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37 buick suspension upgrade


Rgreen

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Dude, there are many good reasons to modify an old vehicle. Number 1 is parts finding. Depending on the condition of your Buick to start with it many make more sense to use updated parts as parts are hard to find and expensive. You gotta ask yourself if you are going to restore a car for shows and to be judged or do you want a drive-able, unique vehicle that you can find brakes and shocks for at Midas instead of scouring the country?

A recent episode of American Hot Rod had Boyd Coddington building 2 rat rods. One began from a lousey old rusted body but the other was commenced from about an 1915 Ford coupe that was restored! Blasphemy!

Look, when I was growing up in the mid-50s there weren't very many folks beyond museums and tiny groups of quirty old car geeks that "restored" cars of the 20s back to some form of originality. 1940 Fords were only 25 years old and not partliuclarly rare and many other cars weren't either. Why not chop and lower a 1950 Mercury in 1957? Would anyone balk at taking a torch to a 1998 Mercury today? It was all relative!

Suddenly in the last 20 years there are legions of people with enough $$ to buy collectable cars. Something from the 30s is now very old and rare-ish so people will wince at your idea. I bet your car could be a long way and lots of $$ from 100% restoration to 1937 factory standards. Now if someone comes along and says 'here's all the money you need to retores it properly' they should have some say in it. This is YOUR car and YOUR $$$. And the paramount thing to all this old car hoop-la, except for a few, is to actually have a functioning old car that can be driven safely. The few have museum-quality cars that shouldn't be driven.

If it means making the car drive-able on your budget with a dependability factor versus sitting in the garage decaying, by all means do it!!

The Tahoe rear end can probably be made to fit little or no narrowing the rear axle. The idea of using a truck/van fron suspension is good. It'll be more sturdy that something from a car for a heavy-weight like the Buick. The great thing is that all your mods are invisible. 99% of the afficianados would never notice the underpinnings unless they got under it any way. Technically you are restoring using non-original parts that leave the car stock from normal viewing.

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Hey, guys thanks for comments, but what I plan on doing would be reversible. Let me share my plans. I plan on using the existing lower a-arms, make a bolt on or possible weld on adapter to accept the lower ball joint for the spindle. Then I will install the spindle to the lower stock/modified a-arm. The set the caster camber to neutral and place the chevy van upper A-arm in its approximate location. Then all that remains is to either bolt on or weld on a bracket that is heavy enough to support the system. The van has this angle bracket already with the system that is unbolted. Then the brakes will just bolt onto the spindles. If I keep the suspension parts with just a little work it could be taken back to orginal. But some of the car has already been modified. New wiring harness with 12 volts, new on the firewall master cylinder, one wire 12 volt alternator, the orginal inside handles have been upgraged. The care was totally restored, new paint, 4K for an award interior that is probally close to orginal but probally not specifically orginal. all new chrome etc...

I plan on keeping all the rest of the car orginal in appearance. The car was offered for sale for 15K by the previous owner at a local classic car hot rod store. Car was there for several months with no apparent interest. Then rod started to knock and owner got motivated to sell it. I paid 9K. My thought is that with these minor mods and possibly A/C the car may bring close to the 15K after done. Since I am doing all the work I think I can upgrade the motor/trans/rear. and suspension brakes and A/c for no more than 2K.

Sorry for offending the purists, but I want to drive this care in the cruise america tour in a year or two and tour the entire US in this car. I can not be looking for obselete parts when on the road.

Am I brain dead or will this front suspension upgrade be as simple as I think.

Regards to all.

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Guest De Soto Frank

Um, I think that if you put the original suspension into first-class condition and keep it greased and aligned, it will be entirely serviceable and reliable, and for a lot less time and trouble than trying to integrate modern parts...

I think such an approach is worthy of consideration...

A lot of guys condemn stock suspension w/o bothering to replace all the worn parts and see what the car will do when returned to factory specs...lots of police departments used Buicks in the '30s & '40s, they couldn't have handled that badly...

