39 Packard 120 advice

Solid #3 39 120 sedan. Please look at the pics and give me your opinion as to value. Remember it's a solid #3 and I'm trying to figure out what to offer.

Thanks

Do you have any more pictures? Engine photos, dash, and underbody would be helpful.

My general guess would be somewhere in the 25k range, but that's just a wild guess.

Noooooooo. $25 would get you a Super 8 sedan in that condition (or better).

While this car looks very nice, if it's a #3, I'd say under $15.

$25K sounds high to me, add a few thousand and you could buy a 41-42 180 which is far more car than a 120. Also, I could be wrong but it looks like someone took some liberties with the upholstery pattern.

I was thinking somewhere like $10-12K. Also, your right the interior is not the original type material or pattern. Should that hurt the price also? It was done well though.

Yes. the incorrect interior will affect its value. It's odd, when most the cost of putting in an interior is in labor, why wouldn't one go out and buy the correct material?????

Now you have to wonder where else they cut corners. The running boards look correct, and that's not cheap.

Good luck with this Cooter. I would be interested in knowing specifics of the mechanics (what's been done) on this car.

Looking at a similar 40-120 here that a friend has had for a long time. New paint & mechanicals, what has been done is done right, but it is not a frame off (nose was removed, though) and it will need an interior. I was thinking 8 - 10 grand on that one. Advantages include knowing what he started with (little rust) and total confidence in his abilities, disadvantages include expensive interior and chrome work remaining.

I am not a Packard expert but have been pricing the 120s in particular also. I would think if you got the above car for around 12K or even a couple grand more you would be doing very well. Correct or not the interior looks really nice, woodgrain, chrome, tires, etc. all look good. Price this against a '39 Ford sedan - mid low teens seems fair enough to me.

Steve

Keep in mind that running boards (replacing the rubber) done correctly for that car will cost just under $1,000, if your boards are in good shape to begin with.

I agree with you, it's a lot of car for the money, and you can't restore them that nice for what they're worth when you're done (but then, not many cars are).

Good points, West. I did not take running boards into account on the car I am looking at - I am sure it will need them, though, along with perhaps other small things that add up. It is not yet fully road ready.

That said this is another example of the car ready to go being the best deal nearly always. Cooter, if that car could be bought in the 10-12K range and you decide to pass on it - please let me know

Interesting comments. As my first post suggested, I tend to think that prices for a well sorted, "real" #3 Packard 120 are higher than the 10-15k range many seem to be thinking. As best I can recall, I haven't seen an ad in hemmings (or elsewhere) for that kind of price range for that kind of car in at least 3 or 4 years. Of course, final sale prices will be lower than offering prices, but still -- I think 10-14k for a solid #3 is a great deal.

More broadly, in the last 3 years or so, I've tended to find 120 prices seem to be up and are getting much more close to senior car prices than they used to be. I suspect it's because parts are plentiful, and fewer and fewer people know the difference between the junior and senior models.

Of course, as pointed out above, much depends on the details; it's easy to buy a $15k car and then have to put in $15k for a few 'simple' repairs. That's why I tend to think well-sorted #3 is a bit higher than many are suggesting. I suppose $20k instead of $25k may be more accurate, but I think an honest 120 sedan that doesn't need costly work is actually pretty rare, and i think the market sees that.

That's my sense of the market, at least.

I would think low teens would be a great deal but probably not realistic. I would think low to mid twenties would be a more real price range. I do know someone locally who paid around 50K for a 36 sedan 120 that was very nicely done though the paint was a incorrect root beer metalic flake.

Good points also. Probably one of the nicest 1940 Packards I have ever seen was a 110 sedan at a show in September. Four door sedan, full ground up, nut and bolt restoration. In speaking with the owner, he did most of the work himself including paint, and choose the 110 because he bought it and a 120 together, and it happened to be the better car. Now, not sure what the book value is but no way is this a 10-12K car. Which begs the question of what is it worth? Usually book values tend to look at average cars because that is what usually trades hands. A truly outstanding car will often defy the book even though the value guides try to account for condition. Not sure I would go $50K for a 120 that is not even a correct color; but wouldn't this 110 be a fair buy at say 20K or so regardless of the book if the car appeals to you and you want a 2+ or 1- prewar Packard.

