Spoke wheel question

We took our wheel of the Hupmobile. What are the things called that hold it on the car. When we went to take them off we saw one was partly broke, two were missing. No wonder hubby said some thing was wrong with the wheel or the hub. I need to find some and don't know what they are called.

On his log truck it's a wheel wedge, is that it?

Thanks

Debby

here is a picture of it.

If your Hupp has wood-spoked wheels where the tire & rim come off, and the spokes stay on the car, these are known as "demountable" rims.

The four to six "ears" that hold the rim firmly in place are known as "Lugs". With some rim designs, the lugs are part of the rim; with other designs (like big trucks) the lugs are separate pieces, and in truck circles are known as "wheel wedges".

If you have an intact lug/wedge, try taking it down to a local truck shop and see if they can match it up...

Posting pics of the lug, rim, and wheel might generate more answers here...hopefully, your Hupp shares these parts with more common cars !

Good luck !

Here is a picture of the wheel;

It is separate from the tire.

Here it is with out tire

Okay,

That's a "Demountable" rim alright...

At this point, I have to defer to the Nickel-Era guys who are familiar with these rims/wheels...

Few (if any) auto manufacturers made their own rims; they bought them from suppliers such as Firestone, Kelsey-Hayes, and others...

Your "lugs"(some folks might call them "clamps") might be a common style.

Worst-case scenario, you might be able to get a foundry to cast some, using a decent exmaple for the pattern...

Somebody who hangs-out here must know of some sources, though...?

Unfortunately there are about a zillion different types, sizes and designs of these wheel wedges. Might be easy to find or might be a challenge.

Hi Debby,

From the looks of your photo, I believe that these lugs could most economically be made by machining out of cold rolled steel.

Do you only need three?

Bill Boudway

gnbboudway@msn.com

Debbie, are you in the Hershey area? I have two coke crates full of these lugs and some bolts and nuts. Like restorer said, I have had people move the whole pile and not find one they need, next person can find what they want on top! prices: most $1 afew $3 each that have nuts built on the lug. Karl

No, We live in NY but have gone down to Hershey. Not sure if we are going to spring Carilse or not. If we do can I contact you to check it out. We might go to Florida end of Feb. if then I could check it out. I'll let you know if we go.

Just thought I would add a picture of the spokes now. Check picture.

Debby

Your "clamp" demountable rim for the use of (as my GM parts book calls them) are relatively easy to find. The usual dificulty is finding ones that match your sample or the original ones that came with your car. As long as they are the ones that are not fastened to the rim almost any one will work. At one time I had four different kinds on my daily driver. Most of them are just cast iron and they break quite easily. I now have a complete set (16) of the originals for my car (made by Jaxon [the name is right on the clamp]) and have about 30 spares. If you cannot find any email me with the dimensions and how many you need and if mine are the same size I will send you some.

I found a name on one of them Kelsey 310 on the one side and the pat ??09 on the other side. The side where the nut goes. Any body heard of these?

Thanks

We had to take apart all four wheels to find two that we could read.

Sent you a private email..please answer, thanks! It is that "thing" flashing one your screen!

It seems like your car has Kelsey rims then...don't know when they hooked-up with Hayes, but as Kelsey-Hayes, they made wheels for years (into the '50s at least) and also power brake boosters; Chrysler Corp. was one of their customers.

The "310" is probably the rim model or part number.

Wonder if Coker Tire has any info on rims/lugs ?

BTW, saw your pic of the cleaned rim/spokes...most cars of this vintage had painted spokes... lots of folks like to put a clear finish on them to show-off the beauty of the wood...in any event, they need to be sealed against moisture/drying.

Good luck !

Debby, If your not traveling down the Route 81 corridor this winter, and you want to send one to me, I would be glad to look at what I have that may work. send me an e-mail for an address , Karl

I have a Wheels, Rims, and Parts Catalog from Feb. 1928. For a 1927 Hupmobile six cyl. it lists Kelsey-Hayes No. 509 Balloon rim, 20 x 4", part #8340 (galvenized) or part #10023 (black). For the 8340, the clamp # is C-62, Bolt # B-384, and Nut # N-2. For the 10023, Clamp # C-118, Bolt #B-388, and Nut # N-25. Interestingly, for the 1924 Hupmobile with balloon equipped tires it lists Kelsey-Hayes No. 310 rim, 21 x 4". By the way, the 509 rims sold for $3.00 and the 310 rims for $3.25 in 1928. The clamps and bolts were 10 cents each. The wood spoke wheels including the hub were $20.50 each.

