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Hemmings Classic Car Article on Pebble Beach Concours


Guest BJM

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I just read the article in Hemmings Classic Cars page 82 Personality Profile on Sandra Kasky Button and what is going on with the Pebble Beach Concours. For those who get this magazine, the Personality Profile usually covers an owner or owners of an old car business or concern, and it's someitme a crusty old guy looking unhappy to be photographed. What a pleasant surprise to see this beautfiul blonde. In this context, I can not elaborate, since some readers are ladies, but let's just say she was "easy on the eyes". It's shameless that HCC would use that face to get me to read the Personality Profile article. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

So I read the article on Pebble Beach Concours. I think everyone in the old car hobby is familiar with it ("It's a car show"). My 1st exposure to it was in the late 70's when I got interested in old cars in general as a 14 year old and picked up a Car Classics and Car Collector magazine which must have mentioned it.

However, ever since it and other Concours have been around, they have seemed to be a playground for the rich and snobby. Sandra Kasky Button all but admitted that. One of the interesting things mentioned was what cars are invited. She stated that a concours is for coachbuilt cars, not production cars. Now, of course some productions cars and even hot rod customs get invited but she said it remains a show for the coachbuilt car.

Next she stated that cars shown at Pebble Beach can not be shown anywhere else first (No Amelia Island or Meadowbrook). Finally she stated that the number of cars invited is being limited to 175 from about 220. She also stated that Pebble Beach will always focus on Classics, allowinga trickle of 50's and 60's cars in.

That leads to my point of interest. How can the show sustain even 175 cars that mostly focus on coachbuilt cars, that must be fresh restorations - every year? How many Duesenbergs, Marmons, Pierce Arrows and Stutz', etc are left in barns to restore to show for the 1st time at Pebble Beach? During the coachbuilt era of approximately 1925 to 1941 at the latest, there probably were not more then a few thousand of these cars made. The article even says that most Packards do not qualify. The coachbuilt Packard was the exception during teh 30's especially - maybe 200 were made? 300? And some of these were lost forever. Certainly by the year 2007, every Packard coachbuilt car has probably been across Pebble Beach's 18th hole. Ditto for Cadillac, the only other mass production company that had coachbuilts made in the 20's and 30's. You'll always have Auburn-Cord-Duesenberg's but their total production in the coachbuilt era was maybe 5,000 to 10,000 cars and a lot of the Auburns were factory built cars.

That also got me to wondering about how a person goes about getting their car into the show. Can an average Joe restore a coachbuilt car or a significant car being showcased in a particular year and get it invited? Do you start by sending a letter to Sandra? How does that process go down? "Hey Mrs. Button, I've been working on my (Fill-in-the-blank) for 10 years, I think it's perfect, I haven't shown it anywhere else, here is a photo of the body, and here's the interior, and the motor - can I get an application for the 2007 meet, please?"

On the spectator side, it looks like a wonderful setting and show. $175 admittance fee, high, but all goes to a charity. To see the best of the best ona setting like Pebble Beach Links, wow. I wonder how close you can get to the cars. If someone reads thsi post, who hasbeen there - please enlighten me (and others interested) in what it is like. Does every entrant drive down the path they have there on awards day? Can you get anywhere close to them? If you come the day before the awards day, is that a day you can walk around and view the cars?

I thought it was an interesting article and wondered what others thought, that had read it. I'm open for a yearly mug shot of Mrs. Button in an annual Pebble Beach article. Reading, HCC staffers?

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Funny you mention Ms. Button's "mug shot". It caught my eye while reading and eating lunch yesterday. While she is an attractive lady what really caught my attention was how carefully the photo was composed. It was shot with a telephoto lens which has the effect of compressing the fore and background which enhances human facial features. I would also guess it was shot with fill in flash to minimize facial lines. By using a telephoto lens at large aperture the photographer was able to use a very narrow field of focus. Notice how sharply the focus is on her hand ( every pore can be seen ) but the focus softens as it gets to her face ( her ear rings and back hair are actually out of focus ) again minimizing any lining that might be presant.

It is a very well done photo maximizing her attractivness.........Bob.

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Bob,

I did notice her matching watch band. It was some professional photography to be sure. I can't tell what she is sitting in. Scruffy she ain't!

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She is most definitly wrong about cars not being shown at other concours first. Most invites are given to cars that have place first at other high line concours. One cannot apply to Pebble Beach they have to extend an invite or have an inside connection with "wheels " in the circuit. One personal note: the admission fee of 175 is the biggest ripoff in the business. I don't really care how wealthy one is, it is not a measure or ones interest or knowledge of cars. And I don't believe that charity should be used as an excuse to rip people off either...

