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Rebuilding 1946 T&C Carter Carburetor


Guest pbowers

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Guest pbowers

I have just repaired (lined) my original gas tank that had an inch of sludge in it which was always shutting down my fuel system. (I would be glad to share what I learned about that process with anyone if they are interested.) After cleaning out my carburetor and installing a fuel filter, I started experiencing flooding problems starting the car. After trying a few adjustments to the float, I have now managed to make the car unstartable. I have the float set very low (as it was when I first opened up the carburetor.) It is much lower than the specs, but this seems to avoid extra fuel spillage through the various pumps and ports.) Since I'm back to square one, I have decided to order a carburetor rebuild kit from Andy Bernbaum and work throught he problem. Has anyone got any sugestions? I have checked to make sure I have adequate spark. The intake manifold ends up with a lot of gas in it after only a few cranks. Any sugestions?! Should I send it to a pro, rather than attempting it myself?

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Best answer, forget the kit and buy a rebuilt carb.

If you want to try rebuilding yourself a Carter B&B is as good a place as any to learn.

I suggest your problem is a leaky needle valve. The kit will come with a new one.

The instructions that come with the kit are more or less useless. You want to find the original factory repair manual and go by that. If you don't have one maybe someone can scan the pages for you.

Don't go getting ideas of your own. Follow the factory directions to the letter.

Be careful when you take the carb apart not to force or break anything. Don't try to take out the choke or throttle plates. If the throttle shaft has noticable wear, replace the carb. You can't fix it yourself unless you are a machinist.

Blow thru all the passages with compressed air. I like to use a spray can of carb cleaner to be sure they are clear.

Check the carb base and mating surfaces. If they are not flat you may have to true them up. Use a fine file on the carb base, a sheet of glass with 600 wet or dry sandpaper for the other surfaces.

You can improve carb gaskets by smearing on a coating of silicone seal and letting it dry. This protects the gaskets and makes them seal better. It also allows them to come away clean if you take the carb apart, and you can reuse them.

Don't overtighten the screws, they only have to be snug. If the carb leaks you can retighten once. if it still leaks ramming hell out of the screws won't help, you have a problem someplace else.

I'm pulling for you. We're all in this together.

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Guest pbowers

Great advice.

This is my first post to this forum, and it cerntainly lives up to its reputation. I think I will try to rebuild the carb with the help of a local mechanic. The Shop Manual that I have has only minimal information. If anyone has the factory rebuild instructions I would greatly appreciate it. I would be glad to pay copying / faxing costs. Perhaps Bernbaum will be able to provide the correct information.

It is hard to see how a needle valve this large could leak, but it would be nice if that was the problem. The design seems to lead to possible sticking issues. A new one would slide more easily than this 60-uear-old one I have! If I look down to the intake manifold and see gas floating down there, can I assume that the main valve is sticking and just letting gas blast into the manifold through the weakest point? Are there any other weak points that let the bowl drain gas?

Bernbaum did not seem to indicate that a rebuilt carb is readily available, and if available, he said it would be quite expensive.

I will let you know how it works out!

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Kanter has 'em for 125.00-200.00 according to their catalog. I'm having the same problem, even after having the original carb. rebuilt by a "Professional". Too bad it started leaking after the 90 day "Warranty"- and he wouldn't honor it. Maybe thats why I'm only getting 9-10 M.P.G. around town, 'ya think? Oh, well, live and learn. I'm gonna get one soon as budget allows. Gotta get front end fixed first- new upper and lower outer pin kits.

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Flooding is caused by too much gas in the carb. The only way I know to get too much gas in there, is if the needle valve lets it in.

It could be a worn or damaged needle valve, or it could be loose, or have a piece of dirt in it. Or, it could be a waterlogged float that won't float anymore.

Hold the float next to your ear and shake it, if you hear gas shaking around inside, Uh Oh, you have a problem.

You can either replace the float or if no replacement is possible you can repair the float.

You do this by by drilling a tiny hole, draining out the gas, then soldering the hole shut and soldering up the leak.

To test for leaks hold the float down in a container of hot water. The hot water will expand the air in the float and cause bubbles to come out if there are any holes.

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If you have a cork float it was originally sealed with shellac. Worn floats can be recoated with ordinary shellac from the hardware store.

Alcohol will dissolve shellac so it is recommended you use something else if you want to stand up to modern gas which often contains alcohol. I recommend you use leftover gas tank sealer.

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Guest pbowers

Thanks for all the advice and the service procedure manual.

