Are 4 dr.sedans worth restoring?

I guess the bigger question is what is worth restoring? More to the point, why do we restore cars? Is it the "sporty" version of what might have been or the view of what <span style="font-weight: bold"> </span> was <span style="font-weight: bold"> </span> ? For me, the historian, I can only answer "what was"! The plain fact is that the world did(does) not exist in the sporty realm. Practicality reared its head and made 4 dr. sedans and 2 dr. sedans the best sellers because they served the populace best. Most of our memories are of these cars. No amount of rationalization can change a 4 dr sedan into a convertible and to attempt to do so is, at best, insincere.

I know that it does not take any more money to restore a 4 dr as compare to a coupe and the rewards(?) are certainly greater for the coupe ,<span style="font-weight: bold"> </span> <span style="font-style: italic"> </span> <span style="text-decoration: underline"> </span> but <span style="font-weight: bold"> </span> <span style="font-style: italic"> </span> <span style="text-decoration: underline"> </span> that does not make the coupe more representative of what the average person dealt with. To me, that is the only thing that matters.

So, are any 4 dr sedans woth restoring? Absolutely! Otherwise, the younger generations may think that 4 drs were an rarity.

Ed

If a 1959 Cadillac did not have its huge fins, would it receive all the hype it does? No, of course not. It is because it has those huge fins that were in excess of the norm that it gets all the attention. So just because four doors have always been what sold more does not mean that they represent the era better. In fact, two doors represent the era better because you could actually get them back then. The 2007 Monte Carlo was the last car considered a full size 2 door. Actually I thought of it as more midsize, but since they wanted the Impala to be full size, and the Monte is on the same platform, it was full size. It has been discontinued for 2008. So now there is nothing you can get in a full size 2 door, except maybe a Bentley, and who can afford those? When I buy antiques, I buy them becuase it is something from another era that you just can't get anymore. A Packard, a Hudson, or a pink aluminum Christmas tree (yes, I have a pink aluminum tree), and 2 doors are things you can't get anymore. Sure the 4 door Chevy or Ford was much more common. But I find it much more interesting to see the more unusual stuff, whether car or stuff for the house. Everyone remembers my pink tree. Some people love it, some tell me right to my face that it is hideous. You know what, the people that tell me that they don't like it usually just say it is because it is not the usual red and green. Well I think how pathetic that you have been brainwashed to think red and green is the only acceptable way to have Christmas decorations. You can get that anywhere. Try finding a pink aluminum tree. Would anyone remember my tree if it was the same green artificial tree that 99% of people have? No, they would not. So, in the same regard, I will always only buy a 2 door. Not to mention the fact that I just think a 2 door hardtop just looks much cleaner and sleeker than a pillared 4 door. For those that want 4 doors because of a family or because the 4 door is much more affordable, great. But for me with zero to one passenger, and not much price difference between 2 and 4 doors in the cars I am looking to purchase. There is no way I am going to get a 4 door.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">just because four doors have always been what sold more does not mean that they represent the era better. In fact, two doors represent the era better because you could actually get them back then.</div></div>

<span style="color: #3333FF">Why does it not represent the era? Back then, families were bigger. it was not uncommon for couples to have 5 or 6 kids, compared to 2 or 3 today. Families stayed together more then too, compared to today`s "single parent" families. Families DID THINGS together then, like movies, shopping, vacations, etc. compared to everybody going in their own direction today.

I think there was a REASON 4 doors and wagons sold so good back then.

Today, they are not needed as much as they were back then.</span>

My girlfriend made a comment to me after going to a couple of show. She couldn't understand whay at these shows she couldn't find a '55 Chevrolet like her grandmother's black one. She went nuts when we stumbled upon a '56 that was close, at least it had 4dr. Her comment to me was that "looking at the shows, you'd never know they even made a '55 Chevrolet in a 4dr".

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: old gto</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">just because four doors have always been what sold more does not mean that they represent the era better. In fact, two doors represent the era better because you could actually get them back then.</div></div>

<span style="color: #3333FF">Why does it not represent the era? Back then, families were bigger. it was not uncommon for couples to have 5 or 6 kids, compared to 2 or 3 today. Families stayed together more then too, compared to today`s "single parent" families. Families DID THINGS together then, like movies, shopping, vacations, etc. compared to everybody going in their own direction today.