Les Hoffmann

1918 Dodge Brothers touring

Thanks Les!

I found some thing different, in my Hupmobile Instruction manual, 6 cylinder, series A, Second edition, made by Griswold Press inc, Detroit Dec 1925.

On page 59 it says tire size Front 30" x 5.25" 30 lbs. and Rear 30" x 5.25 30 lbs.

I thought this was weird! Any body heard of this?

Is this the right manual for my car?

Debby,

I think your Hupp manual is referring to tire size, which used to be described by the outside dimensions of the tire, as mounted on the rim and inflated... they were not necessarily described by rim-size as they are today...

The best example I can think of off the top of my head is with truck tires:

Take a 6.00 x 20 truck tire (common from the late '20s through the 1950's): the "old sizing" referred to this same tire as a "32 x 6"; I've found tires marked with both sizes...

The "rim-sizing" of tires became common around 1929-'30...

Somebody else might be able to explain this better...

Are all of the rims from your Hupp the same size and style?

For example on a 32 x 6 tire the 6 refers to the actual distance from the bead of the tire to the tread. Thus a 32 x 6 would equal 32 minus 2x6 or 20" rim size. A 33x5 would indicate a 23" rim and so forth.

Yes so far they are all the same size and style. One more to take apart.

Thanks on tell me about the size, it was confusung as the tire size on the tires say 5.5 x 20 and the book has the other size 30 x 5.25

Ever heard of tires like this??

F.U.N.S.A. (in bold letters and big about 3 inches)

Direccion Tecnica (in small print under it)

Fabricado POR (on other side of tire)

Thanks for all your help

Oh - you've got furrin' tars on yer car...

For while, back in the '70s I think, one of the sources for "antique" size tires like yours was foreign countries...

I seem to remember INSA Premier tires for the Model A Ford (4.50 x 21 and 4.75 x 19 - those are rim-sizes, by the way)...they had a funky tread design too...

They sold for about half the price of American antique tires like Firestone.

"Fabricado POR" - Made in Portugal ?

Your Hupp book just uses the "old" way of tire sizing, which began to be phased-out after the advent of "balloon tires" (low-pressure) around 1925...

Generally the old sizing system puts the big number first ( 30 x 5.25). When the big-number comes second (5.50 x 20), it usually refers to the rim diameter.

Hope a company makes tires here. LOL

I sort of wondered if they were not foreign

We are going to try these. They are not cracked or worn but we just don't know how old they are. When we take them off the rim that will tell us more.

We have checked them closly for any weather checking but none is visible from the out side. We will have to try them and see. We have all back roads here and no fast roads for a ways 28 miles or more so we sould be able to try them out a little with out much of a problem. We have friends or family all 28 miles so we won't have to walk! LOL

Now I get it on the size. LOL

It's 20 in not the 30 like I was wondering about. Thanks Frank!

Just, keep her under 20 mph Debby. It'll stay together that way. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Wayne

Ditto on the speed...you don't want one of those artillery wheels coming apart "at speed"...slow and steady during your shake-down...have somebody follow along and look for any wheel-wobble...

Check Coker Tire (www.coker.com) and Universal Tire websites...you'll get an idea of what's available...

(Coker suggests a 5.25x20 or 5.50x20 tire for your '26 Hupp.)

Try to make sure you're getting a four or six-ply car tire and not a 10-ply truck tire ! Makes a huge difference in the ride !

Slow and steady!! Got it:):)

We had my son follow Walter (1938 Chrysler) first and second time out just incase. We will have him follow Humphrey too.

Jim says he will take the wheels all the way apart and check them, if any signs of weather we will get new ones.

I copyed all the numbers Les gave me so I can check on those and now I have to get the rims painted.

I am hoping to the the last one apart this weekend.

I still have the inside to do too.