Tom Laferriere Posted September 9, 2005 Share Posted September 9, 2005 I think there is something wrong with me. I want to trade my 1935 Auburn Boattail Speedster replica for an American Lafrance Speedster. Hyman has one, but its too "pretty", but I would except it, but trading the Auburn is not an option. I will be at Hershey so maybe I can find one there. Am I in fantasy land hoping to do this? Or should I just come to my senses? All comments welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shop Rat Posted September 9, 2005 Share Posted September 9, 2005 I know that it is a replica, but I couldn't part with it if I had it. I will never be able to afford one, but my dream is to have a '35 or '36 Auburn Boat-tailed speedster.Heck, I would settle for a ride in one someday before I die. I have a real grill from one and the rough casts of the Supercharged that goes on either side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn G Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Tom,You're not alone! I am actively shopping for a circa 1915-1925 ALF myself. (Heh! When I first started looking for something to replace my current project it was an Auburn boattail replica I was after, but I couldn't find a decent kit. Yours looks beautiful. Turnkey, or did you build it?) Anyway, I ended up getting obsessed with these monsters instead. The one you liked is a 6-cylinder, I like it too, but I don't get these prices at all. Why pay that for what's obviously a very old conversion, probably needing quite a bit of work? It'll have a high mileage, in addition to whatever hours were on the engine if it used to be a pumper. It may have "history", but so do all the original fire engines, and you can pick a running one up for 15K with 3000 miles on the clock, and do the conversion yourself. The one at Hyman's is a 4-cylinder, I agree it is too 'pretty' or fussy. There's another four on a UK auction-house site, but it's similar, and yet another on oldclassiccars.com, but no photos of that one (it's a bit cheaper though, IIRC). No other six-cyl speedsters around right now that I know of, but there are a couple of the fire engines for sale here and there. Of course, you can spend a packet restoring one, especially if you need to get new valve guides etc made.Anyway, glad to see *I'm* not alone! (Doesn't mean we're both not crazy, of course.) If you'd like to yak more about these things I'd love to hear back from you. Cheers,Martyn G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Tom,Your car looks similar to one that is for sale right now at VOLO Auto MuseumNice ride you have there.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Laferriere Posted September 14, 2005 Author Share Posted September 14, 2005 Hi Tom,Thanks for your kind comments about my car. It is fun and thats what its all about (IMHO).Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Laferriere Posted September 14, 2005 Author Share Posted September 14, 2005 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Heck, I would settle for a ride in one someday before I die. </div></div>Anytime your in Rhode Island, let me know. It was my dream for an Auburn, but now that I have it, my dream has been fulfilled. Now I have a new dream! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Laferriere Posted September 14, 2005 Author Share Posted September 14, 2005 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You're not alone! Anyway, glad to see *I'm* not alone! (Doesn't mean we're both not crazy, of course.) If you'd like to yak more about these things I'd love to hear back from you. Martyn G </div></div>Hi Martyn, I thought I was the only one. I got turned on by the ALFS when I went for a ride in one last year in Mich. We were hauling about 55MPH and the engine was barely working. I have been hooked since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 We're just finishing the design and build of a 1915 ALF Speedster project. Just fired the freshly rebuilt engine last week. What a thrill! 980 cu. in. thru straight pipes. Literally rattles the windows of the shop. Anyone contemplating such a project should stop by and look at this one. I'd be happy to discuss the details. Tires, rims and oversize drive sprockets are just a few of the problems to be dealt with. This one is not for sale but we're damned proud of the design. Weighed it yesterday. 6250# with fuel, battery, etc. We lathed 94# of excess weight from the flywheel, it now weighs only 112# ! Soon ready to dismantle this beast and start making it purty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bamford Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Please can we see a picture? Or two? or ten? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Laferriere Posted September 14, 2005 Author Share Posted September 14, 2005 You are killin me. No teasing! I will be heading to Hershey. I am staying in Lancaster and would like to see the car. Should I just drive the Auburn to your house? Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Laferriere Posted September 14, 2005 Author Share Posted September 14, 2005 What kind of car is in your icon? Please share some pics and info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bamford Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 Hi Tom, the icon is my 1912 KisselKar 50-HP Fire Chief's car. We restored it from a long-ago tractor conversion. Here is a thread with more details and some before and after photos: KisselKar I acquired this '16 LaFrance (photo attached) as a speedster project in 1998 from Hal Filinger in Philadelphia. Dad and I had been to Hershey in '93 for the KisselKar project where I saw one for the first time and was forever smitten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bamford Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 Now why isn't the attached photo attached?