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Don't know what I've got. 1946 Chrysler Windsor 2 Door HardTop


gdtractor

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Hi

Don't know what I've got. 1946 Chrysler Windsor 2 Door HardTop

The person I bought it from says it is a 1946. Says Chrysler Windsor [Newport].

It was in a field .... nearly in a swamp .. but is still in unbelievable shape.

Only one small broken window. I can't believe it is not rusted thru .. in fact it has very little rust and no big dents. (leaves on the hood not rust).

Is it possible to send a pic to someone and have someone tell me what year - etc .. they think it is .. (I can't find a 1946 HardTop online anywhere).

Thanks much ..

gtractor@iserv.net

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That's a 1953 Chrysler Windsor. Windsor is the model, meaning it's a six-cylinder car, and Newport means it's a hard top.

All the 1949-1953 six-cylinder Chryslers and DeSotos and identical under the skin, and there are lots of parts available and plenty of people who can help you in forums like this.

With a little patience, this will be a very good and very cute car.

Ask all the questions you want. There's no such thing as a stupid question.

JON

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Thanks so much Jon.

How did you know it was 53? I am not sure why he told me it was a 46.

I can't believe it has nearly NO rust .. a little on the rocker panel .. but that it is ..

The hood or trunk .. are dent free -- "how can that be after nearly 60 years?" <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks again much ..

I am very excited about this old car ... I have wanted one for a long time .. and happen to stubble onto this one ...

I have been watching it for quite while .. in a field .. near a swamp ..

Again .. I can't tell you how excited I am ..

Gary

gtractor@iserv.net

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Guest imported_BaronvonR

The Newport only appeared in the Winsdor Deluxe series. It was a 6 cylinder that cost $3025 and weighed 3775 pounds. Total production was 5642 and could be purchased, at extra cost, with a 2 tone paint job. If your car was a New Yorker Newport it would have a 331 Hemi in it.

You have a very nice find there. Enjoy it for it will give you years of driving pleasure and is a great road car.

BvR

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Gary:

You posted a photo of the car, and I assume you have a digital camera. Give us a few more shots of the car. A shot of the engine compartment will enable us to tell you a lot more about the car and its condition.

You sound very enthusiastic about the car, and with a little patience and work, it could be a different car in a month. We'll walk you through the procdures.

Have you worked on cars much? Do you have a good set of tools or access to them? Do you know anyone with a lift?

Start thinking about these things:

1. Pull the oil pan to clean out the bottom of the engine and the oiling system.

2. Flush out the cooling system through the two bottom freeze plugs on the driver's side of the engine.

3. Install new belts, hoses, and spruce up iginition components. Fill the cooling system to see if the radiator leaks badly.

4. Rig up fuel to the carburetor from a gas can. Maybe install a new fuel pump with a hose into a gas can on the ground. Rig up wiring from a battery directly to the ignition system and starter. See if it'll fire up. If you can get the engine to run, you'll be able to see what you have. If it doesn't run or blows up in the first five minutes, don't panic. These engines are plentiful and still inexpensive, and you can build a strong engine for about $1,500.

5. If the engine runs, we'll walk you through checking the transmission and a big brake and wheel bearing job. Throw on a set of used tires. You might be able to putt around the yard and learn more about the car's condition. I warn you that you're going to have one hell of a hard time getting the rear brake drums off that car, but we have plenty of advice on that.

Then, comes the really hard part -- door latches, wiring, weather stripping, problems under the dash with the radio or wiper motor. This stuff's a lot harder than getting the car to move.

None of this is terribly expensive -- mostly just a lot of work. Immediately join the WPC Club (Walter P. Chrysler Club), and see if there are members near you who can help you. Most car guys are pretty generous with their experience.

JON

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Jon --

Wow !! .. thanks so much for the advance ... !!

We just had an ice/sleet storm a few days ago . and we were without power ... and just now getting settled back in.

and yes .. I do have a digital .. and will try and take some more pics ..

It was close to [0] zero this morning .. and I don't have a good place to work on the car at the moment .. but am VERY anxious to see what I have !!!

I fully understand it will take a lot of patience ...

One thing I do have to get is a water pump .. it is missing .. probably was going to be replaced and did not get put back on ..

Thanks again .. .and I will now keep checking the discussion board ..

I can't believe the help on this discussion board !!

Gary

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Gary:

Your water pump is a 55-713 at NAPA Auto Parts. These are brand new pumps, not rebuilts.

Your engine should be a bright silver, so paint the water pump with high-temperature "aluminum" color engine paint.

