Filling Fluid Drive Assistance Please

<span style="font-weight: bold">I have a 1953 Chrysler New Yorker with a two range fluid drive transmission. She runs like a clock after 30 years of storage and several months of TLC. She seems to slip a bit in high range and the Chiltons manual indicates that I should check level of fluid in the fluid drive housing by removing a screen on the clutch housing. There is a screen that is removed held on by one bolt though it seems to provide access to what appears to be the clutch with no sign of a fill plug. There is one more screen though this one is riveted on. Any assistance would be much appreciated in determining access to the fluid torque converter drive fill plug. Yes a newbie who is stumped on this one.

With appreciation Charles In Maine</span>

This subject has been covered in depth in the Chrysler and Dodge sections. If you go back a few months looking for Fluid Drive, Transmission etc you should find much food for thought.

Briefly, you check and refill the fluid drive unit from inside the car. Roll back the carpet on the passenger side and you should find a plate in the floor, on the side of the tunnel about even with the dash board. This gives access to the fluid drive unit. Take off the plate then pry off the round cap on the bellhousing. You should now be able to see the fluid drive unit. Turn the engine with the key until a hex head plug comes in view. This is the fill plug/drain plug. By the way turning the engine with short bursts of starter power works best.

Before you take off the plug, stuff a rag around the hole. You don't want to accidentally drop the plug, or a socket wrench into the bellhousing believe me!

With the rag safely in place you can take out the plug and feel around with your finger. If your finger touches oil you have lots. If not you may need to top it up. The factory recommended straight #10 motor oil. I use TDH tractor oil (transmission, differential and hydraulic oil) ISO32 grade. You can get this from auto parts stores and farm supply places.

Now this is for the Fluid Drive model. If you have a Fluid Torque Drive it is somewhat different. On them, there is a fluid reservoir separate from the fluid drive itself.

But do look up some of the old threads, there is a lot of good info on maintaining your tranny, and the best driving techniques.

On second thoughts your New Yorker being a V8 model would have Fluid Torque Drive. This is the model that has the oil reservoir under the car.

Put the car on a hoist and you will see an oil pan like a typical automatic. It is located between the engine and transmission.

There is a fill plug on the side of the pan. The oil should be up to the bottom of this hole.

By the way your transmission still has a separate oil supply like a typical manual trans. It takes #10 motor oil or TDH ISO32 fluid.

<span style="color: #990000"><span style="font-weight: bold">Rusty_OToole

Many thanks, it all maks sense. I have removed the air conditioner to get to the access panel on the center "hump" only to find no fill plug on fluid drive unit when keyed over. She will see the lift in the morning and I will check the oil level in the torque drive reservoir. You mention that the transmission uses #10 oil what is acceptable for the fluid-torque reservoir?

Thanks again for your counsel and appreciated information

Charles </span></span>

charles, hi, it's dennis. you emailed personally about this but i am glad to see thst you are che3cking different sources as that way you can make the best informed decision. as i mentioned, your unit is an M6 and the fill plug is on the side as i said in my email. when you remove it you should be able to slip your pinky in there and should feel fluid up to the hole, that is the correct level. the iso32 tractor oil is a very popular fluid to use, the 10w is what was available at the time these units were developed. any good lightweight non-foaming oil will work. some people use dexron 3.tractor oil is what most people recommend.if you ever filled a differential this is the same method. just pump the oil in until it starts coming back out and then put the plug back in. you can use a turkey baster.the unit on my 51 windsor used to slip around turns and that was the signal that it was low. this is really a very simple thing to check and fill. i would simply jack the side of my car up and the plug was accessible. of course, always support the car with a jackstand before sliding under it. keep in mind that i along with most old chrysler guys have the manuals that cover these cars and we are always glad to help. if you look on ebay these old manuals are always for sale at reasonable prices. i have the manual for the 1953 powerflite, but not the m6.check with the p15-d24 web site as they have alot of technical info on our cars. i will look for that owners manual that i think i still have for the 53 chrysler and you can let me know if you want it. dennis