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I can not be looking for obselete parts when on the road. </div></div>

Then do it now! smile.gif

I'm glad to see that the modification suggested is one that does indeed seem to be reversible. I don't pretend to be an authority on such mods, but the only thing I find questionable is the suggestion of bolting on the bracket to "hold the system". I seriously doubt that anything but major welding could be strong enough to support this car reliably. (I'm taking you at your word that such welding is "reversible", however in my experience few such mods ever are.)

Which brings me to my point. The suspension that's there has been supporting the car for 68 years. It may be old and tired, but it is hardly a rare commodity or exotic system to refurbish. Also I can see little advantage in handling and ride between a van suspension and the stock '37 Buick front end. If we were talking traverse springs or even a beam axle I could see it, <span style="font-style: italic">maybe!</span> This car is one of the best riding and most durable set-ups of it's era, and (in my opinion) is possibly <span style="font-style: italic">better</span> in roadability than even a modern box van's suspension.

Not to mention the loss of authenticity, not in the vehicle (which is why you're getting resistance from this club's membership) but in the <span style="font-style: italic">experience</span>. Riding around in an antique car that's been so totally "modernized" is a little like taking the chair lift to the top of K2. You're still getting there, but it's not the same thing.

The Buick Club of America's link page lists any number of vendors who can supply everything you'll need to completely refurbish your Buicks suspension until it is literally better than new. Many major components (like new springs, for instance) are often still available new from suppliers like JC Whitney and Eastern States Performance Outlet . The likelyhood of a failure "on the road" at that point is miniscule at best. Certainly it's a <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">LOT</span></span> less than the likelyhood of failure for an untried system!

Should you ram a curb or do some other heinious damage while touring it'll still need repaired regardless of modification. If you think it's hard to get old parts in the middle of nowhere (it isn't, just expensive due to Fed-Ex shipping costs), try getting a garage to let you drive out the door with a jerry-rigged "custom" suspension that they now hold the liability for! There aren't many Cooters left in Mayberry any more, and any Service Manager who values his (by now corporate) job will never allow himself to take on <span style="font-style: italic">that</span> liability!

We've been fighting here against the idea that antique cars are china dolls that can't be driven. There are a lot of aftermarket parts sellers that have serious incomes riding on convincing people that they are. Don't be another sucker! smile.gif

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I agree with DeSoto Frank. You will be better off rebuilding the original front end than by doing a major, and expensive, transplant. I have just finished rebuilding the front end of my 1940 Buick Special. I replaced the shocks/upper A-frames, springs, and all of the suspension bushings together with the tie-rod ends. The job cost me about $500 with my labor. The car now rides and handles about as well as any modern vehicle given that I'm using bias-ply tires and there is no power assist steering. But, for driving on the highway, the car feels solid and handles extremely well (but it won't out-corner a Ferrari). I'm sure that you could substantially improve the cars' handling by doing a front end rebuild and installing radial tires. I also suspect you would gain more doing that than you would by getting involved in an untested van suspension transplant that may actually turn out to be a downgrade rather than an upgrade.

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Guest De Soto Frank

Furthermore,

I've NEVER seen a vehicle with king-pin suspension (your Buick, my De Soto) on the shoulder with the front wheels splayed-out at the bottom...

I've seen PLENTY of modern ball joints suspensions on the side of the road as described because a worn ball-joint broke apart and the wheel splayed out....

(and the only thing you can do then is shoot it... laugh.gif )

And, should anyone be wondering, I've put nearly 15,000 miles (over eight years-now just about to turn 98,000 miles) on my '41 De Soto with the ORIGINAL (and pretty worn) front suspension, and nothing has come apart...

(I WILL be rebuilding it this spring; got all the new parts ($300 or so)...just have to grit my teeth and do the dirty work.)

Another "furthermore"...the almighty Chevrolet Corvette, from its introduction in 1953, all the way up through 1962 utilized the STOCK ("antiquated") king-pin front suspension that served mundane Chevy family haulers from 1941-'54...if the system were so bad, why did Chevy keep using it for another eight years on their premiere performance car ?