Before you put the water pump on, check the condition of the water distribution tube. Where the water pump mounts, you'll see a crescent-shaped opening into the engine block. This is where the water is pumped into the engine. There should be a steel tube laying loosely in that hole. It's about two feet long, kind of flat like the shape of the hole, with a series of holes in the top where it pumps water to the hot spots where the exhaust valves are. If it's stuck in there, you may have to destroy it to get it out, but you can get new ones through Robert's Motor Parts, Andy Bernbaum Auto Parts, or a good forklift parts supplier. If you go to the forklift company, don't tell them you have a '53 Chrysler, but tell them you have an old Yale forklift with a Chrylser Industrial Model 33 engine. The model 30 was the small six you find in Dodges andn Plymouths, but the 33 is the big one like you have in your Chrysler.

With the water distribution tube out of the block, you'll be able to flush out the cooling system by popping the two lower freeze plugs out of the drivers's side of the engien block. You might have to remove the oil filter to get to the rear one. It's not a bad job, and I realize you probably won't get to it until the weather warms up. I'll walk you through it then.

You'll have to pull the radiator to get the water distribution tube out. This would be a good witer project. Pull the radiator, send it to the radiator shop to be cleaned, checked, and repaired, and then, replace the water tube.

In the meantime, don't get impatient about starting that engine until you've cleaned the cooling system and cleaned out the oil. We'd all hate to hear you blew your engine on the first start, which is entirely possible if these areas are dirty.

JON

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Jon

I have not had time or opportunity to do much on the car .. but spray some penetrating oil .. on the lug bolts that do not have tire/wheels ... on them.

Could you tell me .. will most 5 bolt Chrysler 15" wheels fit the 1953? Do you know what the cubic inch .. and other dimensions are of the motor [please]?

Thanks

Gary

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Jon

Thanks so much .. I will pickup the water pump right away ..

[color:"blue"] Do you have one of these 1953 Windsor engines? D

.. and believe it or not .. I am trying to go slow on soaking and cleaning the engine ..

One question . I have heard of guys filling the engine with fuel oil/oil mix and let it soak .. what do you think?

Thx for the 1000th time .

Gary

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You have a 264 cubic-inch flathead six. This was the largest six Chrysler put in the cars. It was also the big-block six. The small-block six was used in the Dodges and Plymouths. Both blocks were used in all kinds of industrial equipment.

The DeSoto 236, the Chrysler and DeSoto 251, and the Chrysler 264 are all the same engine, and they all had the same bore. Each engine size was determined by adding a quarter-inch of stroke.

In rebuilt condition, your 264 will get up and move nicely. It's not a hot rod, but it'll go better than most people think.

The water pump application reads correctly, but the one in the photo is not it. They may have just used a generic water pump for the photo while they actually have the correct one on the shelf for sale. You might want to hit the NAPA Auto Parts web site with the part number I gave you, and you'll get a better look at it.

A quick story. When I was a kid in the late-'70s/early-'80s, I admired a 1953 Chrysler Windor Deluze four-door sedan that drove around my home town with an elderly couple in it. I watched this car for years and always liked it. It was dark green. I bought my 1949 Dodge Coronet club coupe in 1983 right after my 17th birthday, and shortly after that, I met the owner of the '53 Chrysler. He and I hit it off. He had been the finance manager at a big Chrysler dealership in Los Angeles for 30 years and retired in 1974. He bought his car new and raised his kids in it. He didn't know anything about mechanical work, and I wound up doing all his repairs for years. I replaced a head gasket, rebuilt the carburetor, did a completely brake job, repaired the parkin brake, and lots of little things. It was a really nice old car. The owner and his wife are both deceased now, and his daughter sold the car, but I'll always remember it. Your car definitely brought back memories.

JON

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Guest De Soto Frank

Gary,

Regarding your wheel lug bolts: be aware that Chrysler products of this vintage have LEFT-HAND thread lugs on the driver's side of the car. Make sure you're trying to loosen them the correct way !

There should be a letter "L" or "R" stamped into the center of the lugbolt head (or end of the stud, if it has studs and nuts).

Occasionally, the brake drums from the driver's side of the car wind-up on the passenger-side, so always check the lug you're working on before you lean on the lug-wrench.

As for soaking the cylinders, Marvel Mystery Oil is very good (available @ Wal-Mart), also Automatic Tranny Fluid. Some guys like Kerosene.

My personal preference is MMO.

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again .. Jon -- a big Thank You ...

I spent this evening .. putting on wheels/tires .

If you noticed in the pic someone had taken off the front wheels/tires.

