Buick,s in China

In todays flint paper.In 06 ,Buick sold 240,650 cars in US & 304,000 in China. Do we wonder where this is going?

I'm not sure there's much to wonder about...from what I've read, in the expanding Chinese market, it is seen as a vehicle to aspire to. In North America, it is typically seen as an "old man's car" (with apologies to anyone out there who may resemble the remark). Unless and until the cars begin to appeal to a younger market again, the trend will continue. I'm not sure if it was something Roberta posted or whether I saw it somewhere else, but Buick SUV buyers are on average considerably younger than the overall average age of new Buick buyers.

If there was something of a more economical car (think of the baby Buicks), perhaps a wagon like the SportWagon, maybe even something exciting like a Wildcat / GS / GN, a different demographic may become interested. So long as a Terrazza (sp?), a Montana SV6, and Uplander are all essentially the same, very few of the Buicks will sell.

Just one Canuck's opinion / rant....

I am still having a hard time processing the Buick Red Tag Sale ads of the past January. Two cars, two SUV's and one butt ugly, turn of the century(the 20th), minivan. As Derek suggested, where is the smaller two door with some pizzaz that would appeal to the younger crowd?

As far as the Buick being tagged as an the old peoples' car, I don't think it will be for long. Seems that based on my unscientific research of randomly asking older (WW II plates, handicap stickers) Toyota Avalon drivers what car they traded, you would be surprised of the number that previously owned a Buick or Cadillac. My next door neighbor just made the switch from Buick, four different models in the ten years he has lived there, to an Avalon.

John

Buick needs to make cars that young people like again...

My parents bought a brand new 1976 Century Custom coupe, my father was 27 back then and my mother was 21... My best friend's parents also had bought a brand new 1976 Century Custom coupe, he was 25 and she was 23. Now, none of these persons would consider buying a new Buick and they are all between 52 and 58 years old...

This is my mother when she was 21 in 1976... She was pregnant of me on that picture!

You guys have all been saying what the true Buick lovers have been saying in this forum since the late 1990's; it is almost a twist to the old Buick marketing slogan. The old slogan was "When better cars are built, Buick will build them." Now, you could just as easily say "When better, sexier, more exciting Buicks are built, people will buy them."

And, oh, by the way, in case Bob Lutz or anyone with any design influence at Buick reads this forum, better does NOT mean another boxy SUV, minivan, crossover or some other copy of a foreign car 5-6 years after the foreign company introduced the car Buick is copying.

Since Buick has often been slightly behind or patterned after Cadillac, it seems their formula would work for Buick:

1. Keep an older, full-size car line for their older buyers, but IMPROVE the full-size car. Yes, the Deville (DHS) dates back to the mid-1990s, but it is much improved, and continues to sell well to the traditional, seasoned Caddy buyer.

2. Create a new line of exciting cars for various markets. Buick seemed to just sweep the table of the older models and replace them with Lucerne and Lacrosse, assuming Buick people would buy them. This is the same stupid mistake they made when the killed off Oldsmobile--and send buyers to non-GM brands. So, Caddy has a two-door two-seater, a convertible, several versions of a sport sedan, and two SUVs, which even though everyone knows they are copies of other GM models, still doesn't seem to bother any of the buyers.

This formula has INCREASED Cadillac sales and REDUCED the average age of their buyers. Meanwhile, not only are Buick sales sliding, you can get a one-year-old low mileage Lacrosse or Lucerne for about 50-55% of its' MSRP. And, these are well-loaded cars. So, the question for a Buick buyer is, why buy a new Buick when I am going to take a 50-65% hit on the wholesale/trade-in value of the car in 10-12 months?

If Buick doesn't start producing exciting products, they WILL be the next Oldsmobile.

Joe

All of this age demographic data is generated from NEW car sales . . . NOT used car sales. It's been my observation that with each time a Buick enters (and re-enters) the used car marketplace, the age demographic of THOSE ownwers drops dramatically from what it was for the first owner. This is ONE reason that all of those allegedly evil "rental car sales" make sense and generate buyers in the used car markets (and future new car markets, in some cases).

Sure, it takes those new sales to generate product for the later used car sales, BUT it's the used car sales that generate more Buick ownwers of a more diverse demographic for a longer period of time. Here's the scenario I've observed over and over for the past decade (when I started paying attention to these things) . . .

The original new Buick purchaser could well be a "retired" person who is trading in a prior Buick (part of the generation that was keyed into trading every few years as part of an "upscale life" orientation). Does not matter if it's an older LeSabre, Park Avenue, or Century/Regal fwd car that's traded-in on the new Buick. For these people, even the standard base-line car is "fully equipped" when compared to what was optional in the 1970s or prior.