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wrong! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> </div></div>

Hi Steve, Hope you had a nice Thanksgining, did you notice nobody made mention of that American tradition on the Forum? I know you've been to PB, I may be the only Forum member to have drived around a Best In Show car before its restoration. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

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There are many, many custom bodied cars from the 1920's & 30's that have never been to Pebble Beach. And, many, many of these cars were bought by people 20, 30, even 40 years ago who still own them in original or unrestored condition that have never had them at ANY concours. There are still a lot of cars out there in the woodwork. Not everyone who has a desirable custom built car is interested in publicity or the concours circuit, or should I say concours circus. I've been told if you have a "proper car" that a couple phone calls to the right people will get in touch with the "decision makers." Any of the owners of the major restoration shops would know who these people are. If you have the "right kind of car" the "average joe" can get in, just don't act or dress like an average joe. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

One other thing, I think when they talk about the cars not being shown anywhere else first, I think that mainly refers to other major concours events. I think if a car were shown at a CCCA meet or ACD meet that would be OK. Pebble just doesn't want the car shown at another major concours before it gets shown there. It's just a part of Pebble's way of being snobby and this guarantees a fresh crop of cars each year. I think there are exceptions to that rule too. The 1911 or so wooden skiff bodied Mercedes that gets mentioned here a lot was at almost every concours in the country & I'm not sure Pebble was the first one it went to. Also, the cream 1934 Packard Twelve Dietrich conv. coupe that was Ken Wessel's was at Pebble in 2006, but that car was restored in 1990 and had been at Meadowbrook before, along with numerous CCCA National Meets. I'll give Pebble a lot of credit for having the unrestored class though, which is one way an "average joe" could get a car in.

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When I first applied for Pebble back in '02 I was told that my '56 Continental Mark II convertible was too new and wasn't accepted by the CCCA. I went to the CCCA and was politely told that 1948 will always be their cut-off. Although my car met all their other criteria, its age was the determining factor.

My car has since been in 18 Concour, including Meadow Brook, Amelia, Ault Park, Radnor Hunt, Geeenwich, Glenmoor and Eyes on Design and have taken a trophy in every major show (and, we've never been rained on <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. We have many Best of Class and about 6 top special merit or design awards.

I understand that they now allow coach-built cars from the '50s at Pebble but we haven't received our invitation. Our car is very well received on the Concours circuit but the competition at Pebble would certainly make me come home empty handed. Not that I wouldn't like to try, I just don't think it would stand a chance.

Last weekend we were in the Naples Concours. It was 80 of the finest cars I've ever seen. Each car was a star in it's own right. We got another top award. Maybe that's why Pebble doesn't invite us. We're used merchandise.

I'd like to comment on the earlier comment about Concours being a snooty event. I've not experienced Pebble but I can tell you first hand that just about everyone we've met that's connected with the Concours circuit are real down-to-earth people. Don Sommer, head of the Meadow Brook Concours for 28 years is a hands-on maker of fine automotive hood ornaments and trim. The man that's taken the reigns of MB is Larry Smith, a hands-on bodyshop owner. The vast majority of car owners are real down to earth people. You meet people from all walks of life cutting across all social and economic levels. We all seem to have a commonality that overcomes typical social barriers.

There's a phenomena that's connected to the show that's intentionally snooty and this may be where the confusion enters. There is typically a black-tie charity event associated with many of the shows. While some of us entrants go to the black-tie, most of the people that attend are the local social and automotive elite. A major sponsor will pay for a very tasty dinner for 500 people and the ticket sales goes to charity at $250-$300 a head. You are typically bored to tears by some has-been race car driver that would rather talk about himself than anything else in the world (with the exception of Janet Guthrie and Sir Stirling Moss) but, you get to rub elbows with the movers and shakers of industry. I personally don't care for the black-tie events but the better half really enjoys getting dressed up so I bite the bullet and go. I make her sign the check though.

For those of you thinking of traveling to put your car in a Concours there is good news. Most Concours are 501-C3 charities. Without the owners there is no car. Without the car there is no show. Travel expenses related to entry into a charity Concours are tax deductible to the extent of your tax rate. My CPA belongs to a group of tax attorneys and CPAs that back the legitimacy of the deduction. Our recent trip to Naples, Fl allowed me to deduct my airfare (but not my wife's), lodging, rental car, my food (but not my wife's) and the transportation cost of getting the car to and from the show. The trip to Florida exceeded $7,000 for a four-day stay. All to win an $8.00 trophy. But, I think I did some good in helping to raise money, while doing well by geting a great vacation and meeting some terrific people.

