Future of the BCA

What is in store for the future of the BCA? How many members here are under the age of 40 OR have kids in their teens-twenties interested in cars, much less Buicks? It makes me think what is going to happen to a lot of clubs 10 years from now, such as declining active membership. I love being part of the BCA, but i'm afraid im a nearly non-existant force within the club. I'm 25 and have been building cars and buicks with my family since i was a little kid. Problem is whenever i go to a BCA or AACA meet i rarely see youthful new potential members, namely folks that will have to keep the club going sooner or later. Post up here with your thoughts and whatnot, if you have kids that come to the shows, let us know. thanks for reading.

I have three boys and they are all interested in Buicks. They are also involved in earning a living, scouts, band, sports, and one in the service. They collectively have eight sons, and most of these boys are interested in cars and monster trucks ( I think this is a phase every boy goes through) We are taking two of the older Grand sons ( age 14) to the BDE meet in Sedona next june, and have already taken three of the Grand daughters to BCA national meets. If you get them involved young enough , they will see what fun the old cars are, and join us when they can.

My 13 year old son loves Buicks, cars and shows etc. He has been to multiple nationals and regionals. As a note he at 13 is BCA # 40,000. A gift I got him last year that I hope lasts a lifetime. He is proud to be a BCA member and is also very active in our local chapter.

The current BCA Board is very much aware of the "aging" problem, and they have floated several ideas to try to increase the club's slowly declining membership numbers. As a Board member, I'd like to see some more ideas and some discussion of the impact of some of them. For example, some of the Board members think we should encourage more owners with modified Buicks to join the club, and be a part of the magazine articles and the shows. However, whenever a cover photo or articles on modified Buicks appear in the Bugle, the outcry is loud and painful, and even though modified cars have a lot of creativity and craftsmanship, I fear we are alienating our core membership of "purists" when then threaten to drop their membership (and some do). Those are the LAST people that we want to lose, in my opinion.

Other Board members think we should loosen the requirements for getting an award at the national meets, to the point where so many new categories of judging are created, that no one can keep track of them all and all of their different rules. The hapless car owner scarcely knows which category to enter his or her car in, anymore. Pretty soon, in my opinion, EVERYONE who brings a car to a national meet will go home with a trophy or some kind of award. I think this cheapens the awards and lessens the value of the ones received, but I seem to be in the minority on this, and am usually outvoted on these types of questions.

Then there is the moderate viewpoint on the Board that says we should just relax a few of the judging requirements. For example, these folks say that we should drop the point deduction for radial tires on pre-1967 cars; and drop the point deduction for halogen headlights or modern air-conditioning systems. The tire debate could fill this entire discussion board for months.

Another effort has been made to "jazz up" the monthly magazine, in hopes that this will attract new and younger members, but it also means that the text in the articles has less detail or is shorter than it used to be some years ago.

A "Buick and its Parts" program for kids at the national meets has been started, but attendance is not very good (6 kids at the last national meet in Texas). A "Junior Judge" program is also in the formative stages, to allow kids under age 16 or 18 to be a part of the national meet judging teams. As a team captain, I'm not so sure I would want something else to keep track of on the judging field, but I can see the value of this.

I think we just have to accept the fact that Buick owners are growing older, and our membership numbers may decline, as those who grew up when Buicks were at their greatest, continue to grow older. Yes, we should continue to make an effort to recruit younger members, but not at the expense of alienating the long-time older members. I also think that the club will NEVER completely die off, because there are always younger folks who want to own a really old car, and to experience what they were like.

Other opinions or suggestions?

Pete Phillips, BCA #7338

pphillips922@earthlink.net

1924 model 44 roadster

1924 model 42 parts car

1954 Roadmaster model 76-4

1955 Special model 46-R parts car (anyone need parts?)

1972 Centurion convertible

McPherson, KS.