<span style="color: #993300"><span style="font-weight: bold">Well I have placed the car on a lift and there is no reservoir for the fluid drive so its not the torque drive that was an option for a 53 New Yorker v-8 Hemi. There is a removable plate on the bottom of the housing that exposes the ring gear and when turned over a drain plug is present on the fluid drive. There is no evidence of a place to fill it. Can I assume that the fluid drive unit gets its oil from the transmission and or the engine sump?

I appreciate the suggestion from Rusty that it might have its own reservoir though one does not exist. Was it common in 53 to feed the torque converter from the engine or transmission vs having to fill it from a plug on the converter body on v-8 hemis?

Again, your assistance is much appreciated. I have done my research on older threads though only seem to find references to filling from a removeable plate on drivers side "hump" or through a screen on transmission. no mention of transmission fed converter or engine fed converter.

Thanks for any assistance

Charles</span></span>

Sorry about the confusion. According to my reference works there are 3 possible configurations of transmission for 1953.

1) Fluid Torque Drive using engine oil. Fed by a passage from the back of the engine thru the bellhousing. Does not need to be checked or filled up, it is automatically kept filled from the engine oil supply. No filler plug and no oil pan, however it does have a drain plug.

Used on Fluid Torque Drive late production Chrysler 6, 1952 all Chrysler 6 1953, 1952 53 DeSoto and 53 54 Dodge V8. Also Plymouth HyDrive, 1954.

2)Fluid Torque Drive with separate oil supply in an oil pan under the bellhousing. Used on Chrysler V8 1951-53 and early production 1952 Chrysler 6.

These are both for Fluid Torque Drive which was an improvement over the Fluid Drive. Your shift quadrant should be clearly marked Fluid Drive or Fluid Torque Drive. The Fluid Drive was standard equipment, the Fluid Torque Drive was an optional extra at least in 1952 and possibly in 1953 as well.

3) The third configuration was the Fluid Drive. This is the one I described in the first entry above, the one that you fill thru a hole in the floor. Evidently your car does not have this.Not sure if this configuration was even offered on the 53 New Yorker, I believe they were all Fluid Torque Drive.

I went thru all this falderal to illustrate that your car must have the oil pan under the bellhousing as all 53 New Yorkers came that way. Unless you have some weird configuration, or yours was changed at some time. But now you know what to look for in order to identify exactly what you have.

<span style="font-weight: bold">This is a photo group looking up at the bottom of fluid drive/trans while on lift. From all that I have learned so far it seems that my 53 Chrysler hemi 331 New Yorker does not have a separate sump for fluid drive and is fed by the engine or transmission. Again there is no other plug on the housing except the drain plug shown. There is no access to the plug from any location that I can see except to drain. There is a removable plate that provides access to the ring gear and converter housing located dead center on the transmission hump close to the firewall though no clear access to the plug located between fins as seen in photos.

If it is engine oil fed, what would be the capacity of my oil pan?

Any help appreciated and what assistance that has been provided has been much appreciated.

Charles</span>

Could this be like "Hy-Drive"? The instructions I have are to drain the oil from the oil pan and the drain plug you have discovered through the access plate. To refill tighten the drain plugs, the one near the ring gear to 45-50 lbs. ft. Add 10 quarts of oil to the crankcase and then idle the engine for a minute or two. Then add another quart. At this point the dipstick should indicate that the whole system is full.

Now this Hy-Drive is what they called it on the 6 cylinder Plymouth, but if you can't find any other way to check the level then maybe the Chrysler was similar.