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As Jay Leno once said. "Pebble beach is a place where mere millionaires can compete with billionaires!" Of course he was joking to some extent. I know several AACA members who have had the honor of having vehicles invited to Pebble Beach as well as some of the other Concours events around the country. These were not always with what one would call "Very Expensive" vehicles either. The Concours are usually interested in vehicles that are unusual or historically significant either in History in general or in the Automotive Field through innovation or design. So really most anyone has a chance. These people I mentioned often received their invitations because their vehicles were seen at AACA National Meets. The Concours events are great fun and give you a chance to see some really unusual stuff. Not just expensive ones. My favorite of the Concours' is The Glenmoor Gathering held every September in the Akron-Canton Ohio area. Last year I saw a very early motorbike with a propeller! I couldnt get away from it and I am not even a big bike fan. I had the pleasure of riding from the show field to the trailer parking lot (a few miles away) in a fabulous and beautiful early 30's Ford School Bus. I try to attend a couple of concours events each year. Mostly as a spectator. Though on a few occasions with a vehicle. I have never been to Pebble Beach but have only heard good things about it.

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Thanks to all for some great comments and insight. Based on what I know, Meadowrook has the reputation of being more accessible. When articles on MB are done, the photos show a wide range of cars.

I had no idea there was a lot of unrestored coachbuilts left out there that the owners did not want to restore or show. That still stikes me as hard to believe. Every time you hear about a special so and so car being shown, they say it is one of 7 and one of 2 kown to exist and the other one is owned by Ralph Lauren or Jay Leno, that sort of thing.

I am sure it pays to be well connected. I am sure the major restorers know where the cars are and when the time comes they mention to the owners "Let me restore this and we will show it at PB in 2007". Kind of like being invited to the Kentucky Derby.

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Barry - what did you have to do to get the Lincoln that nice? Was there an extra level of detailing and attention to detail (read: money) to get to the concours level? Thanks for your previous commnets.

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The previous owner restored it to that level. I've been merely its caretaker. People that do bodywork for a living are pretty amazed at it. They say that it's all about time.

Everyday cars can make it into Concours. Rarely do they win. I do car selection and Concours judging. I try and stay away from belly-button cars. Their owners often get their feelings hurt. I judged in one show where a guy brought a 340 Duster finished to Ferarri levels, but it was still a mass-produced car. No emotion.

Concours are all about style and beauty, not necessarily preparation or condition. While some Concours use AACA or CCCA guidelines the final tally will be about how much emotion a particular judge will have towards a particular car. Design and beauty are everything. Look at the cars that win at Pebble. If they don't stir your emotions, you've had a labotomy.

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My wife & I have been to Pebble Beach maybe a half dozen times. The same weekend is the Monterey Historics at Laguna Seca. Just hang out on a street corner in Carmel Saturday night and see cars you'll see anywhere else.

We've had our Packard to a few local shows: Glenmoor, Cranbrook, Gilmour etc.

The people are a slice of life; very interesting and knowledgable through ignorant slobs.

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Just hang out on a street corner in Carmel Saturday night and see cars you'll see anywhere else.</div></div>

I think Bill meant cars you'll see "Nowhere" else. I spend many months in the Carmel area during my basic training. Even in 1967 I saw cars I'd never seen in Virginia, a real eye opening for a young car person.

Wayne

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I try and stay away from belly-button cars. Their owners often get their feelings hurt. I judged in one show where a guy brought a 340 Duster finished to Ferarri levels, but it was still a mass-produced car. No emotion.

</div></div>

Barry, just curious: what's a "belly-button car"???

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I try and stay away from belly-button cars. Their owners often get their feelings hurt. I judged in one show where a guy brought a 340 Duster finished to Ferarri levels, but it was still a mass-produced car. No emotion.

</div></div>

Barry, just curious: what's a "belly-button car"??? </div></div>

Everybody has one!!! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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Barry, not that I want to interrupt a potential argument in the making, but I am curious too. What is meant by the term "Belly button cars"?

I have never heard the term before. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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That term was used long before I got into the Concours cars. It simply means any mass produced car that you see a lot of.

It's a belly-button car, 'cause everyone has one". My mother, who would have been almost 80 now, used the phrase when I was a kid. Sorry if it offended anyone. Geez.

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Thanks for the explanation.