I think there was a REASON 4 doors and wagons sold so good back then.

Today, they are not needed as much as they were back then.</span> </div></div>

It does not represent the era because back then, you could get almost every model from every manufacturer in a 2 door, 4 door, station wagon, and convertible. There are exceptions of course like no wagons from Cadillac, Lincoln, and Imperial. But today I cannot think of a single American model that comes in all 4 body styles. If 4 doors were needed more back then than they are today, then how come all you can get now is a 4 door? Back then there was much easier access to the rear seat in a 2 door, and people with one or 2 kids had no problem with a 2 door. My parents never owned a 4 door while I was growing up. Now even if you are single with no passengers, you are supposed to have a 4 door.

Also, it depends on what kind of show you take your girlfriend to. If it is the local rod and custom show, I'm sure there won't be many 4 doors. If you take her to a Chevy club meet, I bet there will be lots of them.

When you think about it, I think there are more 4-door cars built today than there are 2-doors. Between SUV's and mini vans, most of the regular cars are 4-doors. Unless it's a sports car, how many 2-doors are built new today??

I went new car shopping with my mom in 2006. She will not buy a 4 door. That ruled out Cadillac, Buick, Lincoln, Mercury, Dodge, and Chrysler. She did not want a small 2 door. That ruled out Ford amd Pontiac. She bought a Chevy Monte Carlo. Now that is dicontinued. Years ago, all of these divisions had multiple models with 2 doors. For 2008 I think the only 2 doors available are the Ford Mustang, Pontiac G6 and G5, and Chevy Cobalt.

A couple of years ago I had a very interesting conversation with Danny Howell (Late Great Chevys) when he was visiting Scotland and he believed that the 4-door Tri-Fives would eventually become worth far more than they did then. His reasoning was that because 4-doors we so inexpensive and not as collectable as the top line models they were continually being used as donor cars, which in turn means that a plain-jane 4-door 150 sedan would ultimately become rarer and rarer, which in turn would make it more and more valuable.

I suppose if you think about it most of the desirable models are either the Convertible or the 2-door Hardtop (I'm not including Nomads, etc for simplicity). Think about just how many hundreds of these you've seen at various shows, and then think back to when you last saw a lowly 150 4-door Sedan at a show - food for thought perhaps?

Argyll.

Linc400 I like my Eldorado because 2 door doors are w-i-d-e allowing easy ingress/egress. If you are a big man like me this makes a difference. If you're a small person 4 doors are fine for you. Yes, we are awash in 4 doors today.

The fact that about no one but Mercedes builds a 2 door HT is probably due to crash worthiness. But you'd think they could overcome that.

I agree that it makes more sense to actually spend less money and purchase a finished car in as good a shape as possible. In the long run it's worth it cause there's no way the average person could take these wrecks everyone think should be saved and rejuvenate them for less money.

For folks who like to do lots of heavy manual labor on cars that's a great opportunity ofr them. As most of us get older or have ongoing health problems there's no scooting around on the garage floor all afternoon and not paying for it the next day, if you do it at all any more. For those that can- go for it!

Argyll- this is exactly my original point- that Tri 5 4 door sedans will continue to rise pulled by the convertibles and HTs. And it goes for all the 4 door sedans really as they become worthy to refurbish at least into driver cars from stored parts cars.

If folks want to upgrade a car into a better driver or bring one back from a derelict 4 door sedans are now the only things available for competitive prices across the board.

Hi Twitch,

I'm pleased my comments have added to your point, but may I modify slightly what I'm attempting to get across as there's a bit more to Danny's observation.

What he was driving at is the vast numbers of Convertibles and 2-door hardtops still out there compared to the 150 4-door's. The part I hadn't posted for the sake of brevity was he went on to say many of the above mentioned models are now into their second or third restoration because nobody was (/ is) considering the lesser models. What he was implying was the lesser models must eventually become more collectable than the current "must-haves" because there'll be so few of them left.

Can you imagine a situation when a 150 is more valuable than a 2-door hardtop - the day is perhaps closer than we think!

Argyll.