I put tires .. that I had around here on the front and back tire was flat so changed it ..

although I still need a wheel and 2 tires .. which I can get without much difficulty ..

I will try the Marvel Mystery oil .. I have used it on some old tractors I have.

Thanks . .again ..

I really appreciate all the advice ..

Gary

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Frank [or anyone else]:

My wife and I are staying at a friends place in Orlando for a week March 13 thru 20 ... and was just wondering if you knew of any "swap meets" or car shows in that vicinity?

I found a "cruise in" in the area .. but was wondering if you knew of something else ..

Thanks much

Gary

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The 53 Chrysler Windsor Newport I have appears to be one color. Do you think it was originally 2 colors [2 tone].

[(Jon,Frank,Baron and all):I haven't had a chance to do much with it yet .. it was missing the front wheels and tires and on tire was flat -- so I have been trying to get the wheels and tires on it so I can get it off the trailer]

Thanks

Gary

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Guest imported_BaronvonR

Soaking the cylinders is OK to do, but as Jon suggested to you...the radiator should be removed and the water distribution tube removed along with the lower freezeout plugs and really flush the engine out. This can be done while the cylinders are soaking. You also may want to consider removing the pan and thoroughly clean that out once you have soaked the cylinders so that no crud from the pan gets churned up into the engine....it will be alot of peace of mind to know that all of that is clean before you start the old gal up. Tune up...fresh gas, etc is always a good idea as well, but first things first....

BvR

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Gary:

My only car in 1989 was a '55 Chrysler Windsor sedan that was pretty weathered, but it ran great. I met a girl with a '55 DeSoto Firedome sedan in the same shape, and we started hanging around together. I introduced her to a friend of mine, and they got married about a year later, which was cool.

The bad news is that her family had been putting that DeSoto around for years but had never changed the oil. Her new husband did the right thing and changed the oil. It immediately spun a bearing, and I'm sure it was because the fresh detergent oil loosened the trash in the bottom of the engine and washed it up into the entire system.

Pulling the pan is a must, and it's not that hard. I'll walk you through it when you're ready.

JON

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I am going to post some images of the engines. Please note the oil on the engine is from me -- the plugs/plug sockets looked a little rusty so I decided to spray penetrating oil and pour oil over the engine --- just to let it soak a little ... probably shouldn't have . .but I thought it would make it easier to pull the plugs etc ..

The carb was off and the rag plugged the intake [makes me think the engine was in good running condition when "they" started working on it [?].

Getting wheels and tires on the car has been interesting .. finding out the if the tire is a little "wide" it won't fit up under there!!! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Here are some pics of the engine

Thanks! ..

Gary

engine2.JPG

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Hi guys .

Well I got the wheels and tires on [one more to change .. I had to put a 14" on instead of a 15 while I am getting a tube put in one tire down at the gas station.

Got all the plugs out -- wow -- were they tight !!! all the porcelain broke except one -- but the not one thread "spun out" .. and they went back in smoothly. [i poured oil mixed with fuel oil on the cylinders] ...

It was still cold and I was limited on time [had to get some wood in] so I am going to wait til it is warmer for the radiator and water flush - etc. Going to try to get it off the trailer and into the garage next.

HOPE I AM NOT POSTING TOO MUCH HERE ..

Gary

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Guest imported_BaronvonR

NEVER too much...as you go along we will help you with any and all questions...thats what this board is for:)

BvR

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I know I have said "thanks" a ton of times .. but "THANKS" again.

and I will NEED a lot of help - thru this ..

Was wondering about the tranny --- does it have a filter? Does it take the regular "tranny fluid"? Just drain it or take the pan off?

also .. when I do get to the point that I want to start it will I readily be able to find nuetral?

And one more thing .. the boss [my wife and I] are heading to Orlando a week from tomorrow .. is there any car places there that should visit? I love car museums etc . and car shows but didn't know if any were in the area or not.

We are just east of Grand Rapids, Michigan !!

Gary

PS -

Now on my next post I am going to show you guys the inside .. but please remember it IS AWFUL !! but ALL THE DASH - Gauges etc are there .. but the seats and lining a like a "rats nest" !! and the windows - door handles etc are in good shape ..

GED

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Guest imported_BaronvonR

Well you have to figure out which trans you have....the fluid torque, in which the transmission oil was seperate from the engine or the torqueflite which had the trans and engine oil combined...like 13 qts to fill it. IF you have the fluid torque like I have on my 51 then the transmission oil is seperate and takes 10W non detergent oil....a few pints. The torque unit is seperate and takes approx 8 quarts to fill...I use 10W in that as well..others use tractor or hydraulic oil...either way DO NOT use transmission fluid as it will destroy the seals.