I have the carb apart now. Does anyone know why there is a 5/32 "hole drilled into the air horn cover directly over the float. Does anyone know what the purpose of this is? Presumably there was once somethig screwed into it on the cover (?) But I suppose it could serve as a vent hole (?) Should I leave it open (?) Am I missing something?

Any ideas?

Otherwise there are now surprises so far, except that the standard rebuid kit does not have a small round plastic washer / gasket to replace the one in the "step up spring and gasket assembly."

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Guest pbowers

You know your parts. I scraped some crud off the fin and is says The carb says "E 7 A 1" To the left of that on the fin there are three small holes punched in the metal of the vertical fin. The middle hole is a cross. That corner of the air horn top has the anti-stall solenoid screwed onto it. When I first got the car in the 1960s there was a curved wire holder shaped like a "C" screwed onto the top of the carb on that side using the holddown screw for the air horn to keep it in place. It must have been used to hold the wire for the solenoid, but it is much too large for that, so perhaps it held a flexible fuel line (?). The hole I am talking about is on the other side of the fin, right in the corner made by the fin and raised portion of the air intake. Is it a vent?

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The hole in the float bowl cover was probably made to accomodate an aftermarket Southwind gasoline heater. It may be plugged. The holes punched in the vertical strengthening vane are inspectors stamps.

When you disassemble the carburetor for rebuilding, check the castings for warpage. After cleaning the castings, assemble the castings together WITHOUT gaskets, and hold up to a light. Chances are good there will be major warpage present (this wasn't one of Carter's better carburetors). If warpage is present, it should be removed with the use of a clamping fixture, and heat; DO NOT FILE OR MILL THE CASTINGS! The warpage is caused by too few attaching screws for the castings.

Carter made some really good 1 barrel carburetors during this period. The WA-1 used on Hudson, Olds, Pontiac, Packard, etc. was excellent; the W-1 used by Chevrolet and GMC was very good; and then there was the BBR series, used primarily by Chrysler and Studebaker.

A story that I find interesting regards a strike at the Carter plant that produced the BBR carbs in 1947. Carter had a sufficient inventory to continue to supply Chrysler, DeSoto, and Dodge, but they ran out of the carbs for Plymouth. So for a 2 or 3 month period in 1947, Carter supplied Plymouth with the more expensive Chevrolet carburetor at the price they normally charged for the BBR. The customers with the Chevrolet carb got much better driveability, better power, and better fuel economy than those who got the regular Plymouth carb.

Jon.

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Guest pbowers

Thanks Carbking. I'm plugging the hole. Perhaps that bracket I took off the cover screw also went to that gas heating device. (It sounds a bit dangerous!) That is some very good advice. I will report back on my progress. I'm going to apply what I learn on this project to rebuilding the four-barrel on my other car, a 1954 Crown Imperial. It won't start cold without pouring some gas down the air horn opening. It's the Carter Model WCFB-2041S. Any comments? I have some pretty good instructions in the Shp Manual. The engine has had a valve job and runs very smooth and starts fine when warm.

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  • 3 weeks later...

(I would be glad to share what I learned about that process with anyone if they are interested.)

I will take you up on that. Have a 57 nash metropolitan which ordinarily will start at 40 below zero,

at 120 in the shade or even under water (perhaps, I exaggerate). then it changed it's mind.

I had the fuel pump rebuilt and it ran perfectly. then I moved far away from my trusted mechanic.

Drove it on to a flatbed and brought it to the new home. That was it. She won't start.

No gas is coming forward. Have not taken anything apart because my driveway is not suitable

for working on it. however, I have discussed this with the old trusted mechanic and we think that

the problem is most likely in the tank or fuel line. I have asked around no one seems to know anything

about the process of cleaning tank and lines. Will appreciate all info you can provide.

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pbowers,

Just found this discussion.

Look at your fuel inlet fitting (the part of the brass needle seat which shows on the front of the carb). Is it square with the front of the carb, or does it appear crooked? If it angles up, down or to one side, it may be as a result of a distorted bowl casting. It is rare, but occasionally the combination of time, heat and pressure from a mis-aligned fuel line can actually bend a pot-metal bowl casting off-square at the front. If that happens, the float lever will not hit the needle squarely and the carb will always flood. It can be repaired, but only by a pro.

On the other hand, you could simply have a faulty needle & seat. Correct float setting is 5/64" below the bowl gasket surface. If the carb won't work with this flaot setting, something else is wrong which altering the float level won't cure -- bet on it.

Good luck!