Fix your Buick and drive it...and don't get suckered by those clowns on Speedvision or Monster Gargage that insist on changing everything on the car before you can drive it down to the 7-11... wink.gif

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Your key statement is the fact that you want to tour the entire country in your car. Would the Buick with all renewed front end parts be able to do that? Probably. Do you have sources for everything that would be needed? I am thinking that a big reason for the mod idea is to have coil springs and disc brakes up front which would be a big increase in peace of mind for safety.

It's pretty obvious you aren't interested in the show and judging circuit. You want to drive the car! The new wiring harness is a plus in either case. The 12v switch over has been done by someone else and we know it works along with an alternator to pump out juice. Guess even that could be changed back if someone ever wanted to. The suspension mod can't be easily reversed even though it is virtually invisible outwardly. But you have to think about what YOU want the car for not anyone here.

I certainly wouldn't care to drive around the country without a good electrical system- at least a 6v alternator if no 12v change was already made. Are you considering the fact that your van IFS front end will require less expensive brake parts, shocks and such in the long run? A/C would be a very nice option for travel in warm summer climes. The A/C stuff out there today lik Obsolete Air is quite unobtrusive and effective. Yeah some non-standard holes might have to be made to accomadate it but as a kid I remember vacations in the '54 Mercury without A/C and they weren't comfortable!! I wouldn't drive a 2005 non-A/C car thoughout the US in the summer either!

If you are planning to keep the car and pass it down to whoever, the intrinsic value has nothing to do with market value. Forseeably is someone else going to be bummed out if you sell the car? Yeah if they want 100% original. If your kid gets the car it doesn't matter. If you are going to use the car in California for club nights and cruises in good weather the Buick will get more use than most old cars in the nasty climates. If this car is a "keeper" and you can imagine 30-40 more years of personal use, consider the mod.

On the other hand if you can obtain all the parts you need to renew the car for probably $500 that's minor in the scheme of things to what has already been put into the Buick. A $4000 interior is some heavy bucks and I know a "driver" paint job at probably $3000 plus rechroming adds up to a hefty portion of what is in the car before turn one bolt. More than half of what the car is probally worth was spent on cosmetics alone. Give it a chance, if you do all the relpacements and the vehicle rides and tracks below your expectations by all means mod it.

For many years people owned original cars that were garage queens. They let them deteriorate for various reasons. Anything left outside for decades is pure trash. Anyone ballsy enough to rescue a junker and build a custom or rod out of it instead of a 100% original has my admiration. What's better, just let it rot? Better to see a modified car ON THE STREET than an "original" in the junkyard!

The car below is called Pack Rat. It looks good and was done with respect to enhancing the Packard distinctiveness and is not totally radical in reshape. Better this than the elysian fields of decay in a salvage yard.

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You're advised here to:

1. Fix the car properly as designed and it will give you miles of trouble-free service. Or,

2. Add coil springs (it already has some, so the more the merrier), disc brakes (of limited benefit with skinny tires, nevertheless would require new dual circuit master cylinder with proportional valve, etc.), air conditioning, master plan for the eventual disposition of the vehicle, and you mentioned something about a new rear axle which I guess would mean an open drive shaft. Maybe the poor Buick in question has a closed drive shaft necessitating even more semi-scientific buffoonery.

Why not get a Toyota in which to do the cruise?

PS you never mentioned what was wrong with the front suspension in the first place that brought you to your decision to 'upgrade' it. Kindly illuminate.