As far as the interior goes it looks like you have the Highlander interior, which was an extra cost option. There are places that have all the fabric you need....but as it needs alot of TLC I would suggest that yuou tackle one project at a time...the mechanicals being the most important in my opinion. You need to be sure all is well with the running and stopping gear....then you can tackle the interior.....looks like you have the frames to build from and there are many companies out there for the fabric.....check Hemmings for some of them.

This will be a labor of love, but in the end will be one that will give you GREAT satisfaction and wonderful driving memories.

Here is a pix of my 1950 Imperial

post-32816-143137886283_thumb.jpg

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Guest imported_BaronvonR

It is supposed to have a clutch...it is what is called a "safety clutch"...meaning that you have to use it to shift from neutral into reverse, then reverse into low or high range...after that you dont use the clutch...just drive.

Here is a picture of the interior of my Imperial....just over the top of the horn button you can see a selector panel in black...is this what yours looks like??? Also you can see the clutch and the "safety clutch" writing on the pedal. If this is what yours looks like then you have the Prestomatic...a fluid torque drive and it is seperate from the engine.

BvR

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BVR

your 50' Imperal is awesome!! Thanks for the pic ..

(looks like I have tons of work !!) ...

Wonder if there is a site of original colors of the 50's Chryslers --- mine appears to be a one color -- black ... but I like the two tone ..

Could it be possible that that with A LOT of TLC -- that the engine and tranny will actually run? I know I have worked with old tractors .. and it is not unusual at all for an old engine that has set for years .. with a descent mag's or points .. etc ... they actually "start right up" ...

I can only - hope - dream .. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Gary

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BVR,

I guess since your Imperial is a 50 that it is a straight eight instead of a V8??

I recently read an article in Automobile magazine about a 51 Chrysler Saratoga that won some sort of Pan America race. They had it restored and ran it in a nostalgic race in the mountains of North Carolina. Anyway, interesting article. The Saratoga had 331 hemi V8 and Prestomatic trans.

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Guest De Soto Frank

Baron,

Very nice Imperial !

I'm curious about the tranny... I have a '50 New Yorker that has "regular" Fluid Drive with the M-6 transmission: no indicator "quadrant" on tope of the column. The selector functions just like the one in my '48 NYer with the M-5 tranny (like a 3-speed column shift with "first gear" blocked-out).

Did Chrysler offer the Fluid-Torque convertor with the Imperial in '50, or does yours have the "straight Fluid Coupling" ?

In all cases except for Powerflite automatic, the oil for the transmission itself should be SAE-10W motor oil. NOT ATF.

Since JD's car has a clutch pedal, we can be sure it does not have Powerflite.

JD, don't worry about having to apologize to US for your car's condition... it's a Newport hard-top, which is kind of rare... we've all owned (and some of us STILL own, and DRIVE <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />) ratty cars... it looks like someone started to unbolt the dash board...hope all the pieces are stil lwith the car...

Keep us posted !

<img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

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Guest De Soto Frank

Oh, that'll clean right-up ! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Gary,

You've definitely got an M-6 semi-auto as far as the transmission is concerned.

You could have one of two different type Fluid Couplings: the first type is plain-old "Fluid Drive" - the "one-to-one" fluid coupling used from 1939 through 1954. The second type is "Fluid-Torque Drive" which is a true torque-convertor. I would think that a Fluid-Torque car would have that name on the shift-quadrant...

Fluid-Torque came in two verions: one with its own self-contained sump and oil pump between the engine and the tranny; the second version had an "engine-fed" torque-convertor. The engine-fed variety indeed circulates engine-oil through the torque-convertor, and the combined crankcase/ fluid-coupling capacity is about 12 quarts.

I think Chrysler changed the gear shifter to include the indicator quadrant so that it might look more like Chrysler had a true "Automatic" transmission like Buick, Olds, Lincoln... the fact the "R" and "L" are right next to each other gives it away that the shifter is connected to the regular old semi-auto that Chrysler had been using since 1941. ( Actually, the semi-auto had been upgraded in 1946 (M-5 Hydraulically-Operated transmission); and again in 1949 (M-6 Hydraulically-Operated transmission). The function from the driver's seat is the same: using the clutch, the driver selects a driving range with the column lever, then releases the clutch (holding the car with the brakes). When it's time to go, the driver releases the brakes and depresses the accelerator - when the car sounds like it's reached its "shift-point", the driver releases the accelerator pedal, and waits for the transmission to "automatically" upshift. You'll know this has occurred by a "klunk" and a slight lurch as the car brakes slightly against engine compression. The driver then steps on the accelrator pedal and the car continues forward, now in high-gear.)