Good Luck,

Justin Schiess

Justin:

<span style="font-weight: bold">Thanks for the suggestion though not a Hy-Drive. The short lived Hy-Drive did not require using clutch and or gas pedal to shift and had a huge assembly that was unique. This New Yorker has two ranges and requires using safety clutch between ranges and letting off on pedal to upshift. It also down shits from 4th to 3rd and 2nd to 1st at speeds around 15mph or so. Still a mystery as to how the fluid drive is fed with oil though I am leaning towards the engine feed theory. I guess the ultimate way to tell is to drain the converter and oil pan then start adding oil , run the engine and see how many quarts she takes?? If the converter does not fill then I am back to square one as to how it is filled.

Many thanks , I am confident that someone must have a like arrangement.

Charles In Maine</span>

Charles

I have got out my 1950's MOTOR'S AUTO REPAIR manual. according to it the 53 New Yorker was fitted with the fluid torque drive trans with the seperate resevoir for the torque converter, which was filled from a plug on the left rear of the housing just in front of the gearbox, this is the type described by Rusty Otoole.from the pics you have supplied it looks like your car is fitted with the engine oil fed version which to quote the MOTOR'S REPAIR manual was fitted to the late production Chrysler6,1952,and DesotoV/8 1952, this type was also used on Chrysler 6,1953, as well as 1953 De soto and 1953-54 Dodge V/8 it has a combined oiling system with the engine, I hope this is of some help and doe'sn't confuse the issue to much

<span style="font-weight: bold">Well the mystery continues. We made the decision to drain the engine oil from the pan and then drain the fluid drive unit. We had been under the assumption that the fluid drive was fed by the engine. Well, once we started to drain the fluid drive it was clearly evident that the fluid draining was not like the dark engine oil but almost clear and most likely 10 weight or hydraulic fluid, thin etc.. We drained around 8 quarts. The challenge now is how to refill the fluid drive. If we spin the drain 180 degrees there is an access plate at the very top of the housing located at the firewall end of the passanger compartment hump. When removed, the fluid drive unit and the ring gear are clearly seen, the plug never comes in to view though can be reached.

We figured that we could fill again by using a pump and a plastic fill tube smaller than the dia. of the fill port. Not so. After revolving the fill port back to the drain position and sticking a piece of welding rod into the fill port it comes up so;id within 3/8"inch to what must be the internal converter drum. This will preclude just pumping with a plastic hose. Does this require making a special fitting in order to refill converter and is so should it be vented?

Well we know its not a torque drive, hy-drive etc.

Again we are perplexed and beg the guidance of those on this board to assist with any ideas.

Is it possible that this fluid drive unit can only be filled when removed and is not intended to have fluid added while in car? seems unlikely.

SOS for any ideas. I have seen no manual that covers this or any past thread etc..

Thanks Charles In Maine</span>

Did you look under the floor mat, on the right side of the transmission hump? There should be an access plate held down by 3 screws. It is about even with the dash board.

There must be an access plate for filling the fluid drive unit from inside the car.

A thought just struck me. Your car has the wrong type of fluid drive for the year and model. Is it possible someone has changed it? Could the original transmission have been replaced with a used tranny from a different car?

If this was the case, the tranny may have come from a car that had an access plate on the floor. Your car never had this access plate because its original fluid drive reservoir was filled from below.

You may have to cut an access hole in the floor and make up a cover plate as was done on factory models using that transmission.

If you know anybody who has a fluid drive Chrysler or DeSoto or Dodge from the 40s thru the early 50s maybe they will show you the layout in their car and allow you to take measurements.

If you have the type of fluid drive unit I think you have, there will be an access hole in the bellhousing itself. This hole is about 3 inches in diameter and is located on the top of the bellhousing at about 2 o'clock, looking from behind.

The hole should be filled by a tin plug that snaps in. This is the same type of knockout plug used to fill holes in electrical service panels and the like.

I don't know if you can feel around from underneath the car and find the plug. But if you could you would know where the access hole needs to go in the floor.