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I appreciate everyone's comments, they do vary, guess that is what makes america so great, and what makes the hobby interesting. I have been driving around a 41 plymouth opera coupe for about 25 years, still bone stock orginal and since it runs perfect it will stay that way. But needless to say I go everywhere slow, and always drive on the defensive because of brakes. I also have a 37 pontiac 6 cyliner coupe that is bone stock orginal. I also drive it around very defensively. I agree on the ride of all three of these cars as being very acceptable. But my wife will not ride in them with me in the summer because the hot california sun makes it unbearable. I agree that the ride quality of the buick is very nice. and because my two other orginal cars go so slow I just do not drive them very far from home. I want a car that I can jump in and drive for long distances, and a car that my wife will ride in with me. Since the buick has a rod knocking and should probally be totally rebuilt I figured since all the cosmetics have been done that this would be a quick upgrade and make the car meet my needs. I have looked for a finished rod with AC and modern brakes but cannot afford the 30-60K that people want for them. And I needed a car large enough for the grand kids to ride along in with me. I figure that I can have a finished car, with all these upgrades for no more than a total investement of 12K. The reason for the van suspension is I wanted to keep the 5 on 5 bolt pattern for the orginal rims. For those of you that want to shoot me for this well I understand, for those that support the idea of change it to suite you well thanks. I used to work in a welding blacksmith shop in Illinois years ago so can handle the welding and fabrication with no problem. Plus my best friend works in a body shop and has done frame straighting, and all that stuff so he is going to make sure the geometry is correct. To me the strange thing that I am doing is mixing the changeover, by using the orginal lower A-arms, orginal coil spring tower, and just installing new upper arms and new spindles and hubs and brakes. I bought an excellent running donor van for 500.00. The motor just passed Calif smog with flying colors and the AOD was rebuilt about 10K ago, this should improve the mileage from the old straight 8. get rid of the three speed stick on the floor that growls when changing gears. Well I am sure we have just about beat this horse to death. If anyone would like to know how this half assed, change over comes out let me know. Regards to all Ray

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Well, guess I am embarrassed by this boondoggle, I had no idea this site was mainly for purists and restoration work. Last time I felt this uncomfortable was when I walked into a gay country western bar in MOnterey, I sat down at the bar ordered a beer and after a couple of minutes the bartender said, "do you know you are in a gay bar", Nope, I finished the beer and walked out. Not that I have anything against gays, just not that comfortable in the situation.

Hopefully, if and when I make the changeover someone that can really use the orginal parts will step up and I can help them along the way by getting them the orginal parts for thier restoration. Happy trails to all.

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Guest De Soto Frank

Ray,

Thanks for filling us in on your other pieces and your rationale behind the questions for the Buick...can't hate you for wanting some creature-comforts such as A/C...I'm quite familar with the "spouse factor" !

My "new" daily driver ('93 Excort) doesn not even have functioning A/C... frown.gif which isn't a matter of life and death here in NE PA...

I think those of us who frequent this forum tend to come on strong when someone posts a question about modifications...

Might it be resonable to do a cost analysis of what it would take to fix the issues with the Buick running gear and weigh that against your proposed mods?

Also, is this a big Buick (Limited, Roadmaster, 320 cid engine) or the smaller Special ?

A big Buick eight should have the guts to run A/C plus lug the family around...

If it indeed makes sense to modify I would hope that it's possible to do so without making it impossible to return the car to stock condition down the road...perhaps even squirrel the original components and sell them with the car when it goes ?

Good luck !

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RGreen- in what area do you live in California? I'm in the 90280 area. Your're a guy who has more totally stock original cars than some folks that come here and still you get grief, huh? grin.gifNoooooooo.gif

I can totally understand looking for a modernized, comfortable, dependable unique cruiser that you can confidently drive vast distances. And yes the machines already done are for sale at $30,000++

Back in the day no one, I mean no one was restoring older cars to the Nth degree besides museums and a tiny handfull of folks. In the 50s-60s an "old" car was a 40 Ford for $125. 1940 Packards went for $3-500 max. No one referred to them as a classics. Unless it was expensive or rare to begin with no one was saving cars from the 20s or 30s to any degree either. Today a 15-20 year old Mercury Sable or anything else is by no means a classic or has much possibility of becoming a sought after vehicle until about 2050...perhaps. There are legions of cars that really can't be called hot rods since they are completely stock original by outward appearance with modern, dependable mechanicals under the skin.

Anyone living outside the Southwest has no idea we use our car A/Cs in January when the sum focuses on the auto glass. And Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico, west Texas, southern Utah and the California desert areas can get brutal in any season. As for discs- they are superior and safer in any application regardless of tire size.

Green- how anyone got off on a political rant about Californians is unknown. There's probably more 37 Buicks in California that are outwardly stock to be seen than in any state. You know in nice weather we see beaucoup older cars cruising around. Every weekend brings them out.