Also, next to this 110 was another 110, a coupe, probably more like a #3 to #3+ car, this one was for sale, I don't remember exact number but I know it was over $20K - may have been $25K. I remember thinking, wow, that is for a six. It appeared to be a decent but older restoration. I would say Cooter's prospect is a better buy than this one, though, hands down.

tbirdman, Steve, thanks for the comments.

I was "on the market" for a mid-30s Packard for about two years, and I found that the value guides for these cars seemed pretty far off the market. For awhile, I was looking for a #3 120 convertible coupe, which most value guides told me I could find for $30k. I spent a while looking, and I concluded that the market price was more like 50-60k for an honest #3. The 120 convertibles available for 30k were barn finds that needed total restorations. That was my experience, at least.

Yeah, this is not helping my argument to my wife that a 120 series Packard is a great inexpensive way to add a prewar Packard to our small collection.

I know today I could pick up a good #2 120 convertible coupe for 50-60K though they might bring more.

The price guides that are published are way off. However the ones on the NADA web site seem to be more up to date.

I get Car Collector Mag, and this month they listed the 100 most significant cars in history. They put the price of a Packard coupe roadster V12 1933-34 at $180K which for the current going price is more like $400K-500K.

I think a junior open car is a great way to add a 30s open Packard car to your collection vs an open senior Packard.

I just checked the NADA guide -- yeah, seems about right for the junior cars I was looking at. They have an "average" 35 120 convertible at 51k and a "high" at 87k. They have an average 35 120 sedan at 22k.

I think their prices for senior models may be a bit off, though; they have 60k for an "average" 35 Standard 8 Coupe Roadster at 160k for an "average" 35 12 Roadster. I think the former is too low and the latter is too high. (Although it's interesting if it's true that the value difference between an average 35 120 and a 35 Standard Eight is only 10k -- goes to what I was saying about the relative price convergence between junior and senior models)

I haven't studied the 35 pricing, but I think the 12 pricing is OK and the standard 8 would be around 100K while the Super 8 would be in the $120K range.

I'm not going to enter the debate as to what the market value is, simply because I don't think there is enough information as to what mechanical condition this car is in. I will add, like the runningboard cost noted, that the cost of restoration on any car is well in excess of the mid-teens and up figures being bantered about here, unless one can do nearly all the work by oneself, for free. Oh, and have several years of time to devote to the effort.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tbirdman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I get Car Collector Mag, and this month they listed the 100 most significant cars in history. They put the price of a Packard coupe roadster V12 1933-34 at $180K which for the current going price is more like $400K-500K.

</div></div>

By the way, Ken. My name was on that article, and I did contribute my opinions as to what should be on it, but I had nothing to do with putting those values in. Almost all were way off, like the Packard.

I wonder if the fender lights were added by the dealer as an update since the 39's didn't have them?

Does it have overdrive? Lots of unknowns about the mechanics but I'm guessing $15k+.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wonder if the fender lights were added by the dealer as an update since the 39's didn't have them?

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Yes, that is Curious? I went thru my pics of '39s, and most did not have fender lights, but Several did. (I think they look better Without the fender lights, they look like pimples or something, sticking up)

Here's a pic of one of them that did:

Here's another:

(but this one may have a custom body?)

the 1940 parking lights are a common retrofit to the earlier cars

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: West Peterson</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tbirdman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I get Car Collector Mag, and this month they listed the 100 most significant cars in history. They put the price of a Packard coupe roadster V12 1933-34 at $180K which for the current going price is more like $400K-500K.

</div></div>

By the way, Ken. My name was on that article, and I did contribute my opinions as to what should be on it, but I had nothing to do with putting those values in. Almost all were way off, like the Packard. </div></div>

I did enjoy the article, and I'm sure would be for an interesting debate with car cars especially since you made a list.

I was curious why they listed the 33-34 V12 Packard and not the 32 Twin-Six. All were very much alike. I know you have a styling bent towards the 32.