Obviously this access hole will have to line up with the fill/drain plug you already found. So that will help figure out where to look. Imagine the fluid drive unit rotated so the plug is at 2 o'clock. That is where it needs to be to pour in the fluid.

On my fluid drive, there's a plate that comes up on the passenger side, as he said at 2 o'clock. Then, there's a cover that pops off, and then you have to crank the motor over until the filler plug comes into view.

Here is the access plate on the right side of the transmission hump. Once you open this plate, there will be a round plug on the bellhousing which may be hidden under a crust of dirt. Once that round hole is open, you need to bring the same plug you used to drain the fluid around so you can access that plug to refill the FD unit. <span style="font-weight: bold">Same plug used to drain and fill. </span>The plug will be at the correct angle to fill to the proper level. #10 Tractor Fluid is best.

The only access plate is under the carpet at dead center 12 oclcok , full forward near firewall . When removed, there is a secondary housing plate (square) held on by four bolts. When removed, the ring, gear and main converter housing is visible. When drain plug is rotated to this 12 oclock position it can be reached with fingers through the port though not easily seen.

Can anyone shed light on the fact that the hole is only 3/8" deep before coming up against an inner drum? This is what makes it impossible to fill with a pump and a flexible hose. If I make a special fitting with the same threads as the drain plug we might be able to pump in fluid (8 quarts as we removed +) Again we have seen no reference to this 12 oclock housing plate, only a 2 oclock plate.

I will send photos of the transmission hump access plate.

Perplexed over the 3/8" depth of the fill hole. There must be clearance around this inner drum for the fluid had no problem draining.

We will overcome this saga.

I wonder if any units were pressure fed with a special fitting from 12 oclock or from below. If from below , getting the drain plus in would be a bear without quarts of #10 down my sleeve!!!

Perplexed though appreciative of all of your comments. We do know that cutting a new hole in the floor will only reveal a bellhousing without a corresponding access plate.

I can reach the fill plug from the 12 oclock trans hump plate. Now just to figure out how to fill with a 3/8" dia hole that is only 3/8" deep.......

Thanks again Charles In Maine

You should be able to find a round hole with a plug in it, to the right of the square plate. This is where the oil is supposed to go.

I believe they put the fill hole there for a reason. The reason is that there is supposed to be a certain air space in the fluid drive. By putting the filler over to the side they make sure you can't fill it right to the top.

Have never had any trouble filling them with a funnel and a bottle or can of oil. Even a gallon can. The oil runs into the 3/8" wide space you mention and disappears

Look at the picture CutnChop posted. See the oval plate on the transmission hump? That's the one I am talking about.

It is possible your car does not have this plate because it originally did not need one. But someone has installed a different model transmission on you, so you need to make a hole.

Once you make a hole in the floor you can fill the fluid drive unit in the usual way.

I don't know how to put this any plainer or to make it any simpler. There has to be a hole in the floor to fill the fluid drive unit and your car doesn't have one. So you will have to cut a hole and make a cover plate for it.

Fluid Drive bellhousing showing round access hole for refilling the fluid coupling. It could be covered over in a crust of dirt and oil.

There will be a silver tin snap-in cover on this hole.

<span style="font-weight: bold"> Thanks for helping me through a process of elimination. My bell housing does not resemble the photo sent by Cut and Chop which was much appreciated.. Rusty, when I trace the "orbit" of the fill-plug around the bell housing from its bottom drain plug accces panel there is no corresponding panel on either side of the housing at two oclock or other than at the the very dead center top of the housing at the full forward , transmission hump location, When factory floor plate removed, there is clear access to the converter and ring gear and the fill/drain plug can be seen with a mirror and felt by hand. It is not convienent in any way to fill though again it can be reached with a 3/8" dia plastic fill-tube (all within the front seat area , not from under the car. This access is identical to the photo I posted of the drain access plate and the fill plug is in the same relative position though at the firewall end of the transmission hump. There is a factory floor-plate that then reveas the four bold converter access plate. I will post a photo this evening of the transmission hump and corresponding converter plate.