I think we need to embrace the performance and modified owners with open arms. I note on the BuickV8 website that has about 7 thousand registered users that the average age is a substancially lower than the average BCA members age. Times change, we need to keep up with them. What floats one persons boat doesn't float another. We need to be an umbrella for ALL Buick owners no matter what end of the Buick spectrum they are in. After all we are the BUICK CLUB OF AMERICA not the Not the Buick Club of the Communist Nation that tells people what they are allowed to collect and enjoy. I for one will be heavily courting this other group to try to bring them into our fold - no reason they/we can't belong to both.

This thread will certainly take off I think. A couple of points:

1) the obvious (to me) one is that if Buick starts producing exciting products again this problem will take care of itself. Most of us like Buicks because they were exciting cars when we were younger and continue to like the same vintage cars today (perhaps an effort to remain young??). Not a thing wrong with that but I must confess I find it hard to believe that many will find LeSabres or Park Avenues of the last 20 years that exciting and want to collect them in say 2015 or something (in fact not many young people have been driving these cars to build the emotional attachment to them that would seem to be a necessity even though they are not bad cars - just lacking in cachet with most young folks today). GM certainly has the technical ability to produce a product that could compete with European/Japanese performance cars that young people primarily prefer but has shown little inclination to produce them and when they do make an attempt the product is normally lacking with poor build quality, too many cheap parts from the parts bin, flash over substance, etc...

2) much of BuickV8 is comprised of performance, performance, performance. That should say something to GM shouldn't it? I'd guess as a number of these guys and gals get a bit older and have families they will be looking to purchase cars with some factory performance and while ardent Buick fans may not have much to select from. (As an aside I drove a BMW540i three weeks ago while I was in Florida and while it would not be my first choice the performance abilities of the car are wonderful. Don't think the Germans know anything we don't but... Would love to see better handling, better throttle response, etc... in our Buicks. While I'd prefer to see this in a rear wheel drive vehicle that would be some time off. Immediately I'd like to see a performance option for the LaCrosse [say the 3.5 with supercharger, tire and suspension upgrade, seats with come contours that hold you in the seat, etc...] that would be an eye opener for Buick naysayers.)

Without going into great detail, Pete has covered most of our discussions.

Newer cars from Buick are not that exciting. And plastic parts are not going to last forever, like metal ones. With Buick dropping the Riviera, there are few cars that seem like future collectables, I am really disappointed with the new LaCrosse, from the rear, it looks like a nice Tauras.

I have done my part to promote the Reatta as one of the few late model collectables from Buick. The Reatta was the most expensive Buick each year of its production, built in low volumes and used all unique external panels and glass, more so than the '53-'54 Skylarks. They are fully equipped, make great road cars and your wife will go places with you, in it. She will probably claim it for her own.

Plus now is the time to get a good price on a Reatta. The used car market is down and the Reatta has yet to be discovered by the rest of the world.

Now climbing down from that soap box, I step on another. Those of you that have older Buicks....don't turn up your nose when someone comes to your club meeting or show with a late model Buick, even if it is modified. First we get them interested in Buicks, then we get them thinking ...restored, original cars.

But first we must get their attention AND we must show some interest in the car they drive and make them feel WELCOME.

I agree with Keith...

23 years old and I don't plan on leaving anytime soon

And Adam, I'm really glad you're here and part of the BCA!

It's been great to see your enthusiasm for Buicks. Oh, and your interest in '71 Centurions is one of your great attributes.

Adam, I joined when I was 19 and I'm now 44 - so - you can follow in my footsteps

My biggest reason for joining the BCA, BPG - the PEOPLE!!

I can goof off with my car and go to all the shows I want, but it's not the same. Joining these clubs were some of the best decisions I've made for myself. And I got in just in time for Flint

i'll get my 16 year old to join. She loves her 56. So does her friends!

Good points that everyone brings up and i congratulate those who are getting the younger people involved. I strongly agree that Buick is partly at fault for not making noteworthy cars, as was a discussion at lunch today. As stated...what person is going to look back and say" man my dad had an awesome 99 Lesabre, I want to restore one". That pretty much goes for any car since 1980 or so though. Word of mouth seems to be the best thing for the club and i have been doing my best to find new members. matter of fact , I need to drop by a house i saw the other day and drop off an application - I saw two 65-7 skylarks in the garage. Both were red and it was in northeast Ohio.