More late 30s cars have been saved by Latino kids here that pour tons of money into them than anywhere. You've seen them. They got chrome wheels and super plush interiors but are stock in all else. 30-40 years ago NOBODY wanted these cars for any price! $7000 paint jobs, $3000 wheels/tires, rebuilt/restored stock engines and mechanicals with $5000 interiors give a lot of weight toward an "atta boy, thanks for saving the vehicle," from most people.

When someone steps forward to bankroll a restoration on your Buick then they can have some say on what should be done. Your original question was simple whether anyone here had any experience in using modified, newer parts on older cars not asking permission from the Kabala of Klassics to modify the last existing 37 Buick.

Prayer.gif

NudgeNudge.gif

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Hey guys, you will probally cringe with this statement, I see my cars as an investment. I pretty much refuse to spend more on the car than what I can get out of it. If I did not follow that philosophy I would not have 20 Classic cars and 'wanna-be' hot rods sitting in my barn and shop. My idea is that 'if it ain't really broke, do not fix it. I agree that just because something is old, doesn't mean that it will not work properly and is acceptable. In some instances I would not modify a car, examply I saved a 31 A coupe for 7 years the idea to hot rod it. But since the car ran so perfect I did not have the heart to tear it apart. I sold it to a Model A purists, and then went and bought a car that someone else had already begin to modify. On my current buick factor one, the motor must be totally rebuilt. My research shows that it will cost about 2K to rebuild the motor. So I have to decide if I would be happy with the car with orginal motor or should I modernize it. My financial advisor says that this short wheel based buick special would be more marketable with a V8 and AOD trans. My mechanical advisor says that if I upgrade the motor and start traveling at 75 mph that I had better upgrade the brakes for safety. My wife says if it aint got AC then I aint gonna ride in it until after the sun goes down. My sales advisor said that he felt unfortunately, that if two 37 buicks were sitting side by side and all things being equal and the same reasonable price that the modernized one would sell quicker than the orginal one. My sales advisor said that since this car was not that unique or rare that the value as to being totally orginal was lessened.

Just in case you are interested here is my list.

27 track T 350/400 with discs almost finished with paint, total investment 3K.

29 fiberglass A, full fendered rod. 30 A coupe chop top, rod. 31 A 4 dr touring sedan rodded in 60's; 37 pontiac coupe restored to orginal, 37 buick two door trunk back sedan, 41 ply opera coupe orginal driver, 48 F1 custom, 49 dodge coupe orginal, 53 F100 custom restored, 56 F100 rodded, 55 chev pick-up nearly finished orginal, 56 belair hardtop driver, 67 MGB org and show quality restoration; 67 big block satellite orginal driver, two 66 mustangs drivers, 68 vette convert, 74 vette t-top, 70 Ford Ranger big block driver, 31 A phaeton deluxe replicar. I has taken me 40 years to get this collection, until the past three years the only money invested in these cars was profit from the purchase and sale of other cars. Every car except two are inside out of elements. While I am emotional about all of these cars when it comes to the investement I cannot let emotion take over. I have to consider all things when purchasing and when restoring and or modifying these vehicles. I stil work full time for a living. Needless to say when I retire I will have more fun than anybody should be allowed to have. With all these cars I belong to no car club, I do not get along with the purists because I do change some things, I do not get along with the show circuit because I do not spend 20K on the car and install all the latest gadgets from Fatmans. I will probally neve get a best of show, don't matter. If you were to come visit me with your kids you can get into any of my cars, touch it, feel it, take a picture with you behind the wheel, and even let you drive it. I share my car with the common folk, not the hot rodders and customizers, and not the purists, those that can only dream of owning one. That common man has no idea about orginal stuff, custom stuff, etc.. they just know what they see. I do all my own work, fabrication, welding, paint, upholstery (ok i admit to buying a seat cover kit sometime) motor rebuilding etc... well guys it has been nice meeting all of you, and please keep up the good work in providing your insights to car restoration and preservation. Unfortunately, I am too busy in my shop most of the time to assist everyone in this manner but glad you can. Take care keep the rubber side down and the shinney side up. What am I gonna do, well unless someone comes along and gives me 11K for the car within the next two weeks, I am gonna upgrade it, cause sitting in the barn not running only lets it decay. So if you know a collector that would like a near show quality 37 buick let them know ASAP, I am not advertising. I figure to have all the changes and have it back on road before Easter. Ray

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Lots of words but still don't understand clipping the Buick. Is the front end missing or do you have Coddingtonitis.