Again I have not tried to fill because when inserting the proposed fill tube from my hand pump it only can be inserted 1/3" deep before coming up hard on an inner drum or whatever. Now maybe that will be my best bet or only chance to fill the converter. I may have to machine a fitting with a hose barb in order to fill due to depth of fill hole and no access for funnel etc. As far as the number of quarts, we drained out 8 quarts and I can find no specs on the desired capacity of the unit. It is not a question of cutting a new floor-plate to locate the "2 oclock fill-port for there are no access plates in line with the orbit of the fill plug when revolved on the housing.

There is a screen that can be felt when reaching from underneath on the lift at 12 oclock about two inches back from the fillplug location. The screen is riveted on and I believe is for ventilation cooling of the finned converter unit.

<span style="font-style: italic">So, unless it was pressure filled from the drian plug below or from the top access plate with a special threaded fitting , I see no other option for filling the drive other than removing the unit from the vehicle (UGH).</span>

Keep your ideas coming for we remain perplexed. There is no sign that this was not a factory instalation.

Does anyone else have a bell housing with a square access plate dead center on the transmission hump as far forward as possible that reveals a bell housing plate again dead center at 12 oclock position which when removed reveals the converter, ring gear and fill-plug (only by touch located on the slope of the converter between the fins)?

This is a one owner car and he was a car dealership owner. He has since passed away. Hopefuly not due to trying to locate a way to fill his fluid drive unit.

My car ran fine and some have said I should have left well enough alone. In that the car had been sitting for 30 years, I wanted to replace all fluids.

Thanks for your assistance.

Charles In Maine </span>

<span style="font-weight: bold"> I know this sounds foolish though it illustrates the challenge. If I turned the vehicle up side down, the photo of the fill plug access would be the same as on the trans hump access.

The difference is that the plug is not in line of site due to its forward hump access plate.

I guess we are down to : How can one fill the converter with this access and does anyone know capacity in quarts. Again we drained out 8 quarts of what appears to be iso32 or 10wt.

Thanks for all of your assistance and I am sure we will figure this one out for the Chrysler technical record.

Charles </span>

I will quote from my MoToR's Auto Repair Manual, 1954 Edition.

1953 Chrysler New Yorker V8 C56-1

1953 Chrysler New Yorker V8 C56-2

For Fluid Matic trans, capacity 3 pints. Fluid-Torque Drive,see footnote J, transmission only 3 pints

Footnote J. When equipped with torque converter, engine and converter have a combined oil system with the converter supplied by the engine oil pump. Oil capacity for this system requires 12 quarts of oil with an additional quart if the filter is changed. If not equipped with torque converter, crankcase refill capacity is 5 quarts.

Footnote L. For transmission only 3 pints. Torque converter has a separate oil system and requires 10 1/2 quarts.

Footnote L applies to the 1951-52 C53, C55 Crown Imperial V8 and Saratoga V8 and 1953 C59Crown Imperial V8.

So the question is, do you have a Fluid Matic transmission or a Fluid Torque Drive transmission?

I think we have already established that the engine oil supply does not feed the fluid drive and your engine crankcase does not hold 12 quarts.

We have also established that you do not have a separate oil pan under the car for the fluid drive unit.

Those are the only 2 choices offered by Chrysler on your car.

Now. If you can get a flexible hose to the fill hole, with the hole up top, then go ahead and pour in 8 quarts of oil. It will all go in if you pour it in slowly. It runs down the narrow space and fills up the fluid drive unit.

I don't know what you have in there but it does not seem to be any transmission offered by Chrysler on that model.

My guess still is that someone replaced the tranny at some time in the past, and you now have a hodge podge of old and new parts. Old Fluid Drive unit in newer bellhousing with no hole to fill it by.