Also the value of the 1912 Touring White at $560K was interesting as I know two guys who have 1913 Touring Whites who said they would sell me their cars at half price They didn't know anything that would make the 1912 White worth that much as they said the value of their 1913s was in the 50Ks.

Actually, the 1932 Packard is the one that I submitted. As I said, I just made suggestions as to what should be on the list. The editor, Dennis Adler, then took my list and several others, and made his own decision as to which ones to include. We had no say after that. I don't even know why he gave us credit.

And the values were done afterward. I had no idea he was going to do that. I think he opened up a can of worms with that one. I'd hate to be fielding all the letters he'll be getting.

West,

In Dennis Alder Packard book, he indicated that most Packard collectors consider the 32-34 the best of the Packards, so it's interesting why he did not include the 32 which was very close to the 33-34 in performance, looks etc. Also since the 32 was the first year back for the V12, I would thought that might make it more significant than the 33-34.

Any time you put together a best of something list, that's a huge can of worms.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: West Peterson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually, the 1932 Packard is the one that I submitted. As I said, I just made suggestions as to what should be on the list. The editor, Dennis Adler, then took my list and several others, and made his own decision as to which ones to include. We had no say after that. I don't even know why he gave us credit.

And the values were done afterward. I had no idea he was going to do that. I think he opened up a can of worms with that one. I'd hate to be fielding all the letters he'll be getting.

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Here's the car for you at the RM Auction Only $500K-750K auction estimate.

Geez, I am pretty sure those side mount mirrors aren't original or even correct! You would think that would take, oh, 200K off the price, right?

I saw where a decent looking pre-war coupe and sedan didn't fetch very much on ebay. Now I'm wondering if $12K is too much for this 39 sedan?

Cooter, Richie66 has posted here a couple times, once to let us know he was listing his '41 120 sedan on eBay. This seems like a reasonable comparison. Watched but did not bid, it just sold for just over ten grand - seemed fair to me. I don't think he would be offended to note based on the pictures, the car your considering seems much better at first blush anyway. His looked like a very nice original, but with nothing done yet. I still maintain that the above 120 would be a very, very good buy if you can pull it off anywhere under 15 grand.

Keep us posted, I for one was wondering if you were still in pursuit!

Cooter9,

I bought a '41 120 Coupe in Idaho off eBay 6 months ago and paid $15K. Body is solid, upholstery was redone some years ago and it's been resprayed. Although a "driver" the mechanicals are another matter with front springs and shocks, king pins, tie rod ends, front wheel bearings, etc now undergoing replacement. Master and wheel cylinders have been stainless steel sleeved and new bonded brake linings to both front and back brakes. A new wiring harness and hand brake cables are also required. I've also bought new rear shocks and wheel bearings although I haven't taken the diff out or looked at the engine, trans or aero-drive yet. I'm happy with the $15K I paid, not to mention the $7K in US, O/S and Aussie shipping and various Customs and other charges to get it to Australia. And even now with all the work and parts it's taking or could still take to get it back to good running condition I'm still happy, fool that I am. Saying that, it's only the 2nd '41 Coupe in Oz that I know of, so this immeasurable aspect is also a factor in my perspective.

Like the look of the '39 from the 2 pics. If it stacks up as well mechanically as it looks, I'd say (and pay) $15 to $20K. All the best.

"leave the gun, take the cannoli" - actually, I'd take the '41 LeBaron the cannoli were sitting in.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ozstatman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm happy with the $15K I paid, not to mention the $7K in US, O/S and Aussie shipping and various Customs and other charges to get it to Australia. </div></div>

I'm glad you mentioned the shipping charges. I was curious about how much it cost to ship one around the world now.

So many people tend to forget about those charges or don't realize how much they can add up to. Even across country here in th US, shipping can cost more than you paid for the car. That happened to me once, I bought a '56 Clipper for $660. on eBay, but had to pay $1000. to get it to Texas.

Rick,

My costs include internal shipping in the US from Idaho to Orange California, about US$900, Shipping to Oz US$3000, Shipping in Oz US$400, Customs and other charges US$2900.

You can read all about it in my Project Blog in packardinfo.com - http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=319&forum=10

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ozstatman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Customs and other charges US$2900.</div></div>

Very Interesting, and Kinda Sad.