what's the best way to preserve an original car

I recently purchased a 1959 chrysler wagon that is very original, never left out of the garage. It's been sitting on blocks in a garage for the last 12+ years and signs of rust are starting to show, especially on the hubs and a place on the firewall behind the master cyclinder. I've heard it's best not to change anything on an original car, how can I stop the rust and keep the car original at the same time? Would it be worth carrying it to a professional restorer for a good cleaning, detailing or just enjoy it as it is? It only has 45,250 miles, runs fine, chrome is perfect, interior has no rips, but the vinyl is rolling up on the cargo area and back of the back seat. any advice is appreciated. Thanks

What you've got there is probably what is known as a "survivor." Nearly all original and well-maintained. If it has original paint and few parts have been replaced, you got good advice to proceed with caution with any repairs. Why not "detail" it yourself? The rust behind the MC might mean a brake fluid leak which would need attention. That stuff is corrosive (not to mention the safety factor). Surface discoloration can usually be removed with a good cleaner and some patient buffing. There are also products on the market to restore rusting unpainted surfaces (such as wheel hubs), and stop further rust. I'd leave it up to an expert to tell you which ones will work best and preserve an original look. Good luck. It would be nice to see a picture if you can post one.

thanks, I'm trying to get the brakes working properly now.

Nice looking car! Looking forward to updates on this. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Now that really is a NICE looking car. I would try to keep it as original as possibe (but that's my opinion). What engine and options does it have? To tell you the truth, I prefer the "sedan" or "post" type wagons over the "hardtop" style (such as the NY'er wagon). The hardtop style can still look gorgeous but I just think the post style is what a wagon should actually be (probably has better stuctural integrity and fewer squeeks/ rattles too!).

It has the 383, factory a/c, p/s, pb, electric rear window, intermittent wiper(foot control), special radio, fold down rear seat, everything works fine except for the brakes. I just ordered a new master cyclinder that should solve that problem. It has factory undercoating, and the only rust I've found is where the master cyclinder has leaked on the firewall. Truly an amazing original car. Not a tear anywhere in the interior, but the vinyl is seperating from the bottom of the back seat.

I believe most car shows have a "preservation" class for unrestored originals, and it sure looks like your Chrysler would qualify. You might want to research the clubs to find out how to detail your vehicle to show in that class.

Thanks, I'll check. Most of the local shows have so many different classes you have to really check how they're categorized before registering. I'll have to check at Charlotte in the spring

"Archival" is another term I've heard for a preserved original. I'm certainly no expert on show classes. I think I've got the "driven" designation figured out, though! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> In reference to your original question about "the best way to preserve an original car," I couldn't think of anyone who would be able to give you a better answer, including all the nit-picking details, quite so thoroughly as someone familiar with the judging process.

Ok. Master cyclinder was the problem with the brakes. Now I have breaks. Haven't gotten tags yet so I only drove around the yard outside my shop. they squeaked a little and wanted to seize up, but backing up slow and pulling forward seemed to help alot. Since these cars ran on leaded gas, should I be adding a lead substitute to the fuel. I had a 36 chevy that I was told needed the lead. Oh yea, any way to keep the trans from shifting so hard into gear? or will I just have to idle it down? The auto- choke works, and it shifts hard after the choke is off. Maybe I'm not use to it and need practice. Thanks

GREAT "ORIGIONAL" CAR.... I would change all fluids...Engine oil,transmission fluid,rear end lube...everything!!! This could cure that transmission problem!!! Internal rubber parts + clutches could be dried out.... New Fluid might help out this problem... How about replaceing the vacuum shift modulator??? It controls shifts! and shift harshness...

re: Brakes...I would re-build or replace all the wheel cylinders + rubber brake hoses!!! After all these years they can't be in that good a condition...could be why your bakes drag...corroded wheel cylinders could keep break shoes fron properly releasing from drums...so they drag!!!

By the way...Keep that old Master Cylinder as it is "Origional" and has proper date codes-casting numbers etc... It can be re-built!!! I would want it back on the car!!!

Get a box...+++ Don't throw ANYTHING AWAY!!!

GOOD LUCK!!!

As far as lead additives, most Chrysler products had hardened valve inserts so you do not need to add it. Most GM and Ford products went the cheap way and have none, so you must add with those cars. Remember you have an extremely well engineered car there and it will last you a good long while if you take care of It. I have a 50 Imperial and a 51 De Soto and run regular gas in both with no problems.

BvR

Thanks for the replys. I talked with the second owner and the master cyclinder has been replaced before and the original one was kept by whoever did the work. I checked all the rubber brake lines and they're not dry rotted or cracked, fluid flows freely. Trans fluid looks new. Where is the vaccuum shift modulator? and where can I get a new one? (I'm not a mechanic, just a tinkerer) Also were orange autolite wires around in 59? Second owner said he only drove the car a few times and stored it. Didn't replace anything except master cyclinder and the muffler. Also found inspection certificates in the glove box dating back to 1963 and continuing til 1992. All years are not there but mileage is on all of them.

I don't think you transmission has any vacuum controls. They are a Ford & Chevy thing.. Of cource I may be wrong. i'm sure someone here will correct me if I am!

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!