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn G Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 Chris, it looks like maybe there is a space in the filename? Try renaming the file without spaces then re-send, that might do it. I've been talking to Hal myself. Was he good to deal with? Seems like a good guy.Tom, yeah, I hear they have unbelievable torque. Great-looking motor too, something really different. You're definitely not the only one! I've collected pics of a few dozen speedsters off the net, guess there must be hundreds in all. There are some real stunners.Restorer32 - pics!! pics!! Please!! I for one would be really interested to hear about the tech details but am in Australia so can't stop by anytime soon. Did you use the original sprocket hubs and turn down the teeth? How did you attach the new sprocket rims? Were new drive chains hard to get? How did you know when to quit, with the flywheel? From the capacity, this is a six, right? Sorry for all the questions! Cheers,Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bamford Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 Thanks Martyn -- but I took out the space in the filename and it's still no good. Hal was fine to deal with. Turns out he built the one we saw at Hershey in '93. If I can sort out the Attachment problem, I'll post a pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn G Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 Oh well Chris, thanks for trying! Will be great to see if you can fix it. If you get nowhere, email it to me at nipngnwm@q-net.net.au , I'll be happy to give it a try for you also. Might just need to be resaved or something before the board software will allow it, boards can be funny sometimes.Cheers,Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn G Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 OK, here's my try at posting Chris's 1916 ALF......seems to be working; all I did was resave it with a new filename and highest quality setting, like I said, boards are weird! Chris, thanks for mailing that, and it would be fantastic to see your progress with this project as you go along, hint hint! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Laferriere Posted September 15, 2005 Author Share Posted September 15, 2005 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tom,Your car looks similar to one that is for sale right now at VOLO Auto Museum</div></div>Sale price of $78,000! What a deal. I'll take half for mine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn G Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 That's one of the Speedster Motorcars replicas I guess; they used to make kits, but only turnkeys now I think. I fancied the kit, more fun to get your hands dirty. Very hard to find a boattail kit now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Laferriere Posted September 15, 2005 Author Share Posted September 15, 2005 Lets keep this interesting. I am also open to 1914-15 Hudson 654 Touring like the one below. That is Carl Weber's car. I am 6' tall and that should give an idea on the size of that monster. 37" tires, 135+" WB. I am drooling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 I'd love to post a few pics of an ALF Speedster but I don't have any idea how to go about it. Help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 Does this work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 Another view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 and another Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 one more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 had enough yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 last one, I promise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 I lied, this is the last one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bamford Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 Great pictures, thanks for posting. You've obviously put a lot of effort into the details and proportions.Here's a pic of the big day we fired up my freshly-rebuild '16 ALF six, with a garage full of buddies over for the occasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn G Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 Wow! Restorer32, see what you mean about the design work. That's a ton of stuff you've done there. Love the tube thing. Oil cooler?Chris, motor looks nice. How far have you got now, is it back in the car? How much work did you need to do to the motor? Tom, awesome Hudson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Laferriere Posted September 16, 2005 Author Share Posted September 16, 2005 I am speechless. If I was ever to describe the ALF I wanted, this would be it. OK, my name is Tom Laferriere and my email will always be tom@tomlaferriere.com Make sure to write that down when you are ready to sell. Speechless...I'll even throw in the Packard for that baby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 The tube thing is an auxiliary radiator. If we can work out the trailering logistics we'll have it at our spaces at Hershey, just for fun. RWO 10. Stop by. If you choke it just a tad too much on startup it shoots fire out those straight pipes. If you choke it WAY too much and the timing is a bit off it backfires down into the oil pan (24 quarts by the way), blows the timing cover into little pieces of shrapnel that