PS Lot of the guys here are hotrodders too.

PS my MGB will kick your MGBs butt.

PPS I think maybe you have too many advisors.

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Guest De Soto Frank

Ray,

With all of what's been said, I guess this is not the best place to look for info about modifying old cars...short of perhaps adding Compound Carburetion your 248 or swapping a center section from a later Buick to improve highway gears, I guess that 's about the limit of "sanctioned" mods from this crowd...

You might check out sites such as the "jalopy journal.com" to find other guys who might offer what you're looking for ...

I wish I had the bucks and the storage to "preserve" your Buick, but I have the opposite problem from you Southwesterners... most of my hard-earned $ has been going to buy heating oil...talk about "burning your money" tongue.gif...

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Not clipping the front end, I see very few advantages to clipping anything, unless someone has no idea on how to set up the geometry for installing modern suspension. Clipping is way more work than I wanna do.

I am just replacing the upper control arm. On this buick it is not an A-arm just a single arm. I am changing that out to an actual A-arm. Then installing upper and lower ball joints that will accept the chevy van spingle. Should take no more than a half day to do each side. This way all the sheet metal will fit, the radiator will sit in orginal place etc..I am keeping orginal column, steering box etc. With the V-8 motor and AOD I will be driving 70 80 MPH in traffic and will feel safer with disc brakes. I have never heard of any one attempting this upgrade in this manner. Most everyone want to graft in a mustang II system, or clip the front. I see nothing wrong with the orginal lower arm. I Like the way they have positioned it. I like the way the car steers, I know this because it is identicle to my 37 pontiac in all aspects. If the existing control arms used ball joints I could just change these out to accept the chevy joints, but it does not have ball joints. It has these threaded excentrick (someone spell that correctly) system attaching the uprights for then use with king pins. the previous owner has already installed a manual split front rear brakemaster on the firewall, I will just add a power booster to this or maybe keep it manual disc with porpiotion valve.

This should be fairly easy, inexpensive, and reversible if someone wants to later. rg

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Ray,

Too bad we're not more specific help with adapting your spindles but this has been entertaining. BTW, my '37 LaSalles haven't been up to 80 mph but they stop fine for me, and the Indy 500 was paced by a convertible LaSalle in '37, no disc brakes. Today's traffic sucks a lot worse than a race track, though.

Just horsin' around about the MGB thing, I built mine a couple years ago to full rally specs with 1 3/4" SUs, rally cam, bored, flowed head, etc.

Good Luck!

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Ray- no one understood you were simply asking for someone that might be familiar with your idea and you got unsolicited advice on what you shopuld be doing with your property and how you should spend your money! shocked.gif

Having a 2 ton bomb cruising 75MPH ain't no fun to panic stop with using 1937 brakes. My El Dorado has 4 wheel discs and it slows down real well from 75. I wouldn't want to try it in my stock Packard though.

For what it's worth I completely understand your situation and desire to modify ONE of your 20 cars and the logic behind it. Sorry most others got so bent out of shape. Hope you do stay around here cause your experience with such a vast variety of older vehicles is pretty valuable.

fahr29.gif

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Twitch, I think most folks here understood the question. I also doubt most here care how someone else spends their money. A question was ask by Ray and opinions were given that is consistent with what you would expect from an antique car site, BIG SURPRISE!!! tongue.gifconfused.gif

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My understanding of the original posting was that Ray was asking for advice rather than an endorsement. Personally, I think it is discourteous for soneone to request that other people spend time sharing their expertise and experience and then take offense at the answers they get. Whether you like what you hear or not remember that the responders have taken their time to try to help you; just say thanks. Also, it is even less courteous to jump in and make caustic comments about other responses in defense of the original poster. Really, it is none of your business; let people deal with responses by themselves. Incidentally, I looked back through the posts on this thread and couldn't find anything on the subject of Californians untill Twitch brought it up; was he replying to another thread here?

