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need help with my 1934 Desoto Airflow SE


Guest papadada

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Guest papadada

I need help with my 1934 Desoto Airflow SE.

I can't get it to turn over, the engine literally won't move. All I hear is a click when I hit the starter. So I think it's the starter, got a rebuilt, still won't turn over. Took the radiator out, got a crank and tried to turn it over by hand, nothing. It won't budge. It's been sitting in my garage for over a year when I had it towed there with the rear wheels on the ground. Maybe towing did something to it? I can put it in netural and roll it out of the barn. I don't understand free wheeling so maybe I did something to the transmision and jammed it up? But I can put it in netural? When I last drove it nothing happened to the engine, I just parked it and then I couldn't start it up again. It just would not turn over. All I hear is the starters click.

I desperatly want to get it on the road again. I really love this car and it's killing my to see it on blocks.

Is there something obvious that I'm missing?

Can anybody help me?

Thanks.

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Are you sure it has free wheeling in 1934? I thought that was out by 1934. You have done some work to isolate the issue. If you can not turn the motor by hand (using the appropriate tool to gain some leverage) then you are correct in assuming there is a bind between the motor and driveshaft. being able to roll the car in neutral , in my opinion, reduces the suspect parts to the clutch, the starter, or the engine having an internal issue.

Even though you may have faith in the starter, make sure it's OK by testing it off the car. Of course, make sure of all your other electrical tests. You can not turn it by hand so that suggests a binding issue. What caused the car to be inoperative that required towing?

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Guest JohnArthurSpinks

Pasadada & 3 Jakes,

The '34 Airflow Desoto had a free wheel transmission or was optioned with an overdrive and free wheel assembly.

Have you tried to have someone turn the engine over on the fan whilst the clutch pedal is fully depressed to the floor.

Also is the free wheel control lever on the dashboard pushed in or is it out into the direct drive position. The control knob is out if it is protruding out of the dashboard by say some 3" to 4"

Finally unbolt the starter and move it away from the mounting on the bellhousing and then see if the engine can be turned over by hand.

Reply to this Forum and we will try a few more things.

Regards

John Spinks

Aussie C9 Coupe

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Guest papadada

Thanks for responding. Nobody around here knows anything about Airflows.

It definately has free wheeling. I'm thinking that maybe I jammed up the transmission by engaging the free wheeling or disengaging the free wheeling. I understand you have to be careful how you do that. I've been reading up on it but I still don't quite understand how it works. Is it for crusing speeds like an overdrive or can you use it to shift gears without using the clutch? I've read both. I need to get in the car and drive it to figure it out, but I've got to get it out of the barn first.

When I first got the car it ran fine. I only had it for a short time when it occationally would not turn over. I got the same responce, I just heard a click from the starter. So I'd fool with it, you know, kick the tire and bang on the radiator and it would start up again. I figured that was just part of the cars personality, bothersome as it was, until the last time and I couldn't get it to start, period! We tried pushing it to get it started, popped the cluch and there was nothing. It just rolled. The cluch wasn't engaged and I couldn't get it engaged. I'm thinking the starter and the cluch are jammed up together. So after I got it home I got the clutch engaged but couldn't get it to turn. The starter that came with the car wasn't stock, so I found a rebuilt starter, I'm sure I tested it, popped that in an it's still doing the same thing?

So now I'm going to open up the pan under the fly wheel and see if I can gently get it to move.

I'm just hoping it's nothing major just a tangeled up transmission.

Well thanks again. I'll let you know what happens.

Mike Narciso

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Guest papadada

Well that might be part of the problem. The knob is pushed in all the way. It always was. I didn't touch it. I was told by the previous owner not to fool with it, It wasn't needed. So I thought, to engage it would be to pull it out. I found out later that it's engaged if it's pushed in. I'm still not sure.

I have tried to turn the engine by hand with the clutch pedal depressed. Nothing!

I have pulled the starter and tried turning it by hand. Nothing!

I am stumped!

Well thanks for your suggestions. I'll figure it out sooner or later. I think the problems going to be something simple like, "Is the knob in or is it out?"

One more thing. If the transmission is in the wrong position how do I get it in the right position without the car moving? My understanding is that free wheeling should only be engaged or disengaged while the car is moving?

Thanks, Mike Narciso

How are things down under. You have a beautiful country. I have family down there, Italians!

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Guest JohnArthurSpinks

Mike,

The Airflow Desoto freewheel transmission should look like a photo that I have scanned into my computer from an original manual and if lucky I will be able to post it as an attachment for you.

I also will try to add a few more pages as attachments that describe how it works.

