These pictures demonstrate the restoration work I have done on the top of the doors and the upper door jams. Note the green overspray from it's first paint job at the factory (automotive archaeology).

Here is the door in it's final position.

While working on the doors I had two of the original tags replicated. The Hassler tag goes on the snubbers and the Chrysler tag goes on the firewall. You will note the snubbers to either side of the radiator in the first picture. I am still working on having two other sets of parts reproduced; the runningboards and the door handles. The door handles, window cranks, and escutheons are proving to be a challenge as they were originally die-cast of a poor grade of pot metal (zinc)and have deteriorated. I am looking into rapid prototyping techniques available coupled with CAD programs that are available to help me in this quest. The runningboards are another story as they were originally roll formed. Quick question....How many other makes ran Hassler snubbers?

This is a photo of the car as it is today with the visor trial fitted.

Harry, you do get there the long way, love the pictures and detailed info, Johan

Johan....Thanx for the review...Yes, this is the long way:however, I am trying to restore the car as accurately as possible plus preserve the original details and workmanship as much as possible. The workmanship was that of the assembly lines in the most modern factories of their day. As far as I can estimate 25,000 royal sedan bodies left the Fisher factory in a nine month period, that would be about 93 bodies a day. Plus Fisher was producing the vast majority of General Motor's bodies that year.

My plan......straighten and attend to the body at this time; then set the primed body to the side and restore the frame and running gear. I can't do the sheet metal work; so I am applying myself to the woodwork and other details pertaining to the body. There is more body work to be done and soon I will ship the car to the body man. I hope to set the body aside sometime in early summer and start on the mechanicals. This process should go somewhat faster as I am far more a mechanic than a body man. When the chassis is finished I will remount the body, paint it and then upholster.

Here are some pics of the parts car. Note, the parts car is in better shape than the car I am restoring when I started.

Progress report....In the last couple of days I have ignored business and life some to apply myself to the restorarion. During this period I have done several jobs. These include removing the running board splash shields from the parts car,doing some small detail work on the restoration, and sorting through parts piles selecting and studying parts and assemblies. Hopefully this coming week I will be able to take a small load of body parts to a stripper and then take them to my body man; this will include the splash aprons off the parts car. By the way, I need some slabs of cork to fill in some holes in the wood as they were originally; if some one knows where I can obtain some pieces of solid cork 2" x 2" let me know.

Try Restoration Supply. Here's their website:

http://www.restorationstuff.com/

This is their online catalog:

http://www.restorationstuff.com/RSC%20Cat%2025lr.pdf

If they don't have it listed, give them a call and they may be able to help.

1940_Buick......Thanx!!!!..Yup, it's in their on line catalogue.

I ordered the cork from Restoration Supply Co.....Now, I have another part I am searching for. This is the door lock spring. At one time it was a common replacement part supplied by the Au-ve-co Company; not any more. It was door lock spring #759.

Hi Harry,

The body on my '29 Chrysler was produced by the Hayes Body Corporation from Grand Rapids Mich. I was not lucky enough to find a repair manual For Hayes but did find the Fisher Body manual you were refering to so I bought one hoping that will help me understand better how these bodies were made.

Thanks for posting the pictures. It looks like you've come a long way. Where did you find the repro. for the fire wall plate and how much was it??

Thanks

Dan

Harry,

I notice you mention "snubbers".. Are these basically shock absorbers? If so, how do they work internally as opposed to the hydraulic style I am used to?

Dan

1929Chrysler...Good to hear from you again...It is very interesting to hear the body was built by Hayes. I thought Fisher/GM cut off outside manufacturers about this time. How did you figure out it was a Hayes body? I would really like to see a Hayes body next to a Fisher to study the differences. As to the fire wall plate I had several made and if you are interested I would be glad to sell you one. Does your body have an identical plate? You will notice one of my repro plates trial fitted on the pic of the car labeled trial visor fit.

Snubbers or stabilizers are shock absorbers that work only on the downward movement of the axle. They all (as far as I know) consist of a large clock spring that resists the downward motion of the axle. The Hasslers on my Chrysler also have a friction plate to act in conjunction with the clock spring. This would be a good time for someone more knowledgeable than myself to chime in. Any takers?

This a picture of the backside of an inner door assembly showing a door lock spring in place.