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Probably because it is cheap, easy to install, and the after market is making everything you need. They have sub frames, tubular control arms ,and even air suspension if you so desire! I have a power rack in mine, and it drives like my Park Ave, but with the Pontiac Tran Am sway bar ,it corners like a slot car. I built it for the highway with a 2.56 posi in the back, but it runs high 13s in the 1/4 at 100+ MPH and never gets out of second gear. It's FUN to drive

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Hey guys, I appreciate everyones comments, I totally understand the concept of keeping stuff orginal. I understand for making upgrades. The bottom line is that fortunately for all of us we have people doing it all. Only because there is a demand for the parts do we have companies willing to develop bolt or weld on items to make these cars more driveable and the more they are drive the more people get to see them and the more interest in the hobby. Truthfully, we can not do without each of us. The purists to perserve some orginal cars so we all can enjoy that segment of auto history, the customizer we need to stretch our imagination and cause manufacturers to create cars that have personality. The street rodder to just make simple modifications and improvements. If we did not have all aspects of this puzzle we would not have the political clout and money behind this hobby to protect all of our interests. I have taken no offense, I appreciate those that have given support, and I appreciate those that want to keep it factory orginal.

To help Twitch understand the Mustang II thing, they have short a-arms, are reasonably adaptable to many different cars. The mustang II suspension has become to the hobby what the Small Block Chevy has become. Just tons of people making parts and adapting things for it. But I still can not figure out why it cost 2-3K to get one installed. After spending about two months on the internet researching front suspension, gemometry, etc... I have decided that there are many different ways one can go without doing the total front clip, or the mustang II stuff. I do have a 31 A with a mustang II under it, Plus I have another mustang II system just waiting for another car. However, for my 37 Buick I wanted orginal 5 on 5 bolt pattern, and on this particular car no one makes a weld in kit, (asside from fact that I would not buy one but rather make it). I still live in the do-it-yourself world. I am thinking that I can make this upgrade without purchasing one single item from any magazine or rod builder supplier. I will document this change over, I am gonna try to sell the article to one of the street rod magazines. If no takers then give it to them free. At least it will be available to the internet. I am not sure this is the correct site, but perhaps another site that would welcome this type of low budget yet sound upgrade. I did spend about the same two months searching the web trying to find out if anyone has done anything like this, NO LUCK. Got everything from "leave it alone", 'clip it', mustang II it, use a chevy s10 frame and just bolt the entire car to it, and 'why waste money on a buick do a ford or chevy". All opinions, all appropriate in some situations, but not what I want at this time. If anyone knows of a website that welcomes some type of journal and posting of pictures so I can share this process I welcome that info.

Again thanks to all for your taking time to comment. When you are visiting Sacramento stop by and say HI> Ray

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  • 3 months later...

Well, just in case anyone wants the final version. I did the upgrade, am willing to share more details but here is the quick and dirty. I used the stock Buick lower arms, welded in a plate to accept a 90 astro van ball joint. used the 90 astro van spindles, brakes, hoses, calipers and 12 inch vented rotors. Used a 90 full size van upper arm, used the same 90 upper bracket which the upper arm is bolted to. Unscrewed the buick tie rod end and then just screwed in the astro van tierod end fit perfect. Used the astro van power booster and proportioning valves. Since I used the stock steering box, tie rods, and lower arms there shoulb be no bump steer. If you want specific details as to how I set it up for caster and camber and antidive please feel free to contact me. This front end set-up was basically free since I paid 200 for the van, sold the trans for 100, sold the tires for another 100. And still have parts to sell. It took about 20 hours to make the change overs, including cleaning and painting it. I saved all the parts I removed and just in case someone wants to take it back to orginal all you would have to buy or find is stock lower arms.

Thanks for the interesting chatting, to begin with I was afraid of the tech aspects, but after hours of internet searching I feel very comfortable with this upgrade and it was easier than I expected.

Remember to keep the shiney side up. Until next time, which will be my 37 Pontiac 6 coupe.

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