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52 Windsor--no spark!


bebop138

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Well guys I thought it would be running today, no such luck. I had mentioned that the wiring was bad and I had replaced all the wiring on the coil bracket and the wires going to the tranny. I also replaced the coil,plugs,plug wires,point,condenser. I pulled the coil wire from the dist. cap, turned it over no spark. I was careful with the wiring but the previous owner had spray painted the engine compartment and found it convenient to spray all the wiring too, so everything is blue!!The wire block on the coil bracket has ign-bat-sol-int and it also looks like a micro switch, could the problem be there. To make sure I did`nt make a mistake, where do these wires on this terminal block go? If the problem isn`t there any suggestions on why there is no spark.

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It could be the infamous "braided wire" at the base of the distributor, if your distributor has it, and I think it does. That little bugger has caused numerous no-spark headaches, including one on the '47 D24. It's just touchy as heck. Be sure it has a good connection, then just pray. I believe replacements are very scarce, but it seems to often be the connection rather than the wire (more like a miniature cable).

If you have a shop manual, you can check the wiring diagram to make sure everything is going where it should. Can you maybe scrape off the paint or use solvent in a spot on each wire to check the color? That could help you identify them. You're not alone on this "no-spark" thing. It seems like amost everyone has that problem with these engines right about the time they're ready to start 'er up. It's always solvable with a little patience and tinkering. Good luck!

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The initial problem to fix is there is no spark coming from the coil. You turn it over and there is no spark to ground. No spark to distributor from coil! Unless I am thinking wrong no spark to dist. means the dist. won`t work--does this wire have anything to do with the coil not showing spark?? Is it inside the dist. cap??Is it the small wire going to the points??

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I didn't mean to get you side-tracked. Maybe the wiring is different on the newer distributor, but the wire I'm talking about is hard to miss if you have it because it's a small flat braided wire with no insulation rather than a round wire.

Did you change out the coil or is it the one that came with the engine? Sometimes even a new coil can be bad. If you have a known good coil, swapping it in takes only a few minutes and you'll be able to eliminate the coil as the problem. These coils do go bad...

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Lee:

Hook the battery directly to the coil, and see if you get spark. Just run some jumper wires with alligator clips from the battery to the coil with the proper polarity. This will eliminate the rest of the car's wiring.

Note also there is one wire the whole ignition system depends on -- the one from the ignition switch in the dash. One wire runs from the back of the ignition switch through a metal tube through the firewall, and it connects to a terminatl on the horn/headlight relay, which is a little box on the firewall near the voltage regulator. Then a wire runs from there into the wiring loom and pops out at the hot side of the coil. The ground side of the coil runs down to the base of the distributor where the points make and break the ground.

One suggestion is to cut the wire that comes through the tube from the iginition switch, and splice a good wire directly from that wire to the coil. This will elimiate a possible broken wire in the loom between the headlight relay and the coil.

Once the car is running with the jumper wires directly from the battery, you'll be able to disconnect them and wiggle other wires to see where your problem is.

The truth about all these cars is that they all need to be rewires, but it's expensive, and we're all pieceing cars together that in reality are trying to burn to the ground.

JON

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Jon, Good to hear from you!! So plus side of battery to plus side of the coil, then minus side of the battery to minus side of the coil with the jumper wires??The wire from the ignition goes to the plus side of the coil- the one coming out of the firewall?? So far this has been done and no go----having a buddy coming over in a few minutes to turn it over in the direct hook up to see if the coil is producing spark. Get back to you later this evening on progress.

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Sorry to interupt, but the comment Jon made about pieceing old cars together brings to mind something I often thought about my 67 Chrysler. It's like I'm trying to resurrect the dead. To put it in the cars perspective...."I gave someone 20 years and 150,000 miles of faithful service! I thought I was laid to rest in the early 80's and was finished working! NOW you expect me to get up and do it all over AGAIN!"

The cars original owners (husband and then wife) have both passed away, I guess the car thought it had passed away too.

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I just got through this same problem, and what seemed to do it for me was getting the whole system primed. I don't know a lot about electricity, or automotive ignitions, and I'm not sure why this worked, but one of the guys here on the forum suggested I try it, and it worked like a charm.

With the key in the on (not start) position, and the distributor cap off, insert a non-conductive item (I used half of a clothespin) between the points and open and close the points several times at a rapid rate. Eventually you will see a spark. Do that a couple more times, button her back up and give it a spin.

And that braided wire that everyone is mentioning, change that.

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And that braided wire that everyone is mentioning, change that.</div></div>

Thanks for the "priming" tip. Never heard of that one, but glad to have another option to try. I think I was "everyone" talking about the braided wire on this thread. Where did you find a replacement?

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Well, I cleaned up the wire and put new ends on it and shrinked wrapped it---will try it out tommorow------but I have another problem, when I tried to take out the dist. it would`nt come out!!!! I have had it out a few times as this problem has progressed and have`nt had a problem?? So I put it back in an tightened it down and turned it over a few times, the rotor turned--stopped it, then it came out fine---got me??? Now I am afraid to put it back in----any ideas on what happened, I don`t what to damage anything.

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Sounds like a good idea bigdaddykarl. It seems that they expected that wire to carry a lot of current, using a miniature battery cable like that. I suppose you used heavy gauge round wire to replace it? I've never heard of anyone finding a "stock" replacement for that flat braided wire, and like you say, it causes so much trouble that everybody's talking about it.