The Chrysler semi-automatics in all their forms are essentially four-speed manual transmissions that are divided into two forward driving ranges (plus "reverse"), with an "automatic upshift" between the two speeds in each range (Low and High). "Low Range" is in the same place on the column shift as "Second gear" for "three on the tree", and the transmission operates between first and second gears. "High Range" is where "Third gear" would be with a Three-speed, and the transmission operates between third and fourth gears.

If you can pick-up a MoToR's or Chilton's hard-bound shop manual that includes the years 1946 through 1954, they will have very good info on the Chrysler semi-auto.

By 1954, Chrysler Corp. was introducing their fully-automatic Powerflite 2-speed automatic tranny on Chrysler & De Soto, and expanded that to include Dodge and Plymouth by 1955. The Fluid Drive and semi-autos were retired after the 1954 model year.

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Frank/Jon

Again .. a big thank u for the info !!!

What would you suggest I do first to the tranny as far as "if it is by chance okay - what fluid/oil do I change or what? i.e., is there a drain plug on the transmission that I take out and drain the fluid -- or when I drain the crankcase oil will that empty the tranny oil too?

What priority precaution should I take with the tranny ?

also .. how do I know it is nuetral when I try to start it the first time [long way down the road yet but just wanted to know].

Thanks again ..

Gary

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Guest De Soto Frank

Gary,

If you've ever driven a car or pick-up with a stick-shift on the column, neutral is in the same place: lever pointing to "3 o'clock", and able to move towards the steering wheel rim or towards the dashboard. The indicator pointer on the quadrant should be lined-up with the "N"...

I would highly recommend getting a shop manual of some sort...this will answer MANY questions. Reprints are available from a number of sources, plus the old hard-bound MoToR's and Chilton's that turn up at swap-meets, flea markets, yard sales, etc.

There are three square-headed pipe-plugs on the passenger-side of the tranny: the lowest one is the drain plug. The middle one is the fill plug/ fill level.

The upper plug is a access plug - don't touch it.

The transmission is entirely separate from Fluid Coupling, as is the oil for either unit. If your car has the "self-contained" Fluid Torque coupling, there will be an intermediate "sump" with a drain plug, between the transmission and the engine. If it's an "engine-fed" convertor, there will be no intermediate sump or drain plug. To drain the convertor, one removes the access pan from the bottom of the bell housing, turns the engine over until the drain plug on the fluid coupling is at the bottom, remove the plug and let drain. Filling is done at the engine oil filler, adding five quarts at a time, then running the engine for about two minutes, shutting down, then adding more oil about two quarts at a time, and running the engine again, repeating the process until the engine oil-level is between the Add and Full marks. A dry crankcase and Fluid Torque takes about 12 quarts of oil: SAE-30 (better use Non-detergent for now).

If you don't want to get into the fluid torque drain and refill right away, just change the engine oil for the initial start-up; when you get ready to try to move the car, then you can worry about the rest of the fluid-drive/tranny.

Jon might have some specific suggestions as to where to find a shop manual.

Good luck !

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Guest imported_BaronvonR

OK

I have several questions to answer.....65 Coronet, the car does have a straight 8 engine...the last year for them.....what makes this one so unusual is that Chrysler built 1000 8's with hydraulic lifters...this car has one of them...the "whisper quiet" engine it was called....The reason that my car has the selector on the steering column is because it was a VERY late built car...Dec 7 1950...so by that time they had run out of 50 parts and this car actually has a very early '51 steering column, even though it is a '50...Chrysler seemed to like doing this....

As for your transmission, IF you have the prestomatic Transmission, like mine...the M6, then the access place for the oil for the torque is on the passenger side of the hump inside of the car...you will see two plates...its the one closest to the engine, the other is to access the wiring for the transmission...you have to rotate the torque unit until the plug comes into view at 12 o'clock...remove the plug and be sure not to drop it...it is rough trying to get it back....stuff a rag around hole....once removed turn to 6 o'clock position to drain...retuen to 12 o'clock position to refill...takes about 8 quarts of 10W non detergent oil or hydaulic oil....right now work on getting the engine running fine , then do the transmission....you may want to fill it with ATF to clean it out ...drive it around for 2 mins or so, redrain and then fill with oil...DO NOT run ATF in there...only use it to clean it out

BvR

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