When the Regals and Centurys came out of the "program" status (on GM dealership used car lots), they were usually in the $15-16K price category with about 30K miles. I saw people in their 30s and 40s buy these cars, many times with small families "on the ground". If you follow the posts at RegalGS.org, you'll see many of these same demographics THERE too! It appears that many of the same age demographics of that group at RegalGS.org mirror those at similar Pontiac Grand Prix boards, which might be surprising to some. Lots of neat tricks and upgrades listed, just like we used to swap tuning tips in prior times!

The LeSabres and Park Avenues might have a similar age demographic for the second owner as the first owners, considering the income status of many in that age group (i.e., fixed income), but when they get to their third and later owners, the age demographic drops as dramatically as it did for the second owners of the Regals. Price point is less too. What else in that price point has the same room and comfort as these cars do??? Only the Mercury Grand Marquis and Ford Crown Victorias. I don't know how many times I've observed three young couples (married and/or otherwise) piled into a 1980s (first gen) fwd LeSabre or Park Avenue on a Saturday night out! Or a "starting out" family in one of those cars.

Sure, some of those earlier Buicks have more bright (not satinized "bright") trim on the interiors and more lavish interiors than the current "Euro drab" orientations we now have, but THEY are still 4-door BUICKS that are owned by younger people (although several links down from a new purchaser).

Now, consider what else is out there that younger buyers are buying. 4-door Mazda sedans (not specifically the sportier coupes after they get married and have a family). 4-door Hondas, 4-door Nissans (which have a great mix of bright and fancy interiors on their Altimas!),4-door Mitsus and the Toyotas. So, there are two groups of "younger people", the married and the singles. Singles (just as in prior decades) usually end up with a coupe, but the marrieds soon (just as in prior decades) end up with a 4-door or sport utility when they need the extra space (and can still afford ONLY one vehicle). Now, it seems that when you measure what Buick currently "has on the ground", for the more (allegedly) stable "family" orientation, it's not that far off in the middle to higher market segments.

I concur that it would be nice for a less expensive Buick AND a "halo" Buick to be around too, but when they tried the "Under $20,000.00 Buick Century" several years ago, it was dubbed "Grandma's car" (although a younger female and younger child were typically pictured in the ads). True, it had many features which a Grandmother would like, but trying to break out of that image for future grandmothers (and grandfathers) to purchaser seems to be extremely hard, for some reason. The "Supercharged Family" ads of the same era didn't seem to really spur Regal GS sales, though, but it was a good message. Problem was that many in the Regal GS demographic were enthralled with the Grand National and would not consider any other Buick, unfortunately--at that time.

What NEEDS to be emphasized is that all age demographics should be buying Buicks for the SAME REASONS!!! Upscale Style, performance, economy of operation (including MPG!!!!), reliability, comfort, and attractive pricing.

It is becoming somewhat problematic to effectively market Buicks. On one hand, you have the traditional owners that you desire to keep. These are becoming people who care nothing about MP3s or 6-disc CD changers, but probably do not listen to more than a few radio stations (some even AM!). They desire a column gear shifter rather than one "in the floor", as their generations grew up when a floor shift was "cheap" (not "sporty" at that time!) and a colum shift was "upscale"--we saw what happened when a GM (operative) said the last gen of Oldsmobile Auroras would NOT have a column shift (although it would have been easy to make happen with a few extra parts, possibly from a Park Avenue)! Therefore, the current "CX" and "CXL" Buicks could fit that situation, with the "CXS" models having the more "bells and whistles" and "high tech" equipment--whether in a LaCrosse or Lucerne.

If a younger person goes into a Buick dealership to look around and sees only "bench seat" (actually two of the same construction bucket seats as the "console" cars have, but with a center cushion and fold-down armrest in place of the console and floor shift) cars, they get turned off and the "old person's car" orientation is continued. If an older person goes into a dealership and sees only "floor shift" cars, they get turned off by that fact. Therefore, it should be impressed upon those doing the dealership's ordering to make sure there is a full mix of cars rather than "all the same". You have to please the "slide across the front seat to exit at the curb" generation and also the "keyless entry" generations at the same time, with all due respect.

Now, for some reason, Chrysler does not seem to have these problems--at least to the same extent. When my parents were looking for a replacement vehicle circa 1995, they found a Chrysler New Yorker (LH car) with a split bench seat and column shift and bought that over the more "desireable" LHS (buckets and console). Yet, according to the graphics we were shown at the Flint meet circt 1988, Chrysler and Buick customers "are the same people". Chrysler Corp seemed to lose more customers when they squeezed Plymouth down and finally deleted it than not having full availability of column shifts.

In prior times, when EACH General Motors division was it's own free-standing entity, there might have been some comments about how one carline was a "grown-up" other carline, which really didn't exist that way "in the metal". Now, with everything basically happening under one roof (real or virtual), the differentiation of the different GM carlines is much more important than ever before--which they have been steadily moving toward in the current products.