Harry,

The way that I know it is a Hayes body is because there is an ID plate on the floor as soon as you open up the driver's door. It reads "Hayes Body Corp. Grand Rapids Mich.

#99-7432"

I am very interested in the repro plate. It is identical to mine! Please let me know.

I'll work on trying to figure out how to down load these pictures to show you the body.

Dan

1929Chrysler....I'll be glad to sell you one $20.00 including shipping and handling, give me a call.

Harry,

Those types of springs you are looking for are always being sold on E-bay. There is one seller who claims to have thousands of different styles.

Go to E-bay Motors and punch in item #140215993814. Those are obviously not your springs but you can hit the "Ask the Seller" button and you can tell him what you need and maybe he might be able to help you.

Dan

1929Chrysler....It's not the number you gave me .....but...sure nuf.. the the springs I am looking for are for sale on E-Bay. Thanx!

I have just finished a 20 year restoration of a Windsor Ontario built Model 72 coupe R/S. It is a close to original as I can possibly get it. I can not find an oilfilter. Many pieces had to be manufactured (i.e bolts, steering wheel light and gas control levers. The wood frame was in excellent shape but I did obtain a Fisher Body Service Manual. It is interesting that the manual for Chevolet bodies and Chrysler bodies appear to have been basically identical. I wish you every success with your project.

Restoration specialities in Winber, PA has a BLUE MILLION of those springs, and they are cheap. That's the good news. The bad news is you can't call them up and say "1929 Chrysler four-door" and they know what to send. Here's what you do: take your old spring off of the latch assy, clean it up, put it in a photocopy machine and push "copy", this will produce a faxable picture of the spring that is good enough to use. measue the dimensions at the end section and write that on the copy/picture of the spring and fax it to restoration specialties. They recomended this procedure to me and they got me the springs I needed fast, at a good price.

John...Jack.... thanks for the response! Jack, I would really like to see some photos of your Royal Sedan. If you could post some that would be great. I would also like to talk to you and learn some about your restoration. As to the oil filter supplied with the series "72", two types were fitted during the production run. Those were Purolator types SG-2 and SA-2. The SG types required a die cast manifold and the SA types had the oil line run in the top and exit the bottom. I have been lucky enough over the years to acquire a NOS example of both. If you go to Hershey and are persistant enough I am sure you can find one of these filters. John, I bought and have received the door handle springs I was looking for, although I have made a note of the source you recomended. To update those of you that are following my progress in this task; I have received the springs and cork that I was looking for. I have also had the hood shelves and an extra set of rear fenders stripped and readied them for my body man. I have to wait, as my body man is in the process of moving to a new location to have these parts straightened and primed. At present I am applying myself to the last bit of woodwork I need to do, which is reproducing some of the floor boards. I have contacted my engine guy and given him the heads up that I plan to get with him soon to start the engine rebuild. When my body guy gets settled in his new shop I hope to get the splash aprons and front fenders to him for his professional touch. The next parts I will need in my process are the interior and exterior handles and the carburetor. The carburetor may be impossible except at enormous expense as it was a die cast unit and was prone to zinc disease. The unit was a Pemberthy Ball & Ball SV-37. This was one of the first dual throated carbs ever built. I have several examples of the unit including a NOS example; however all are bad. Did any other cars run this unit?

John...Jack.... thanks for the response! Jack, I would really like to see some photos of your Royal Sedan. If you could post some that would be great. I would also like to talk to you and learn some about your restoration. As to the oil filter supplied with the series "72", two types were fitted during the production run. Those were Purolator types SG-2 and SA-2. The SG types required a die cast manifold and the SA types had the oil line run in the top and exit the bottom. I have been lucky enough over the years to acquire a NOS example of both. If you go to Hershey and are persistant enough I am sure you can find one of these filters. John, I bought and have received the door handle springs I was looking for, although I have made a note of the source you recomended. To update those of you that are following my progress in this task; I have received the springs and cork that I was looking for. I have also had the hood shelves and an extra set of rear fenders stripped and readied them for my body man. I have to wait, as my body man is in the process of moving to a new location to have these parts straightened and primed. At present I am applying myself to the last bit of woodwork I need to do, which is reproducing some of the floor boards. I have contacted my engine guy and given him the heads up that I plan to get with him soon to start the engine rebuild. When my body guy gets settled in his new shop I hope to get the splash aprons and front fenders to him for his professional touch. The next parts I will need in my process are the interior and exterior handles and the carburetor. The carburetor may be impossible except at enormous expense as it was a die cast unit and was prone to zinc disease. The unit was a Pemberthy Ball & Ball SV-37. This was one of the first dual throated carbs ever built. I have several examples of the unit including a NOS example; however all are bad. Did any other cars run this unit?

