Good news (L67) Bad news (Totalled 98 Riviera)

Wife front end totalled her 98 Riviera, bruised knee but she's ok, looks like I'm getting the 65,000 mile car back for only $442 salvage value, my 270k 1988 Reatta has been dead out back for a year, I guess I can't resist swapping in that SC L67 now. Biggest problem will be making the computer work with the VIC, maybe I can take the whole dashboard/electronics out of my donor Rivi and swap it in as well? Let the fun begin, oh, my 68 C10 truck is also getting power leather heated bucket seats!

Read my post a few lines down this page about the L67. And search for an older post called "supercharging, revisited"

It's not nearly as easy as you would think. Ask Padgett and Greg Ross about it too

Oh yeah, I am aware it's not going to be easy, if I wanted easy I wouldn't have Ole Tater sitting around out back, but he's been with me since 1991@72,000 miles, kind of hard to let him go. Easy would be to drop in another era 3800, but I can afford to go the extra work with an $442 engine/tranny that I know history of. I have reviewed past posts, I have book mark for http://www.l67swap.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1396 good step by step procedures done by www.gmtuners.com, this is going to take a while to do, but what are hobbies for.

Aye. I see you've found that post. Ryan of GMtuners is going to do the swap to our '90 convertible. We shouldn't lose instrumentation

Yeah, GMTuners is now in my home town of Ft Wayne IN, figures now that I'm way down south eh? Has anyone ever talked about swapping the complete front suspension/cradle? I will have a complete, although front-end damged Riviera to scavenge from. I have also always had a love/hate relation with the touch screen, I can picture the dash from the Rivy in there as well, although that would probably be a lot harder than the engine. But it would be one of a kind

I always thought it would be fun to graft a mid 1950's Buick front clip and tail lights onto a Reatta as well, kind of like those 1950 Ford/90's T bird kits.

Well if going into an 88, I think I already have the data stream for that.

Suspect you are going to use the "E" transmission (4T65E ?) from the Riv but hopefully it did not have ABS. Did the '94 Park Avenue have the same (analog) EGR as the 97 L-67 ? If so the '94 PA L-67 ECM and PROM would be the place to start.

If possible try to extract the entire engine/trans to ECM wiring harness from the Riv - you will need it.

>>... maybe I can take the whole dashboard/electronics out of my donor Rivi and swap it in as well? ...<<

So:

You would have to dump the CRT and dash electronics, but you will also -- perhaps more significantly -- face a wiring 'nightmare' in getting all the body components hooked-up and working well.

Again, I think the best solution could be having an 'interface' made for matching the later ECM to the Reatta BCM... this seems to mean using a laptop or something (microprocessor unit?) and writing some sort of software that translates (or emulates?) one of the systems to the other (I suppose the physical cables to interface these three devices would be a relatively easy part of the whole deal).

It appears to be a job for an automotive computer specialist, obviously.

It would be cool if we could all 'chip-in' and have this work done (split the engineering and manufacturing costs).

Then again if there were enough people who would 'buy' these systems, it might be worth it for someone to 'fund' the whole bill and then sell them to the individual parties....

Don't know what F-14 has for detail from GM Tuners but I suspect this is based around reprogramming the OBD1 PROM, mainly modifying the tables for Fuel/Air. There needs to be a trigger for the waste gate/ by-pass valve in the supercharger and that's about it. Think you guys are barking up the wrong stump/ sniffin' too much of that exhaust from tired old 3.8Ls'-If Padgett can get the '94 Ultra ECM to integrate, I think that is the most sensible compromise/ Series I Engine management/ Tranny upgrade/ or/and able to use the Series II Engine with late version (EGR)OBD1 Sensors.

(and I'll renew the offer Padgett, you can have BB there in Fla for a winter if you want her!)

The Cradle Swap (is the '98 Riv still an "E" Body) is a great plan. You'll want to do Engine/ Tranny mounting on the Sub-frame out of the car regardless. Much safer and you actually get to see what you're doing. Not certain about location of motor mounts on the Series II Engine but would assume it's similar/ same as the 3800 Series I, this allows you to at least start with one fixed reference for placing the new Engine Tranny on the '88 Sub-frame.