Jeff Dreibus

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Guest imported_billmeyer

I experienced all the problems you outline with the Carter carb in my '50 Dodge. I tried rebuilding it and then had a local mechanic try his hand at it, all to no avail. I finally sent it off to be professionally rebuilt to www.carburetorexchange.com (check their web site). The cost was about $175. It came back looking like new and all I had to do was bolt it down, hook up the linkage and fire it up. VOILA! The car ran like new! All I had to do was adjust the idle speed... they said not to touch anything else. I'd highly recommend them.

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Guest pbowers

What you will probably find if you apply some compressed air to your fuel line is that some crud has blocked it. If you apply compressed air and can hear the air bubbling through the fuel in tank, you have freed up the line. Install a fuel filter, clean out your fuel pump and the bowl of your carb and you may be able to at least get it started. If you continue to pull crud up from the bottom of the tank, you may be able to remove the plug at the bottom of the tank and flush it out. Very few of these plugs continue to function after 50 years. I got tired of all this and removed my tank. I boxed it up in an old box I had from a bathtup I bought, and shipped it UPS to a place called Moyer in PA that you can contact by using this link: http://www.gas-tank.com/. THey misplaced a spacer in the access point for the fueld line which made re-installing the line a bit difficult, but otherwise it was painelss and it cost me about $300 in all including shipping. The stuff the line tha tank with reminds me of the impervious plastic they may portable gas tanks out of.

By the way, don;t blow up your garage while you are doing this! Read this link from the Imperial Club Web Site: http://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/Fuel/tank.htm.

also, maybe I should stop givng out advice. I still have not been able to start my car, but at least I have cleaned all of the crud out of the lines, fuel pump and carb. I think I'm going to take the suggestion of the gentleman who recommend I ship the carb out for rebuild. When I crank the engine, I can see a pool of gas building up in the intake manifold still aftet rebuilding it myself. I think the float is working, but the bowl is draining somehow. I will certainly know the fuel system of this car inside and out by the time I am done.

I hope that this will generate some more great input. I an learning a lot on thie forum!!!!!!!!

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest pbowers

I'm ready to buy a new carb. This car will not start!

I've rebuilt the one I have and it continues to flood, even after checking all the itesm that people in this forum have recommended. I can see about a 1/2 inch of gas in the intake manifold after only cranking the engine for three seconds. If I spray ether in before I crank, it will kick over for a split second, so I know that I have ignition. This is a 1946 TOwn and COUntry with a carb that reads "E7A1" on the top vertical piece. Does anyone know what the corresponding Chyysler part number would be and where the best source would be for a new one? What prices have people seen?

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Guest pbowers

I just talked to the Carburetor Exchange in Phoenix, AZ. Very nice people and informative. They wil rebuild it for $156. It sound like a pretty good deal. Does anyone have any experience with them???? ZI'm going to ship it out this week. Wish me luck. I should have listened to the first person I got a response from on the forum!!!!!!!!!

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  • 7 months later...
Guest pbowers

I hope that at least one person reads this final entry to learn something about this engine that no one thought of. I did not mention it originally in this string, but when I installed a gas filter I put it between the gas tank and the fuel pump. This is not a good idea. The air that gets trapped in the filter gets into the fuel pump and causes sudden intense bursts of fuel line pressure that override the float valve. That's what caused the flooding

I took out the filter and installed a direct line between the metal fuel line end and the pump, and the car started.

It only took me five months of tinkering to figure it out. I feel pretty stupid, but at least I was smart enough to retrace my tracks back to what I changed. The funny thing is that at one point the car ran with this filter in place. (Go figure!)

The pay-off is that I have a completely clean fuel system and a carb that has been rebuilt twice. The CARB EXCHANGE was great. They convinced me that the carb was fine, and it is. It looks like a new carb and works great.

Does anyone know where I can get a coil for this car with the bracket built in? I had to jury rig the new coil without a bracket. That is what was grounding out my electrical system. The next step in the restoration is to repair some of the wood paneling.

Thanks for all the advice. I never gave up!

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Guest pbowers

Thanks!

That fuel pump on the 1946 engine may be finicky. I could see the bursts of fuel pressure on a gauge that I put on the fuel line while cranking it.

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  • 3 months later...

Carbking...

Been playing with my Carter for weeks now. Rebuilt it (kit less than desirable) but did include a cool... what I believe to be up-dated needle valve, works good! However have been looking for a replacement carb, and very much interested in the 1947 Chevrolet carb. What years will work on my 1939 6 cylindar Chrysler. Can you give any spec's on the Chevrolet carb. Where can I get one?

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