So when your mother was young, my 1929 Ford Model A Phaeton might have been a belly button car (or maybe not), but it might be one of the few specific Model A's that now would not be a belly button car, even though it was mass produced? <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Who would have ever expected to go to two different National Shows with a Model A Ford and find yourself as the only car in its class... <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the explanation.

So when your mother was young, my 1929 Ford Model A Phaeton might have been a belly button car (or maybe not), but it might be one of the few specific Model A's that now would not be a belly button car, even though it was mass produced? <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Who would have ever expected to go to two different National Shows with a Model A Ford and find yourself as the only car in its class... <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> </div></div>

Actually, my mother was born in Detroit in '29. I was born in '52 and lived in and around the Motor City my whole life. My parents eventually were upper middle class and we lived in neighborhoods where Chevys were belly-button cars and then moved into Buick and then Cadillac neighborhoods. Everyone was trying to keep up with everyone else so there were Caddys by the dozen. My father was the neighborhood radical, he drove Lincolns.

And yes, in my estimation, anything rare would take it out of "belly-button" class.

Question about the Model A. It was electric start, correct? Were you able to start it with a hand crank if necessary?

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Yes, you can start Model A's with a hand crank. This is my third Model A. I have started the first two by hand crank (just to prove I could do it). I have not owned this one too long, and it was already restored a lot nicer than the first two. I am currently waiting to take it to the Grand National in July and have been trying to be careful with it until then. To be honest, I really had just not given any thought to try starting it with the hand crank. It runs better than the first two, so I am sure it could be done without any problem, I just have not handstarted this particular car yet. Now, I guess I have to go do it since you got me thinking about it. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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Hi

I've had three cars at Pebble. My Ford MK-IV, my Dusenberg and Ferrari P 4/5 by Pininfarina (Display). I very much enjoyed the experience and found it a lot of fun. Twice I drove on the Pebble tour which leaves from Pebble and winds 60 miles down the coast, stops/parks in downtown Carmel for lunch, (No charge to see the cars there) and returns. I found the judges knowledgeable and fair and if you want you can exhibit "Display Only" My cars are not super concours and have a bit of road rash as I use them regularly but I still got a third and second in class. If you have a car that you feel from looking at what they've shown in the past might be of interest drop them a note and they will respond. Some take it VERY seriously I stay calm and enjoy it.

Best

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Thank you for your input, as one who has been there 3 times. I went to visit the Pebble Beach website to gain more insight into the event. The honorary judges list was most impressive. That tour, the 60 miles tour, sounds awesome to participate in.

Please answer - how did you get the 1st car in, invited, did you petititon? Did you send photos and a description of the car to one or more known folks in the nomination committee?

Also, since you had a car entered, do you stay close to your car during the morning? How close can spectators get to these very expensive cars? This forum has mentioned before the poor taste some folks have of a local event.

When do you get there? Do they send you a congratulatory letter well in advance? Just some questions I came up with. Thanks again.

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Hi

My cars are pretty well know. In the case of my MK-IV it's the only one to have finished Le Mans that still runs so when Pebble celebrated the 100 Anniversary of Ford the selection committee contacted me. After that they stayed in touch and I applied for admission with my Duesenberg and they accepted my entry. There's an application that requires photo's, history, etc. They are a very friendly group. Sending a letter with a description and photo's to the approiate nominating committee is a good idea.

They let you know well in advance and help you with hotel reservations which are a bit tough. They throw wonderful parties and you'll enjoy every moment.

There are many great events in Monterey at that time and I'd recommend Sports Car Market Letter Monterey weekend issue as a good guide.

There is a lot of security at Pebble and everyone is very respectful of the cars. You can certainly walk around but some one should stay with the car to answer questions as there will be many.

Best

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

There is a lot of security at Pebble and everyone is very respectful of the cars. You can certainly walk around but some one should stay with the car to answer questions as there will be many.</div></div>

That's the part I like best. I love talking to people.

I'm curious. Do you like a roped or open show? I find the ropes a bit standoffish. Just seeing the front view of a car doesn't do the whole car justice.

I find men are very respectful but women, in general, are less careful about their purses and jackets. Very seldom do people actually touch the car, but it does happen. I've only had one person open the door and sit down but those that ask are welcome to. I try to keep my Mark II convertible in top form but, like yours, my car gets driven. I've racked up about 3,000 miles a summer. In fact, it's at R & A Engineering being treated for road rash and owner-induced damages. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

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I like all kinds of shows. I did smile a bit when a replica GT 40 beat out my MK-IV once at a local show. I will admit that his car was a bit shinier...

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