Another thing, people don't have much of a taste for good looking cars. I know the speed bug bites alot of people so if a car is quick or feels fast , they like it. But i rarely hear comments from people about a cars looks be it old or new, but mainly old. Every time i take out a 40 or the 67 or whatnot, the most common thing heard is "wow, thats an oldie". haha No kidding! So maybe thats why older unique looking cars dont appeal to many people today. theyre so used to drab, uncharacterized cars that they know little else.. possible?

/end drivel

well, I'm not going to go through all my opinions, until I see the next bugle again ... but I had thought about dropping out of the BCA.

I Don't care about anything after 1950. I like to look at the '50's, then the '30's, and '20's.

I like helping people with straight-8's and 6's.

My '58 Cadillac is the only v-8 I talk about, and I run the www.1958cadillac.com, and am tired of those boaring questions.

So, I'm going to drive the '50 to Upstate NY in '05 and look at the show field and see if I tired of the whole operation.

I only go for display, and never go to a banquet.

I like to walk around the old stuff, that's it. The more rust in the the swap meet the better.

Right now I'm rebuilding my 3rd Buick engine, and after that the cars are done.

My new interested is in these air stream trailers, so I'm looking at more web pages on those then Buick has.

I just think that maybe the Brass age clubs, and AACA are covering what I like to see, and see no reason to read about bondo in the Bugle. I just don't care about them.

I've been thinking about how we can get the old cars back, and this is what i've considered a pre-30 profile:

-Older member

-dose not care about a shinny plastic nic-nak.

-likes to drive the car

-will go over 400 miles to get to a nice tour

-will come to a show with no admission fee as a honnor to the car

-dose not like to be around people who don't respect the old machines.

- thinks 70's owners and up are just lazy members, who have ac, cd players and no oil leaks.

-dose not like a parking lot show. grass only.

no rust in the swap meet, means nothing in the swap meet.

i can order for a catolog from home.

-not open minded about seeing a 70 skylark with a vinyl roof. big deal.

I don't think i'll be missed at the national meet. I'll just be on some tour, or in a nice park that weekend while the 86 buick people are clamering for the plastic nic-nak, for a car that they bought from the little old lady who die last month.

this is not some religon, or crusade that I plan on devoting my like to. If the BCA goes in a direction I don't want to go, then I'll see you later. It,s all for fun, we are not building a movement to take the white house back.

The old Buick as still on this earth, plenty to fill two nationals fields, our job is to figure out what will make the owner want to share his hobby. A platic trophic is not it. It's not working, what will?

(I just happen to be in South American right now, and had some time to kill!)

Check this:

http://www.team.net/www/museums/

Pete, Barney, and Keith have made some good comments and are reality-based. My observations about the "younger" people at BCA (and from reading the local AACA newsletter) tend to indicate that if "younger" people attend their meetings and events, they were in the company of parents or grandparents. It's great that we have the "Buick and Its Parts" program, but perhaps the "younger" people that the BCA ought to be courting is the 30-somethings that are finally getting their families established, their finances settled somewhat after their marriage and the kids arrived, and are ready to "do something" again.

In earlier times, Buicks were not a car that a young person could buy new, but a car they WANTED to buy when they got older and got enough money to buy a new or slightly used one. If you watch some of the old Buick commercials, there's one where a new school teacher has been saving her pennies and dimes to buy her "NEW BUICK"--doesn't matter that it's a base Special with blackwall tires, it's a BUICK and all that that said about the owner in those earlier time frames. More about status, "arriving", and the successful life that was expected to happen in the future.

Modern Buicks not "attractive"? Perhaps not in the same way that we knew them in the '60s and '70s--even back then it was aunts, uncles, grandparents, and other well-off people that bought Buicks and typically not the high school graduate (unless it was a Skylark GS or similar). For everybody that doesn't think modern Buicks are attractive to today's younger people, just check out www.RegalGS.org! Four doors, front wheel drive, and hot rods? Yep! Lots of information on those vehicles is exchanged on that one website, just like we did in earlier times with the more vintage vehicles we liked back then and now, and probably very similar to the V8 Buick site that many have mentioned, or the BPG too.