Here's a new twist on how Cadillac's age demographics have decreased . . .

If you're aware of what the "Alternative Mininum Tax" is, you might also know that it's been potentially affecting more and more taxpayers each year -- many more than envisioned when it was made law. So, you have all of these newly-minted "upper middle class" individuals who grew up on the tail end of the "Cadillac--Standard of the World" generation. People to whom Cadillac meant "Luxury" and were inclined to "Buy AMERICAN". They were also in the "SUV" or "Soccer Mom" generation when their incomes Escaladed. They could see the original Escalade as "an expensive Tahoe", but when the "more Cadillac" second and third gen Escalades appeared, that's what they bought . . . plus CTSs too. So, expanding the Cadillac product mix also expanded their clientel and sales. Sales which got extremely close to BMW in 2006 (with all of the BMW following and full-range product mix!).

Yes, the DTS (aka DeVille Touring Sedan) has been upgraded very nicely, but it is STILL "traditional" Cadillac. By observation, the Lucerne has garnered some following as being a more-reasonably priced version of the DTS, but a traditional Cadillac customer would (most probably) not consider a Buick.

I do believe that a Buick companion to the 2008 CTS would be great . . . let's call it "SUPER" (as it should be, as that's a word I'd use for the 2008 CTS), but make sure it's a BUICK in all areas. Rather than a "6 Litre" V-8 engine, it could be a "Wildcat 364", for example. "DynaRide" would mean "electronic ride control", too (with a "GranTouring" setting). Lots of ways to differentiate these things from other GM vehicles, possibly. Yep, these might be "heritage cues", but if you don't acknowledge the great points in your past history and use THOSE points to build and expand your future upon (as Chrysler has been able to do,even with a few miscues), you end up starting from "0" and trying to re-invent the wheel too many times (at GREAT expense of time and resources).

But then you get these "young 'uns" and "hired-in managers" that don't know about those earlier things (nor understand why they are significant!!!) that say "We can't do it that way" . . . but then seem to praise the Toyotas of the world for doing these same things a little more slowly. Many of these same people will claim the "Vehicle for every purse" orientation is outdated, but fail to see how it applies to what Toyota (and KIA, etc.) has been working toward (or even Mercedes Benz already has!) for many years. Nor do they understand that a customer for a $30K Pontiac G8 is not the same customer as a customer for a $30K LaCrosse CXS or a $30K Impala SS. It's not the price point that's significant, it's the orientation of the vehicle in that price point that's significant! TOO MUCH FOCUS ON "CUTTING" RATHER THAN BUILDING, by observation.

By observation, every time a market segment has been vacated by a USA automaker, the orientals suddenly have a product to fit there and sell lots of them. It was mentioned on a local radio show last week, in the North TX area, the "Sporty" car segment has the Ford Mustang at 44% of sales and the Mitsu Eclipse at 12%. Seems like I recall CAR AND DRIVER claiming the Toyota Avalon was "the best Buick Toyota can build"?

I feel that what's been driving sales of the new Avalon (certainly not the prior Avalon!) is it's features, fuel economy, a little styling influence, and the TOYOTA reputation. Let's see what they think after they pay for the maintenance or endure some product recalls and "fixes" or discover this "great car" has a somewhat mediocre resale value . . . or what it might cost for a replacement ignition "key" or keyless entry remote.

No doubt, there will be some cross-over "conquest" sales of the new Avalon from prior Buick customers, but I don't see that as a major thing--especially when you read the FULL window sticker and compare apples to apples. By observation, it's not that hard to get to a $40K Avalon and have less car than a Lucerne CXL (with either engine). Just as with the larger Tundra pickup, the new Avalon keeps existing Toyota customers buying Toyotas, which can be a key mission of those two new models--not so much as competing with other similar vehicles.

Many thougths . . .

NTX5467

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If Buick doesn't start producing exciting products, they WILL be the next Oldsmobile. </div></div>

Nobody would argue that Buicks need to be more boring, or that exciting cars don't sell. However Olds went into the history bin with one of the first luxury SUVs (Bravada) and an initially well-received sport sedan (Aurora) as it's anchors. It takes more.

What are the top selling cars in the U.S. (excepting trucks)? In order they are: Toyota Camry, Toyota Corolla, Honda Accord, Honda Civic, Chevy Impala, Chevy Cobalt, Nissan Altima, Ford Fusion, & Chrysler Town & Country. (Forbes.com 2006 sales rank) Now the big question: <span style="text-decoration: underline">[color:"purple"]Which is the "exciting" one?</span> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Buick's quality reputation has been sullied, and it still is. If you don't think so, check out the least reliable American car! If this is a concern, let alone an open question, people will pass on Buicks. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

<span style="font-weight: bold">That must stop!</span> When you don't have to know which Buicks are the good ones, people will buy them (after years of sitting on the sidelines to be sure in many cases).