<img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

i couldn't find any vaccuum hoses running to the trans. I took it out for a much needed wash today and the trans shifted much better. only drove about 6 miles to Mom's house to use her water. Really have to adjust the hand brake. Why is there no park in the trans? The brakes loosened up and worked good, but I think there may still be some air in the lines, I had to pump them some. I'll try to get some more work done this week and post some pics. Thanks

There is no vacuum modulator for the trans. Shifts are contoled by a throttle cable (or maybe lever in a car from that vintage). Also, no park position on torqueflite trans (I guess you're talking about a torqueflite). Actually there never was one even on the later year models. In the pushbutton years, there was a separtate EMERGENCY brake that acted on the driveshaft. You set the trans in neutral and then apply the mechanical brake. There was actually a drum and brake shoes attached to the driveshaft to keep the car from moving.

yea, I found the brake drum on the drive shaft and tightened the cable. It's been raining here and I didn't get a chance to try it out. Hopefully, it'll stay dry a few days and I can put a few more miles on it to get the kinks worked out. I tried polishing the chrome or I guess stainless and can't believe the small scratches I'm finding. I'm looking for a ways to buff those out. The car really looks a lot nicer since it was washed. I'll try to post more pics as weather allows. Thanks

Wow ! This buggy is loaded !

Okay, first thing: keep it out of the SUN, as much as possible ! Sunlight (UV) will KILL the paint, chrome, and interior. PERIOD. I watched a nice 32,000 mile "survivor" '61 Plymouth go down-hill fast after it left its nice original owner's garage...unfortunately, it was my own car during its rapid decline!

Put it away in a nice dark, cool, dry garage when you're done playing with it. Carry a good sun-shade to put in the windshield and consider getting some of those roll-up sun-shades that stick to the windows with suction cups, if the car is going to be outside much. UV window-tint might also be a worthwhile investment.

Brakes: plan on replacing more than the master cylinder...brakes age, no matter what, and it's not worth it (in my experience) to trust 40 year-old brakes. Replace all the steel lines (they rust from the inside out), flex hoses, and wheel cylinders, as well as the master cylinder...once that's done, you can drive with much more confidence. This car must weight at lesat 4,500 lbs...you NEED good, reliable brakes!

The tranny is a Torqueflite if it has six buttons, Powerflite if it has five buttons. They did not get an internal parking pawl until about 1964.

Engine: you have the rare RB-383....this is an "underbored" 413...it is NOT the common B-383 used in De Soto, Dodge, and Plymouth from 1959 into the 1970's...don't let parts guys try to tell you otherwise ! This engine was used in the Chrysler Windsor and Saratoga only, '59 & '60 only. It shares most parts with the 413, except for pistons and rings. I just went through a nightmarish rebuild on the RB-383 from my '60 Windsor; drop me an e-mail if you want details...

Good luck with it; sure looks like a beauty !

I must agree with Frank...Entire brake system should be NEW!!! Replace the entire brake system; lines and all!!! (most people do not want to do this) Just because they look good does not mean they ARE good!!! They do in fact rust-out from the inside!!! Brake fluid is hygroscopic...this means it sucks water out of the air!!! Water % greater than 3% in the system causes rust + corrosion!!!

About three years ago a friend of mine did a "cosmetic restoration" on a great origional 1960 Corvette. He replaced the wheel cylinders,master cylinder,three hoses + fluid...BUT NOT the lines!!! Returning home from a car show one Sat. he tried to stop fast behind an SUV... He hit the brakes hard and heard a POP and his foot went to the floor!!! NO BRAKES!!! (single master cylinder!) He reached for the parking brake handle on the left side of the under-dash...BUT it was too late!!! He rammed the SUV!!! The entire front end was smashed to bits...front end,Fenders,hood,Rad,etc... $15000.Damage!!!

What had happened??? The main brake line to the master cylinder had split open about 1 inch along it's Bundy weld seam !!! The lines had rusted-out from the inside!!!

This origional car will never be quite the same!!! It now has a new aftermarket reproduction front-end...It is now not worth as much as before the accident!!!

New Pre-Bent reproduction brake lines would have cost about $250. + installation!!!

I know where I would rather spend my money!!!

Not on a new "Front End!!!"

As my Dad always says...It does not matter if a car runs or not...as long as it Stops!!!

The brakes are the most important system on any car...Spend your money wisely there first!!!

Frank ALWAYS gives the best advice !!!

Ok brakes lines, who has them correct for this car? Will I have to fab my own? I 've seen the wheel cyclinders on e-vilbay, and Andy Bernbaum has a few pieces, but who else carries these parts? The windows are factory tinted, but I still keep the car in a dark garage. I only plan on going to a few local shows and don't plan on leaving it in the sun. This car even has factory seat belts, and a foot pedal for the wipers. Trans only has 5 buttons, reverse, neutral, Drive, then 1 & 2. Glad to hear from someone who knows something about this era car. I know there can't be many cars like this left out there. Maybe I'll have it ready for Wiliamsburg this summer. Thanks

good luck with the wagon. heed the advice about the brakes. i, too, have a survivor like yours so all the advice you are getting is of use to me. my car is a 1954 windsor convertible with everything original including the conv. top. i did a complete brake job but now these posts have me worried because i did not change the steel lines.i guess i will do that this spring but i will bet that pre-formed lines are not available for my car.they will be very difficult to fabricate. you can generally find a source for most parts through hemmings, but shop around for a good price. it is always nice to see people who want to keep these cars original,in my opinion that is the way to go. dfennis

bp3, I live in Virginia. When you were mentioning the Williamsburg show this summer, did you mean Williamsburg, VA?? If so, please let me know Williamsburg is only about 2 1/2 hours from me and if you go I'd love to see the car. Keep me informed.

The show is in Williamsburg VA this year.....the week of July 10th

BvR

I have read that the Chrysler show will be held in Williamsburg, but haven't got any info on registration or show times. I just recieved info that the all Mopar show is July 9th at Carlisle. Pa. Hope the 2 shows don't happen at the same time. I'll try to keep posting more info.

That sounds good to me! Williamsburg is near the beach and all that should be a lot of fun. One thing to keep in mind though is that the prices for hotels and motels can be very high in that area during the peak summer beach and vacation season. Hopefully the club will have all of that informataion. I'm not a member, I've been thinking about joining.

thanks Baron and bp3!