fly around the shop, and envelopes the Boss (that's me) in an 8 foot diameter ball of flame, fills the entire shop with smoke and causes less seasoned employees to run in terror out the front door... Funny thing is, the owner is a 70+ retired schoolteacher with a taste for the bizarre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizzyDale Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 Dear Restorer32,Where did you EVER locate another timing cover????diz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillP Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 Great speedster. Bizarre is cool. The hunt is on for old ALFs.Are you going to do the fire ball thing at Hershey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 $300 for a new timing cover. I'm told by those who know ALFs that exploding timing covers are a not very rare phenomenon with these engines. I'm also told that the 4 cylinder ALFs like to blow the oil pans apart. Not something I ever want to experience again, my heart might not take it. Did you notice the 3 ounce priming cups in the engine photo? We tried to keep everything to scale. No need to prime it, it fires right up. Small fortune in those 18 spark plugs. One set of plugs runs off the mag while the other two per cylinder are fired by a two coil setup thru a Nash Twin Ignition distributor on which we reversed the rotation. The tires are the same as the ones made for the Wingfoot Express. We bought new 24" tractor trailer rims, narrowed them to 6" and had bands lathed out and plug welded to the inside diameters to adapt the new rims to the original wood wheels. We built the exhaust (no muffler) from 3" tubing and fabricated the diverters so that with the exhaust exiting straight out it's REALLY,REALLY LOUD, whereas with the exhaust diverted rearward it's merely REALLY LOUD. It's actually very responsive to the throttle with the lightened flywheel, new aluminum pistons, etc. Haven't worked up the nerve yet to actually drive the thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillP Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 You'll get a crowd twenty deep when you light it off at Hershey just to hear it. You won't have to do the fire ball trick. What's the bore & stroke of the engine? What condition was the engine, what rebuilding work had to be done? What are the large diameter sheet metal tubes let into the back side of the front fenders for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 I don't really know the bore and stroke offhand, the owner had the heavy machining work before we got the project. 960 cu in (16 liter). We assembled it with new valves, pistons, rings, etc. It was bored of course. New bearings. We installed all new clutch discs, all 6 of them! The tubes in the front fenders will house mirrors. New drive chains, all new brake linings. We lowered the front end considerably. Originally the rear straight axle was mounted under the springs. We relocated it to above the springs which lowered the rear end significantly. We made a wooden pattern and had the cowl cast in aluminum. Made the brass grill shell, fabricated all of the fender brackets, braces,hood, auxiliary radiator etc. The drip oiler on the dash will provide constant lubrication to the chains. New honeycomb rad core from England, etc, etc. Made the body, seats, etc. It also gets a monocle windshield and a cowl mounted spotlight. Should do about 70mph @ 1500 RPM. Great fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn G Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 Restorer32, I'm killing myself laughing here at the "less seasoned" bit! Hope you weren't burned or otherwise injured though? Didn't know about the explosion hazard and it's a bit of a dampener. Would it be feasible to cast up a stronger case with ribbing, or would that just result in the pan blowing off? How bad is the shrapnel and flame hazard really? I think if I ever find one of these I'll be using the electric-start only...ideally by remote control! I spotted the cast cowl and was going to ask about that, almost couldn't believe what I was seeing. Ditto the radiator; I thought you might have cut down or lowered the original or something. How many leaves did you take out of the front springs? I can't believe the amount of work you've put into this thing. The design is brilliant, great job, you deserve to be proud.BillP...don't say that...I've been looking all year...there's too much competition already, hehe!! Prices are shooting up, actually. A year or two ago two Type 75's were advertised at 6K but you wouldn't get a deal like that any more.Bore on these is usually about 5.5". Dunno the stroke, offhand. Supposedly you can use some Lycoming aero-engine pistons, and there are supposed to be John Deere ones that also fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn G Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 PS if anyone would like to see video of an ALF speedster running, there's some here:http://www.couldbemine.co.uk/lafrance.htmThis machine was for sale in the U.K. on www.prewarcar.com earlier this year, but has now sold. Cheers,Martyn G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn G Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 And here's the other Four I mentioned, up for auction early next month in the U.K. It's not bad really:http://www.classic-auctions.co.uk/detailb.php?&sal_salno=S03C&car_carno=15920&sal_type=CARSignificantcars.com says they have a 1915 speedster coming soon also.Cheers,MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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