You should still be able to fill up the fluid drive without any major engineering feats. If you can get oil to the hole it will run in.

Rusty: Your time, research and counsel put in on this mystery has been much appreciated. I received an email today that suggested that there were chrysler fluid drive units that shared iso32 with the transmission. Have you heard of this? I have seen no reference in any book.

I will get some photos posted of the transmission hump and 12 oclock access plate. You might be right that we have a hodge podge of fluid drive parts/ converter not matching housing etc. I still believe that we have not heard the rest of the story as yet.As you mention, we can always attempt a pour into the filler if done slowly. We know eight quarts came out and I am hoping someone will know the correct capacity of the unit.

Thanks again, we will stay on this until it is resolved for the sake of history. The car appears to be so original underneath its hard to believe that its not all factory. Now to put the transmission fed fluid drive theory to rest or to a test. I would assume that we would have to jack up the rear wheels and run the vehicle in order for any pump in the trans to circulate fluid to the fluid drive. I have visions of the vehicle driving off of the lift!

Thanks again and keep em coming!

Charles <span style="font-weight: bold"> </span>

Oddly enough I can't find the capacity of the fluid drive unit in either my 1951 owner's manual, shop manual, Motor manual, or service data book. But 8 quarts sounds right.

All the directions I have say to fill it until the fluid is up to the fill hole. But you can't do that as you do not have the correct fill hole.

My service manual does give this test. Connect a tachometer to the engine. Apply both hand brake and foot brake. Put the transmission in gear and rev up the engine. It should not be possible to rev engine to more than 1100 RPM. If it does go faster, you need to fill up the fluid drive unit. But wait until it is cold before you take out the plug.

Have never heard of a transmission and fluid drive sharing an oil supply or using the same oil.

Chrysler always specified different lubricants. 10W motor oil for the transmission and Chryco fluid drive oil for the fluid drive.

Many people recommend the TDH tractor oil in ISO32 grade for the fluid drive. This grade corresponds to 10W motor oil and TDH stands for Transmission, Differential and Hydraulic oil so I don't see why it wouldn't work in the trans as well.

By the way there is a great deal of mythology and confusion about these transmissions. I had to do a lot of research to figure them out. But once I went to headquarters and got the absolute facts, it became a lot easier to figure them out. They are about the simplest, most rugged, trouble free and easiest to keep in repair of all the early automatics. But they are definitely a design all their own.

On the lower photo, the transmission aft of the crossmember looks exactly like my 1949 M6, if that helps to identify what's in the car. It also looks as though it has the access panel in the floor to service the Governor and solenoid.

Between the open access panel and the crossmember, there looks to be another access on the bellhousing. Is there a corresponding access at 2 o'clock on that part of the bellhousing?

It sure seems odd that there would be the governor/solenoid access and not the refill access.

I am certainly no expert, but I wouldn't have expected to see an M6 behind a hemi, especially as late as '53.

What does it say on your shift quadrant? It should say either Fluid Torque Drive or Fluid Matic transmission.

I used to have a 1952 New Yorker V8 with Fluid Torque Drive, and the oil pan under the car for the torque converter. At present I have a 1951 DeSoto Six with Fluid Drive. So I do have a little experience of these.

Wish some of the smart guys would come and give us the real lowdown.

They used the same M6 transmission from 1949 to 1954. All Chrysler automatics had the same transmission in this period and all are identical except for a minor change to the position of the interrupter switch in 1952-53.

The only thing they changed was the fluid drive arrangement. There were 3 of these.

1) The original fluid drive. Self contained and filled by a hole on the right side of the transmission hump.

2)Torque converter. There were 2 types of torque converter, but they both had to have an external oil supply.

The first version had an oil pan with a separate oil supply under the car. This pan resembles the one on a modern automatic but is between the bellhousing and transmisson.

Second version used the engine oil supply. This one had an oil passage in the bellhousing that ran back from the engine then down to the transmission input shaft area. This is the one with the 12 quart engine oil pan.