I contemplated a '91 Wiring harness at one time, then looked at the size of the front end electrical harness connector at the firewall. Imagining the number of conductors in there to be traced, rerouted and spliced turned me off that option. If going to a latter tranny and replacing the ECM it might be worth considering. I would definitely not consider a dash transplant, if you want a 90-91 dash then sell that '88 and pick up the replacement later model body.

Following from GMTuners:

Charles, I need to get back over to the Reatta forums and update those threads.

Here is what I came up with on the Reatta swap I did. The speedo, odometer, and oil pressure gauges worked, that's about it. My efforts to reprogram the 94-95 3800SC PCM to communicate effectively with the 89 Reatta BCM have hit a brick wall due to missing program information. Therefore, the DIC flipped out every time you turned the key on and warned of massive trouble codes and communication errors with the ECM (because it wasn't there). The heater and radio still worked, but there is no way to turn on the A/C without wiring in an external toggle switch (the Reatta and Riviera HVAC systems from 1988-1993 send the A/C on command single to the engine computer via the serial data bus ONLY. In 1994-95, this was moved to an external wire).

Until I can obtain the information I need, all we have are the following options...

1) Install a L67 and use the existing Reatta ECM, wiring, and transmission. The bad thing about doing this is the stock Reatta transmission will need to have a performance rebuild done to it to be able to handle the SC engine. Furthermore, the Reatta ECM won't be able to properly recognize the larger breathing ability of the L67, so WOT/boost tuning is going to be rough at best. I am confident I can reprogram the stock Reatta ECM to run the engine just fine at max boost, the problems you might encounter will be at heavy loads where max boost hasn't been reached. The fuel delivery here will probably not be correct so it won't be perfect. I am sure I can set it up so it runs rich enough that there is no danger of engine damage, but I doubt I will be able to keep it from running too rich.

2) Install a L67, 4T60-E, 91-93 Riviera/Reatta PCM, IPC, BCM, HVAC, etc. This is probably the best option we have right now, although there will still be an issue with this computer recognizing the increased breathing rate of the L67...although it shouldn't be as bad as the older Reatta ECM scenario.

3) Install a L67 using a newer computer and trans. Unfortuneately we already know how well the BCM and IPC is going to work out here.

The newer Rivi's used the Aurora platform. I like those Rivi's cuz they're big, fast, luxurious boats. Kinda got turned off when I saw one at about 40 mph go through an intersection, and saw all the wallow. I swore it bottomed out

We're taking the option II, and using a 1991 Reatta ECM. Since we're using a '90 Reatta, we predict that there should be few problems. And, it'll register the airflow. Ryan of GMtuners said this was the biggest problem with using an 88-89 ECM.

From the GM Tuners Notes above;

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I am sure I can set it up so it runs rich enough that there is no danger of engine damage, but I doubt I will be able to keep it from running too rich </div></div>

I've already done Knock Damage (broke two Pistons) so this is a significant risk. Slobbering a bit rich at WOT is no big deal as long as the mixture is rich enough under load? Doesn't sound like it's exactly guaranteed!!!

What I notice with BB (I disconnect the Battery while I'm away months at a time) Once I starty driving her, after 2-3 days I start seeing some knock counts and corresponding timing retard. This does not happen for the first day or so while shes' in heavy Block Learn Mode?

Has Ryan mentioned how he triggeres/ manages the bypass valve in the S/C?

Naw, ryan hasn't mentioned a bypass valve.

Between the compressor and the intake plenum is a solinoid actuated butterfly valve that reduces pressure by allowing recirculation. This is the only means of reducing "Boost" and I would assume has to be an important part of the equation.

Sorry, I'm just a bit dubious about what can actually be achieved by these guys, they don't know the car or the ECM/ BCM. Several years ago while looking at, say the GP Site, I think it was Ryan who was running that Site and generating business for himself. I asked a few questions and never got any form of replies-not terribly impressed at the time! And have not been back since!

a) My problem is a lack of free time (and space - to keep BB here I'd have to garage it which means one of mine would sit out. Also Lockheed keeps me extremely busy (just had a year averaging 50 hour weeks which was like a vacation compared to before). Then add honeydoos and trying to make my Corvair idle and keeping up a number of web sites and things get busy.

Is really a job for a 20 year old without a life anyway.

Have you looked at all of the information in ALDLSTUFF.ZIP, contains most of the 5B data streams.

c) am willing to help and/or advise but just not willing to do it alone.