Then also catch a Meguiar's "Car Crazy" program on Speed Channel where they cover a tuner car event and car show. Lots of hot rod front wheel drives racing. Lots of really tricked-out customs too, but ALSO things like Mazda four door sedans on the show field (usually with the young couple that owns it and their child nearby) in fully detailed and "show condition". This is the group that Barry Meguiar calls "Nxt Generation".

Then, just for grins, go surfing through the various WebRings that are GM Platform-specific or brand-specific. I ran across several websites put up by high school kids on their front wheel drive LeSabres a few years ago. In a search for '76 Eldorado Fuel Injection information, I found a website by a high school male that was "in love" with those big Eldorados and rebuilt the entire fuel injection system, while also restoring the car to basically OEM specs (earning a high level award at a national Cadillac club meet too!) as part of his high school auto shop project!

Now, these younger age people are not in the Mitsu or Honda realm of things, but want something different. Heard that orientation before? So they end up as a third owner of a Buick (usually well cared for and in good condition) that impressed their friends with the luxury, power, and economy compared to their econobox cars. Oh, and "mods"? A chip in the ECM, K&N air filter, sound system, and maybe some fancy wheels (backdate that a couple of decades and see if it's not similar to prior times!).

Key point -- ALL of the data that has been, or IS being disseminated by the media is tracking ONLY the ownwer demographics of NEW BUICKS. By my own observation, but the time that new Buick hits the used car lot the first time, the age demographics of the second owner takes a BIG jump downward into the 30 or 40-something range. Then, when the third owner gets it, the demographics can taken another BIG jump downward, into the realm of some of the very people that are perceived to be the "future of the BCA".

Look at how many younger families are driving recent vintage Crown Victorias. For the same price as a new SMALL car, they have a much larger car that can easily carry them and their married friends on outings and such. Not to mention the parents. Same thing with used Centurys, Regal LSs, and LeSabres. Add some different tires and wheels and it makes an affordable car a nicer looking car too.

I concur that one of the best things we can do is welcome younger members into our chapter events, even if their cars are newer than 12 years old. I also concur that if we show them the great heritage that their newer car has, it can also increase their pride of ownership and very possibly realize they have "something special" instead of something mundane and common. ONE thing that we as chapter members do NOT need to do is to try to force the stated orientations about "The only good Buick is an OLD Buick" on them.

I am of the orientation that if we get them interested in driving a Buick as their basic transportation (and make them proud to be driving a Buick), as they grow older and more financially well-off, they will continue to buy Buicks and could very well desire to purchase a more vintage Buick to restore (probably one that is in the "appreciation" stage of its value cycle on the open market). In prior decades, the offspring usually ended up having the same brand of car as their parents drove (usually handed down when a new vehicle of the same brand was purchased). Getting that same cycle started in more modern times can be beneficial to the Buick hobby AND Buick/GM too.

Today's modern cars will be tomorrows collector cars, even as far out as that might seem. As nice as a '72 LeSabre two door hardtop or '74 Buick Apollo or '61 Skylark might have been when they were new, did we consider any of them a "future collectible" back then? What about a Plain Jane '66 Chevy C-10 6 cylinder pickup too? Probably not as there were too many of them around. But 30+ years later, it's a different story.

As the Buick Club of America, I concur that this organization should be an "umbrella" organization for all Buick enthusiasts--period. Welcoming and embracing ALL Buicks and owners into the "family". Sure, just as in regular families, there might be some models or types of Buicks that you might not care for, but that does NOT diminish the fact that they are ALL part of the Buick Family. Look at and enjoy the ones that you like, but do NOT degrade the ones you don't like.

Everybody has particular years and models and types of cars and Buicks that trips their triggers, and others they might not care for, this is normal. Trying to tell someone that they are making a mistake for not liking what you might like can be highly counterproductive to the entire automotive hobby, not to mention raised "oil pressure" and generating enough discontent to cause problems and ill feelings toward the particular hobby group. If that happened to you, you would not like it either, so it is adviseable to not do it. If you find something you don't like, just walk on past and go on to other cars you like better--period.