In all cases the transmission is the same old M6.

One other possibility comes to mind. That is, your car takes 12 quarts of oil but the crankcase is not big enough to hold it all at once.

Could you put the plug back in the torque converter, refill the crankcase and start the engine? Let it idle and see if the crankcase oil level goes down?

<span style="font-weight: bold"> Rusty: That was one of the first steps I took thinking it was engine fed. No change in the oil pan level and besides when I drained the converter, the fluid was not 30 weight it was a light weight almost clear what appears to be iso30 10 weight oil.

As of 2am as I write this, I almost think you are right in that I have possibly a newer bell housing with an older fluid drive unit. I am not sure why the prior owner who was a Chrysler dealer until 90 years of age would have done this?

I will need to determine the threads on the fill plug for they do not look like a tapered 1/4" NPT but rather a straight thread. I almost think we will make a special adapter plug that we can use with a hose barb to refill from the awarkward 12 oclock bell-housing access plate in the drivers compartment. I do not want or mess up the threads on the converter with any "almost right thread".

On thursday a mechanic friend who worked on old Chryslers and I will take all of the input we have received re-examine all possibilities, look for any 2 oclock fill-plug etc. then try and fill the converter . We will document our attempt with photos and post the same for the record.

If you are ever in Maine, we have plenty of Lobsters and I am the 30 year Director of The Owls Head Transportation Museum which you would enjoy. We have 150 pre-1940 autos and 40 pre-1930 aircraft in the collection you would enjoy seeing.

Charles In Maine </span>

Have you considered cutting an access hole in the floor then drilling into the bellhousing with a hole saw according to the picture cutnchop posted?

I realise you would need to do some careful measuring and have a delicate hand on the hole saw but it would solve your problem and it would definitely be doable.

PS you still haven't told us if it is a Fluid Torque Drive or Fluid Matic. It should be marked on the shift quadrant.

Today Thursday we will one way or the other re-fill the fluid drive. Prior to drilling through the bell-housing we will first check that there have been no bad assumptions made on my part.

We know it is not torque drive, not engine or sump fed and that there is not the standard access in the bell housing at 2 oclock. The acccess is at 12 oclock.

We will post this eve with photos of the trans hump and the number of quarts spilled while trying to fill the drive. I have purchased a hospital IV unit which we may use to slowly feed the juice to her.

Thanks,

Charles In Maine

If it is Fluid Matic drive rather than Fluid Torque Drive, that would explain why it does not have the oil reserve for the torque converter. It doesn't have a torque converter.

However it should have some provision for filling the fluid drive, so I'm still puzzled. I would assume it had the standard thru the floor filling but apparently it doesn't.

Does anyone have a 53 Chrysler owner's manual or service manual? Perhaps they had some other setup that year?

<span style="font-weight: bold"> Rusty and Friends: Today we made a special fitting with a 1/2"/20 plug with a hose barb to accept 5/16" dia. palstic tubing. We could not instal it from the top access plug with ease so we instaled from the drain position and rolled the engine over until the fitting was at 12 oclock on the transmission (NOTE the only access to the fill-plug)with a factory plate in floor revealing the housing plate as in photo below with access to fill-hole.I used an old medical cold water circulating thermos with hose and adapted plastic tubing. We placed the thgermos atop a ladder and began the fill. It is a ver, very slow process in that there is no way to vent the converter. It slowly goes in and we have placed a gallon in after 6 hours of IV drip. Air bubles become displaced by the oil and work their way to the thermos allowing increased flow. We believe there should be 10 quarts in the converter, we drained out a measured 8 quarts. I hope we are not going to over fill and blow a seal. Any advice on quantity of iso 30 in fluid drive would be appreciated.

When I check in the morning I am hoping the final few quarts will have drained in.

Here are photos for the archives and for any comment especially on ways we might better vent the system.