I suppose if you think about it most of the desirable models are either the Convertible or the 2-door Hardtop (I'm not including Nomads, etc for simplicity). Think about just how many hundreds of these you've seen at various shows, and then think back to when you last saw a lowly 150 4-door Sedan at a show - food for thought perhaps?

Argyll.

I don't go to many local cruise nights because I get bored seeing 25 each of Mustang, Chevelle, Corvette, and 2 door '57 Chevy. So I go to shows where I am sure there will be more of a variety. I can tell you I have definitely seen more 4 door '55-'57 Chevys, than 2 door Hudsons, Imperials, and Kaisers. Those are almost always 4 doors.

There were approx 600 Imperial convertibles per year between 1957 and 1968. Approx. 7200 over twelve model years total. There were 47,562 Bel Air convertibles in 1957 alone. Yet the price of a Bel Air convert is 3-4 times that of an Imperial today.

There were 52,266 Chevy 150's and 166,426 Bel Air 2 door hardtops in 1957. So according to the reasoning that there are fewer left, The Imperial should be worth the most, then the 4 door Chevy, then 2 door Bel Air. It is basically the exact opposite, although extra nice Imperial converts may just come in a little over the 4 door Chevy. So no, I do not ever see the 4 door '57 Chevy being worth more than the 2 doors, no matter how few are left.

No doubt a lot of those 4 door sedans sacrificed their lives and parts for convertibles and HTs so ultimately there may not be as many restorable ones as we think are out there though they will never equal their pretty brothers' prices.

The cars that are the biggest tragedy are hearses, ambulances and limos. The hearses especially are regularly cannibalized for parts for far more common cars, and usually they have an extremely limited production run from whatever coachbuilder made them. I have no interest in owning a hearse, but some of the carved side, and over the top 1950's ones can be pretty cool. They get very little support from marque specific clubs, and are even banned from some shows because they are considered in poor taste.

Here's one he should look at:

1941 Cadillac 63 sedan

On another forum I visited a guy had a question about whether he should buy a 57 Bel Air 283CID 4 dr. sedan for $2000. Pictures show the car without surface rust and in fact primered where little dents and dings had been fixed. The chrome looks good enough that it might buff up good enough to use on a driver car. It is all there. No floor and trunk rust.

Whaddya think? Here is one of the pics

I said just look at NADA, Gold Book, Collector Car Market Review for a idea of how prices are. I know 2 people who each spent about 12K on restoring Bel Air 4 doors.

There was a wide range of opinions-

4 doors aren't worth anything except for parts

You can't restore a car for just 12K

There's no guarantee it'll be worth more in 5 years.

What do you guys think?

I have a 1957 4Dr BelAir... ZZ430 clone, Currie 9 inch 4:11 rear end, no A/C, TH350, Ansen Sprint mags... I have owned it for 20 years, and I love it. It was my daily driver for several years until a deer ran into it and I got smarter... sheesh. It honks! They are certainly worth finding, buying and hotrodding or whatever else you want to do. But don't do it because you want to make a profit, do it because you love it!

Welcome to the AACA Forum, Doctor. For a first-time poster, you hit the nail on the head.

I think that in the future there will be no more 4 door's in junk yards only the one's restored and preserved

then they will be higher in value

I have a 54 buick 4 door sedan and I am proud on it

There are many ways to measure "worth". Not all involve money.

"Pity the Philistine who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing". Oscar Wilde. Not sure he was a car guy but the thought is the same.

Restorations can go from $1000 to $1,000,000. There is no correct answer. It all depends on what the owner wants to achieve. I love my 4 door car!

Both of my cars are 4 door sedans

My first collector car was a 1920 Model T Coupe.

I didn't have it very long when it became obvious to me much of the FUN of HAVING an old car is being able to take some friends along now and then.

I loved driving the Coupe but, with the exception of my '65 Mustang Coupe, that's the last 2 door I will ever own.