Harry,

When I had my engine overhauled it had the original pistons and rings in it. A few of the rings were broken and were not any thing that could be replaced so I had to go with a new set of pistons. Problem was that Egge was selling a complete set for $900!! Did some research and found out that the '33-'41 Plymouth used the exact size piston. Found an NOS set at.10 over for $10!! We had to slightly modify the conecting rods but it worked out great and the Plymouth pistons had 4 rings as opposed to the Chrysler which only had 3 so over all it was a better piston any how. It pays to do your homework!!

Are you looking to put the extra $$ in trying to get an original carb. for the car or a replacement? I had the same problem with the pot metal on my original Stromberg U2. I ended up going with a replacement Carter BB-1. If you are looking for what kind of replacement, There is a gentlemen who responds to these posts by the user name "CarbKing". He is extremely knowledgeable and helpful when it comes to these questions

Dan

Harry,

When I had my engine overhauled it had the original pistons and rings in it. A few of the rings were broken and were not any thing that could be replaced so I had to go with a new set of pistons. Problem was that Egge was selling a complete set for $900!! Did some research and found out that the '33-'41 Plymouth used the exact size piston. Found an NOS set at.10 over for $10!! We had to slightly modify the conecting rods but it worked out great and the Plymouth pistons had 4 rings as opposed to the Chrysler which only had 3 so over all it was a better piston any how. It pays to do your homework!!

Are you looking to put the extra $$ in trying to get an original carb. for the car or a replacement? I had the same problem with the pot metal on my original Stromberg U2. I ended up going with a replacement Carter BB-1. If you are looking for what kind of replacement, There is a gentlemen who responds to these posts by the user name "CarbKing". He is extremely knowledgeable and helpful when it comes to these questions

Dan

1929Chrysler...Thanx for the tip....When me and my engine guy rebuild an engine, he orders the pistons from J&E out on the west coast. We do this because these are forged aluminum and precision machined. Cast type pistons are prone to failure due to defects in the casting process.These custom units cost about the same as todays cast units. My car was origanally fitted with dyked rings which are not available today and I would not use this type of ring even if I could acquire them. I don't know if they used dyked rings in 1929. My objective in engine rebuilds is reliability and cost is not a primary consideration. By the way....are you still interested in the firewall plate or did you find another source? I am selling these at cost as I had to order 50 copies to get one. Yes, if I can't reproduce the Pemberthy Ball & Ball SV-37 I will use a CarterBB-1; which was a universal after market replacement updraft unit.

1929Chrysler...Thanx for the tip....When me and my engine guy rebuild an engine, he orders the pistons from J&E out on the west coast. We do this because these are forged aluminum and precision machined. Cast type pistons are prone to failure due to defects in the casting process.These custom units cost about the same as todays cast units. My car was origanally fitted with dyked rings which are not available today and I would not use this type of ring even if I could acquire them. I don't know if they used dyked rings in 1929. My objective in engine rebuilds is reliability and cost is not a primary consideration. By the way....are you still interested in the firewall plate or did you find another source? I am selling these at cost as I had to order 50 copies to get one. Yes, if I can't reproduce the Pemberthy Ball & Ball SV-37 I will use a CarterBB-1; which was a universal after market replacement updraft unit.

Here are some pictures of the challenges/projects I am now working on. The top picture is the Pemberthy Ball & Ball SV-37. The unit you are looking at is a NOS carb; however, you will note upon close examination the ravages of zinc disease. I really would like to reproduce one of these carbs. If I am lucky I can develope a rapid prototyping technique that will allow me to facilitate this goal. Below that are NOS examples of the two oil filters that were fitted to the car when new. On the right is a SG-2 and on the left is a SA-2. The last shot is one of some of the handles and escutcheons that I need to reproduce or locate reproductions. These die cast parts were common to Fisher/GM cars of the late twenties.