I hope to post more tomorrow and once again thank those who have asisted . We still believe this is factory and that this was one of the last fluid drives before the automatic and possibly an obscure factory last attempt. We believe it was intended to be only serviced at the dealer that must have had a vented pump or fill system.

Comments welcome. Here are a few photos: Charles In Maine

Note : The small hole at 2pm is where the airconditioner drain pipe went through the floor. Note no other plates line up with fill plug. </span>

<span style="font-weight: bold"> Well todays update: With the problem of venting the fluid drive to add fluid with our barbed adapter, a local long retired fluid drive mechanic appeared on the scene and suggested that we pull a vaccuum on the line feeding the converter from our IV which successfuly extracted the air bubbles allowing for the final 2 quarts of iso 32 to be sucked in to the unit. A total of 9 quarts was added, we had drained 8 out initially. The 91 year old indicated that the last of the ole fluid drive units prior to the automatics were often only serviced by the dealer and a special combination vacuum and filler pump was used. He remembers the last design standard fluid drive units as being what our late 53 has. After much clean-up of the floor which appeared to be like Kuwait after the first Gulf War, she purred down the road again. She does slip a bit if in fourth when given the gas especially on a hill. We have yet to tackle the kickdown by pedal not working problem. I am now thinking that it might be the clutch which has barely any free play at the pedal. We are still not sure about the quantity of 9 quarts . It is not a torque converter that usually takes 10 1/2 quarts.

Any ideas on cluth vs fluid drive slippage would be appreciated. The ole timer also had us lightly heat the bottom of the fluid drive unit with a propane torch which also facilitated accelerated filling. If the fill plug access was at the 2pm position with an access plate the closed system filling could have been avoided. There was little room for us to try and fill with a loose hose in the 1/3" deep fill-hole that could only be felt and not seen.

Thanks again for all any any input

Charles In Maine</span>

We are holding a great 30th consignment auction of vehicles at The Owls Head Museum where I have been Director for the past 31 years of my 58. Visit: Gallery of over 200 vehicles to be offered.

I already mentioned the test from the service manual.Put a tach on the engine. With the handbrake on and the brake pedal held down, put the car in gear and rev it up. You should not be able to rev it over 1100 because the fluid drive unit will hold it back. Same as doing a brake torque.

This should tell you if you have enough oil in there, and if the clutch is slipping.

Incidentally hot rodders used to run the fluid drive units half empty for better performance. It had the same effect as a shaved flywheel or today they would say, a high stall speed torque converter.

They ran them with as little as 2 quarts with no harm done. Don't know if I would want to run mine that low but that's what I was told by Tom McCahill.

There is more danger to overfilling the fluid drive. If you put in too much oil there is no place for heat expansion. Excess pressure can blow the seal under extreme conditions. Ordinarily this would only happen if you were towing a trailer up the Rocky Mountains in August in low gear or something. But if there is no place for the fluid to expand who knows.

I heard that before they introduced the new fluid drive they made a few test models one of which was in a limo owned by a big stockholder in New York. It kept blowing the seal. The engineers were puzzled because this was in New York traffic in winter not Arizona or Colorado in summer.

They sent an engineer from Detroit to New York to ride around in the car and see what was going on. One day when the chauffeur was waiting for his boss he showed the engineer a neat trick. It seems if you left the car idling in gear and pulled out the hand throttle it would keep the floorboards warm as toast on a sub zero day.

But every once in a while, KABLOOEY!!!!

Ha ha ha ha ha.

They never changed the design because they figured a blown seal was better than blowing the whole fluid drive unit wide open.

The kickdown is electric controlled off the carburetor and should be pretty simple to fix. Probably a loose wire or bad connection.

You want to get a wiring diagram and make sure the wires are all exactly in the right place, it is easy to get them mixed up. I mean the ones on the coil and on the resistor/circuit breaker as well as on the carburetor.