I don't think my friends should be punished by forcing them to do callisthenics in order to go for a ride....... :eek:

There's a real answer to this. Some are and some not so much. If "worth" is the keystone that has to be defined and the number of definitions could ban one for excessive use of bandwidth. Many 4dr sedans were simply utilitarian motorized transportation. They were cheap and hauled lots of people and their stuff. They made great taxi cabs, fleet cars, cop cars, most of which were simply consumed and recycled, as they were probably designed to be from day 1. Of course the private sector consumed their share too. That idea and your own imagination applied, easy to understand and cover the "...not so much..." part. As the models climb higher up the food chain we can clearly find the "Some are...", but it can easily go out of context. It always struck me as funny in the 20s and 30s cars, especially those at the top of the food chain, that the lower priced open cars took over in the value race. Simple, canvas tops, leather which was usually sort of plain in design, and many considerably less when new yet they win the $$$$$$$ race in ads and auction results. We've all had it shoved down our collective that "When the top goes down..." as if that was always the end-all be-all of historic transportation. The luxurious use of rare exotic woods, the finest of wool and rare cloths, vanity items, foot hassocks, they weren't found in the open cars. Neither were intercoms and personal beverage cabinets. Most of those that have those things have 4drs and their tops are fixed. Some even padded with lovely types of leather or various other animal skins. Yet they usually never command their original price increase that was there in their day. Back in context, like the 57 sedan pictured, even in those days we can find the 4drs worth doing. Usually they carry some version of "DeVille" or perhaps "Continental", and they too were at the top of the food chain in their day.

For some odd reason most forums decry the effort and expense required to restore all but the most rare of cars. It's as if everyone who reads this is in the business of trading cars and are duty bound to realize a profit. It's not new news either. Back in the early 90s you couldn't pick up a collector car magazine that didn't have at least one reference to the stupidity of restoring a car. "Let them take the loss..." or "...take advantage of their mistake..." was pitched like some new sensation. Now all the Picker/Barn/Pawn/Storage TV shows have even more folks thinking they're probably owed some form of profit because they chose an artifact. I could get really 'R' rated in regards to how I really feel about it, but then, why? If you want to live the more door life, what the heII, get 2 or 3. They're junk, right? No, not at all. The market place abused em and gave em step child status. Adopt and embrace what really was crowding intersections at rush hour. Every mile you lose waiting to afford the market's calls, sorry Charlie. Your profit is going well below the zero line. Your profit is miles. More accurately, Smiles Per Gallon.

Next...

Your profit is miles. More accurately, Smiles Per Gallon.

Next...

exactly.

In 1961 my Dad took me to the Rochester, New York public market where the local AACA chapter was having a car show. The experts there said not to waste any money on a car that was not open. That was a real shock to an impressionable youth. Some of the desirable convertibles were $125 and more!

I had to go through High School and the Navy before I was 24 years old and bought my first "official" collector car insured by J. C. Taylor:

I never was a good listener.

And I still ain't.

Bernie

Restore a 4 door ?

Judge for yourself, 'cause I did mine.

Mike in Colorado

I don't know but I think that as of late, I've been seeing more four door cars at shows and cruise- ins, which is great. I like them all. I remember as a kid in the fifties and sixties, my dad always had 2 door cars and I thought 4 doors were cooler.

I don't look threw PROFIT glasses . I look threw enjoyment glasses therefore a 4 door , truck , car , big rigs ,and all the others . Enjoy them and (agree with past statements ) smiles per gallon . To keep the Vintage and Antique automobiles alive is the ultimate goal of all of us as enthuses .

This:

Is parked next to these in my showroom:

Which one do you think gets all the attention?

Hint: It's green and it's worth half of what the others are each worth...

I bought one in 1958 and drove it over 100,000 miles.

A few years ago I decided that I could not live without one.

Yes it was worth it!

This earlier thread makes some good points:

January 23rd, 2008 #14 BJM

Guest

[h=2]Re: Are 4 dr.sedans worth restoring?[/h]

I don't look threw PROFIT glasses . I look threw enjoyment glasses therefore a 4 door , truck , car , big rigs ,and all the others . Enjoy them and (agree with past statements ) smiles per gallon . To keep the Vintage and Antique automobiles alive is the ultimate goal of all of us as enthuses .

I agree, well stated.

Well, you have those 4 door grocery getters and then you have those 4 door's that say, forget the groceries, I'm a "getter"

Bernie

The reality for me is that I could purchase a driving running four door (good car) for half the cost of if not less then it would be to restore the same car. Without skining my knuckles! much less time and energy, but if you want to restore a car then do it becasue you want that car when your done, then the feeling is priceless when you are done! you just don't want to look back 3 years and $30,000 later saying if could do it again I would have done a XXXX. (fill in the blank) Paint, chrome and everything else is going to cost the same, the initial purchase price is the only thing that is less.