The other side issue is one that's not going to "get fixed" anytime soon. With the typical BCA member becoming "more gray", so do more participants at national meets. Although the national meets are the yearly capstone event of many clubs, non-members or prospective members look at the "typical participant" and make a judgment about the rest of the entire club from that small sampling of members. If the younger people don't see more people of their own age and such at the meets, do they really like to hang out with "old folks" all of the time?

At the 2004 BCA National Meet in Plano, I observed a good number of 20-somethings checking out the cars on the show-field-to-be about sundown one day. They might have admired the '50s and earlier cars, but the ones they were most interested in were . . . . the '70s GS cars. In other words, cars of an age that they might have read about in a more recent car magazine or (specifically) had contact with as they were growing up (does THAT sound familiar??).

I do NOT feel that the BCA needs to prostitute itself just to get younger members into the club by forgetting about the older and stock Buicks that have been the core group of the club for many years. Yet the BCA can expand the scope of "recognized Buicks" for the national meets and other events (with respect to type, year and model, and condition) in order to also expand the membership base. Having the full spectrum of Buicks on display at national meets makes for a better show for everybody, including the spectators (and potential future members!). Although some might consider it a myth, Buick did NOT stop building cars in 197_, or even 196_ (you fill in the blanks). I know, the definition of "car" might be debateable, but the nameplate is still being attached to a variety of vehicles, even today.

There are more aspects to a national meet than just the vehicles on the show field, but that also tends to define the national meet to many people. Only those worthy of a 400 Point trophy should receive one, but in other "participation" classes, many would receive some sort of recognition award.

Existing judging standards should be maintained lest they become diluted to please a few people that might not desire to ante up to keep their vehicle in suitable condition to earn a Gold Award in the current 400 Point System. As The Buick Club of America, WE should have the highest standards of authenticity and correctness of restoration of any national organization (especially for the GOLD level award!) that accepts Buicks into their national or other judged meets--period.

Many lament that fewer and fewer older Buicks are shown at national meets each year (which can also be related somewhat to the location of the national meet). A somewhat unfortunate situation as the age demographics of those vehicles' owners progresses. Possibly similar with many of the more vintage Senior and Senior Preservation level cars too? We can't force those people to take the time and expense of bringing those cars to the yearly meets, other than possibly for additional preservation or other awards. Maybe that's where the grandkids might come in?

Many members of the BCA have an untapped wealth of knowledge and information to share with others of the Buick persuasion, including younger people who might be interested in Buicks. Knowledge from "experience" and "prior activities" regarding Buicks of many different eras and orientations. Knowledge that can be used to mentor younger people (and those just entering the Buick hobby) as they establish their credible knowledge base which they will carry into their later lives as auto and Buick enthusiasts.

Some of the best things that can happen is when two enthusiasts, of somewhat diverse interests, start talking to each other about what makes their particular Buick (or any other marque of vehicle, for that matter) great and valuable to them. Not to "position" or "impress", but to share information such that both learn something--expanding horizons for each person. Every car has at least ONE story the owner can share with others--where it came from, repair issues, or ownership enjoyment. Putting together some of the pieces to the Buick Puzzle Matrix that might help each other understand more of what made Buicks the great vehicles they were and are today. It doesn't matter if the individuals are "older" and "younger", or have interests in different eras of Buicks, or any combination thereof. Key thing is that everybody appreciates what everybody else has and feels good about the Buick they have the keys to.

I wonder what might happen if we began looking at what we've termed "National Meet" in the past as more of a "Buick Reunion"? With such events that might be hosted by the Buicktown Chapter called "Buick Homecomming"? Might that orientation be more inline with what we might desire to be accomplishing rather than a yearly event just to justify handing out trophies or selling some rare parts (both functions which would still be a part of such an event)? Might be something to consider . . .

Thanks for your time and consideration,

Willis Bell 20811

Director, North Texas Chapter

BCA

Good Morning All: I have been following this thread and find it is representative of much of the discussion that has taken place in the past several years. I cannot add much without repeating what has already been said except for several things.