Ideally the freewheel should be disengaged whilst driving the car with load on the transmission but you should be able to withdraw the control out of the dashboard if you pull it quickly and firmly.

The freewheel system works in the following way.

When the engine is driving the car on load the free wheel clutch locks up and power is transmitted to the rear wheels but when the accelerator is lifted and the engine is allowed to idle the freewheel disengages the drive and the car is allowed to coast.If the accelerator is pushed down again the transmission locks up and the car is driven under power.

No doubt you may have ridden a bike with a freewheeling hub on it instead of a fixed chain drive.

If you pedalled fast enough the bike would be propelled along but once you stopped pedalling the bike would just roll along.

This is similar to the Desoto freewheel in operation.

Yes you can shift gears without the clutch when in freewheel.

Your mention that you rolled the car along and popped the clutch out in an attempt to start it.

Obviously the freewheel control knob was in and the car would just roll on with no drive.

If the control on the dashboard was out into positive gear control the freewheel would be disengaged and most probably the engine would have turned over.

If you try this I suggest that you put the gear shifter into 2nd gear and don't use 1st gear as the car will stall unless you are on a very steep incline.

Sorry for the rather disjointed message but it has been a very long day today

Also I cannot find how to add attachments, do you know how??

Regards

John Spinks

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Guest JohnArthurSpinks

Mike,

I am lost in regards to adding attachments to this so if you need to contact me do so directly to my email johnspinks@dodo.com.au and I will send you pages of info to your private email.

regards

John

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest papadada

Well, the latest update on my frozen engine...

I've established that the rest to the drive train is working properly. Free wheeling doesn't seem to be jammed up. I can still roll it out of the barn. The cluch disengages from the pressure plate. So the problem has got to be in the engine itself. I'm going to open it up and take a look at the timing chain.

If it's something more serious than that old Flow is going to be sitting for a while. I just don't have the time to be rebuilding engines right now.

Stay tuned.

Mike

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Guest JohnArthurSpinks

Mike,

Is it possible that something like a bolt that holds the starter motor onto the bellhousing has fallen down into the bellhousing through the hole where the starter bolts on.

If this happened it could easily jam between the flywheel ring gear and the inside of the bellhousing as the flywheel runs very close.

Also why are you heading to the timing chain end of the engine.

If the cam was the problem you would still be able to rock the crank back and forward even though the movement would be limited by the slack in the chain.

Also have you had the plugs out of the engine and has anything been dropped down a plug hole.

Also undo the oil pump and slide it back out of mesh with the distributor and the cam gear and see if you can turn the crank.

Put everything back in exactly the same relationship so as to not upset the static timing.

Flick the fanbelt and check to see if the water pump has not seized up and do the same with the generator.

Let us know how you go.

Regards

John Spinks

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Guest papadada

I removed the pan from under the flywheel and it was clear. I put a bar in there and gave it a gentle tug. Nothing. Someone suggested to me the timing chain might be jammed. I haven't openned the front end of the engine to have a look yet.

I've been going over this in my head and I keep thinking it's a simple fix. Let me explain. When I first got the car I would drive it somewhere, park it, then tried to start it and got the same reaction. The starter sounded like it was engaging but the engine would not turn over. Towed it home. The next day it started right up. This happened a few times. I kept thinking it was the starter. Took the starter out, had it tested, it was fine but it wasn't a stock starter. Found a rebuilt starter, had it tested, put it in and the same thing happened. Now I have an engine that won't move. I just can't figure this out. I don't want to open up this engine unless I really have to.

Thanks

Mike Narciso

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Guest JohnArthurSpinks

Mike,

Whats the story on the engine, is it a recent rebuild or does it have a fair mileage on it.

How has the temperture and oil pressure been?

Regards

John Spinks

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Mike,

The starter might test OK off the motor, not under load. But when it kicks out to engage and spin the flywheel it sounds like it is being negated by a load that it can not overcome, a resistance.

You say the flywheel won't move. If it's in neutral, I would think it would move. It seems like we are all kind of educated guessing now, but 1st things first, I want the motor to turn over by hand (I mean with leverage, like a long pry bar or a cheater bar)

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Guest papadada

Hello again.

I don't know much about the engine, but by the looks of the grease build up around it, I don't think it's been worked on for some time. The temperture and oil pressure where fine the last time it was running.

I have tried to turn the engine by hand. I've tried taking the radiator out and using a crank on the crank shaft. I've tried removing the transmission pan and using a bar gently on the flywheel. I should be able to turn the engine by turning the fan. The spark plugs were removed during all of this. I got nothing.

The next thing is to pull it out of the barn so I can have more room to work. Jack it up and start all over again.

Thanks for the help.

I'll be in touch.

Mike Narciso

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