Funny thing about these ignition systems. I've heard more people say that they get the old bucket going first try when it's never been touched, then as soon as they've put in some nice new points, condenser, coil, etc.--no spark! Maybe that's what the "priming" technique is all about. Once it gets spark, it rarely loses it until you try to "improve" something. As long as the D24 keeps working, I'm recommending "don't touch it!"

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I did use a round wire, I believe it was 16 gauge stranded, with a couple of crimped-on eye connectors and a double layer of shrinkwrap so that it wouldn't ground out anywhere else. I don't think stray sparks in a distributor are a good idea! She's running like a top now. (well, except for my transmission woes)

I saw a NOS braided wire up on eBay a few months ago, and if I recall correctly, it went for a hefty sum.

And like I said earlier, I have no idea how it worked, but that priming technique (as suggested by someone here on this forum) worked well. The first couple of actions, I had no spark, then the spark gradually grew and became quite strong. That's when I buttoned her up and she's been great ever since.

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Hip-Hip-Horray-------------IT RUNS after a 10 year nap. Timing is set, carb adjusted--rattles a little, starts hard-----but it runs. It was one of those new parts that was bad---six buck condenser---oh well!!! Thanks all for the input. Hope to have it running well and looking good by spring. Updates will come along as things progress----------Thanks again!!

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All right!!! Congratulations. Now, just don't touch that ignition system again as long as it works. Well, maybe plugs and points. Condensers are one of those items that seem to often be built faulty. Sometimes it's best to just leave it if it works. Same with coils. I've heard more people put in new coils and lose the spark, only to find out the new coil was no good.

But all that's moot when you hear it run! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

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Congratulations, Lee! I'm looking forward to hearing about your first drive now that its running.

Don't worry about not being able to get the distributor out. The crankshift misses the distributor shaft by a fraction of an inch, and if the crank is in just the right place, it won't let you pull the distributor out. I pulled my hair out figuring that one out one time. You did the right thing by just bumping the starter enough that the crank moves out of the way.

JON

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One funny thing happened when it started up--it smoked REAL bad, it looked like I was spraying for skeeters. Then I remembered that I had filled all the cylinders with tranny fluid months before. When I did this some probably leaked down thru a couple of open exhaust valves and into the muffler. I tried to let it run and burn off, this annoyed the neighbors, so today I ordered a new muffler, put it on tomorrow. I let it run without the muffler and it does`nt burn one drop of oil--oil pressure is at 45lbs--temp runs cool and the generator is charging---so far so good. It really won`t be road worthy till spring-- to much to do to it to get it ready, the snow will fly before it`s ready, so in the garage for the final stuff over the winter----hey Packard Guy we live in Minnesota too!!!! Ya you betcha!!!

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Ya, here in Minnesnowta, parkin' the old car fer winter is an annual ritual isn't it? It wouldn't be a bad idea to do that top cylinder oil "treatment" before you park it so everything is nice and loose in the Spring. I do this with my old inboard boat engine by squirting Marvel Mystery Oil into the intakes of the carbs while it's running for the last roundup. Some people squirt 'til it dies but I don't think that's necessary. I shut off the gas and give it a few squirts while it's idling before the carbs run dry. It'll smoke some, but the heck with the neighbors! This routine also gets some oil on the carb jets and seems to help avoid varnish build-up. Plugged carb jets are a ROYAL pain when you go to start it.

Then disconnect the battery, say a short benediction and close the garage door 'til Spring finally comes again. DON'T "give it some exercise" by starting it over winter. It'll just load the exhaust system with moisture and hasten rot-out from the inside. But a visit now and then might keep her from getting lonely out there in the cold and dark. It'll make you sad though. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Then you just have to remember how much fun it'll be next year! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

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Guy, the ole Windsor started to give me troubles again---no spark. I had to go in and replace all the wires in the distributor this time. You were correct on the braided wire problem, I guess they should be replaced every time, there would be less problems. After I did this it starts every time---it just starts to turn over and she`s running. I used 14ga. braided wire on both wires---Thanks all who helped!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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The best it got was a drive around the block---with bad tires and brakes I did`nt want to go to far. It`s already over at my buddies and getting the floors repaired and two new body mounts, should be home by the weekend. The next thing is to replace the rear end to get the better gear ratio. Then on to the brakes. I bought all new window channels and fuzzies, the interior is set to be redone the first of the year. Then all the little junk that has to be done....more later....

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How 'bout tires? I found putting some new rubber under the car very inspirational--did it even before it was running. Put them on right in the field! Then trailered it to its new home. Even pushing it around the garage was easier with some decent rolling stock. I just picked up some "out-dated" model Firestone all-season radials for about $30 each at Tires Plus. P215 75R 15. Some people need to go with the smaller P205 size for the wheel openings on the Plymouth models from the '46-'48 era (the '47 Dodge has nice big wheel wells) although the tire circumference in a P205 75R is a little too small for accurate speedometer readings. I'm only speaking for '46-'48 models. I don't know what your '52 would take. Might be similar. Modern radials seem to work well, so no need to spend a fortune on the "classic" style. Even the narrow whitewalls don't look bad atall. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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Guy, Would like to put the wide white`s on, but we will see how the other stuff goes this winter. The car came with a good set of chrome wheels and I don`t have a set of stock rims. It comes down to money and it seems a shame to just can the chromies--ya can`t get nothin for em. May have to use these for awhile till things get done. Updates later.

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They fit and all, but they are 8 inch rim so the clearence is an issue--only a 1/4 inch.--this is on the rears only. Not a big worry till I have it ready for the road---still like the WWW. RONM10---the channels and fuzzies I got at Andy Bernbaums. Hey big Jon R. you still alive, have`nt heard from you for awhile---how ya doing????????

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