I've had one 4dr sedan, totally useless back seat area because I had a passenger back there exactly once in 4 years. Needed to carry a large box and couldn't fit it in the trunk or the back seat area, and this was a 91 Grand Marquis. Never again, if it has more than 2 doors then it better be 3 (hatchback) or 5 (hatchback or wagon). Currently have a 93 Caprice wagon and have used it to carry stuff from a storage unit to home that never would have fit into a sedan. I like the wagons for visibility as well, look back and see everywhere! That is also what I like about a convertible. For me, the 2dr hardtop wagon would be perfect, but the only ones I know of are the late 50's Mercury wagons and I have never had deep pockets or won the lottery!

I've had one 4dr sedan, totally useless back seat area because I had a passenger back there exactly once in 4 years. Needed to carry a large box and couldn't fit it in the trunk or the back seat area, and this was a 91 Grand Marquis. Never again, if it has more than 2 doors then it better be 3 (hatchback) or 5 (hatchback or wagon). Currently have a 93 Caprice wagon and have used it to carry stuff from a storage unit to home that never would have fit into a sedan. I like the wagons for visibility as well, look back and see everywhere! That is also what I like about a convertible. For me, the 2dr hardtop wagon would be perfect, but the only ones I know of are the late 50's Mercury wagons and I have never had deep pockets or won the lottery!

Guess you never had kids, or never took another couple out to dinner....The advantage of 4 doors. I like the one where the family all gets in the car and you are half way backed out the driveway when someone yells I forgot to go to the bathroom! ... much easier in a 4 dr. They might not look as good, but they are more practical.

Can also be done in a wagon and you get all that carrying capacity as well. That is why so many suburban families had wagons and now have SUVs. Growing up, my family had exactly one 4dr sedan, the rest were 2drs or wagons. 5 kids in the family means I know all too well about getting in and out of a 2dr to let someone else out of the backseat, still had to do that in the wagon to let a middle person out of the back seat since the middle person was always the smallest and the one who forgot to 'go'. Getting in and out of the backseat of a fullsize 60's to 70's 2dr is not really that difficult, opening the door far enough to get out of the front seat is the hard part now after parking spaces were made too narrow to open the door all the way if another car is next to you. I also usually have 2 cars, a two door or truck and a wagon or van. I've only had two 2door drivers at the same time once, a 91 Chrysler TC convertible and a 79 Cordoba T-top while trying to sell that leaky t-top car.

NO, 4dr sedans are not worth restoring unless they are prewar or luxury cars. Yes, any other 4dr sedan is worth KEEPING in good shape if it is already. That's my opinion for the OP and I'm stickin to it.

We toured for years in a 1958 Bel-air 4-door sedan. Later, our son and daughter became the "Youngest Driver" in this same car. Many other tours were driven in our 1934 Buick 50 Series 4-door Sedan. In my opinion, while we love touring in our open cars, the sedans were perfect for the cross-country drive with kids - and they are much quieter going down the road.

I think they are certainly worth restoring.

My wife and I just purchased a new Cadillac CTS. We were toying with the idea of the 2 door coupe. Looking at it now that the kids are grown, and nobody really sits in the back seat. Also looking at my life I knew this would be the last time I would even consider buying a coupe as a new car. While we were both looking at it and a moment of clarity came over us...... without speaking we were thinking the same thing what if ???? and when??? and how do we to get in out of the back seat. My wife said, you want it more then me so don't think I am going back there! So I gave it a try and I got back there ok, but to trying to get out...... thought they were going to have to call 911 to get me out of the back seat............ The new sedan coupes are not as easy as my 60 Chevy Sport Coupe roll down the windows and without the pillar post there is a lot of room to get out, not so much with the new cars......... We own the four door now.

If someone were to decide to restore a four door vintage car, they just need to be more selctive of the candidate they pick

Yes, a four door is quite worth it to restore if:

#1-You are not worried about how much money you will not make in profit.

#2-You desire a four door and want to keep it.

#3-You need the room to fit your family and friends in.