First, the positive comments were appreciated and the willingness to accept new ideas, cars and people into the BCA. Negative thinking is a habit which is hard to break and thank goodness most people bring to mind all their positive thoughts first and not last. We are doomed if we are not able to accommodate change and new ideas, cars and people.

Second, many of those who some frown on actually are members who have been with us for a while but are themselves changing. For example, many wives want AC and more comfort if they are going to accompany their husband to a BCA event. These people still own cars in the 40's and 50's, or earlier, but now have acquired a 60's or 70's car to drive longer distances. Why frown at them and be negative? They are still valued members and we have to respect their individual choices. I agree we should not erode the 400 point system with lifting deductions for halogen headlights etc. However, we need to provide a venue for those who elect to have them while not creating a modified vehicle. Halogen headlights and radial tires do not make a modified vehicle. It is for this reason we created the Driver Class and it will, in my opinion, provide a venue for hundreds of members who otherwise will lose interest and not continue to be active. It will bring cars out of the garage which would otherwise continue to be largly undriven and unimproved to again be road worthy. Nevertheless, we will continue to hear from those who want to be critical of creating new venues for participation. Luckily for the BCA they have been in the minority and we are moving forward with new ideas and trying to address the problems of membership and participation. My primary interest is the straight eight Buicks and earlier, of which I have owned several dozen. Yet, I realize others have different interests and this is only natural. We must make room for everyone and welcome them without negative comments or we may fail completely. We have to make people feel welcome of they will not remain amoung us. Thanks, Patrick W. Brooks, President, BCA

all true, all we can do is wait and see if your "vision" of the BCA will be a positive one.

You've started a "three front war", by moving the BCA in the MD direction, let's see how the BCA base members holds up,(like me.) I don't remember if the general membership had a vote to approve this action.

Tommy, (or whatever your name is)

Please take a deep breath and refer to your nearest calendar. It is nearly 2005, and the world has changed a bit.

I've been a HAPPY member of the BCA since 1986, and have served 5 years on the BCA Board of Directors. During that time I've listened to just about every negative person who could utter a word, but YOU take the cake!

PLEASE come to Batavia, NY in July, 2005. And PLEASE find and introduce yourself to me. I am absolutely DYING to see the body that goes with the mouth!

Merry Christmas,

Bob Leets

Flint, MI

Willis,

As always, nice post. FYI, the National Meet held in Flint in 1988, which was Buick's 85th Anniversary, was titled "Buick Homecoming 1988".

All the members of the Buicktown Chapter feel our fellow BCA members are experiencing a "homecoming" when they return to Flint, regardless of the departure of Buick manufacturing/management facilities in our town.

Any time you're in Flint, you (as a Buick lover) are "home"!

Merry Christmas,

Bob Leets

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">all true, all we can do is wait and see if your "vision" of the BCA will be a positive one.

You've started a "three front war", by moving the BCA in the MD direction, let's see how the BCA base members holds up,(like me.) I don't remember if the general membership had a vote to approve this action. </div></div>

Pete S AKA Tommy - what you forget is that the BCA membership votes on the Board of Directors - they vote for the people they feel will lead or guide the Club in the direction or ways that are needed to keep the club vibrant and up to date. It works just like in America - we vote for the leaders, they guide the country and make the changes needed to keep the country going forward. Maybe you should channel your energy into getting more older Buicks to show up at regional and national meets instead of degrading those that do but not in a car that suits your fancy.

yes, Bob and there lies the central issue, my posts are not negitive, just not your point of view.

Your willingness to abandon the BCA base, to cater to the MD people is a cry of desperation.

Sadly, few will voice an opinion with such dictatorial board members.(past or present)

So, did the BCA put this issue to a membership vote, or just board approval? Just wondering? When did this vote pass?

Bob, am I allowed to ask these questions?

That Poodle is a Man Eater!

ahh you beat me to it...

Adam,

That is a very hansom photo of Ed Kiel, no wonder you keep posting it.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> all we can do is wait and see if your "vision" of the BCA will be a positive one </div></div>

I thought we are all in this club to be active and *make* it work. If your waiting for the club to do something maybe your in the wrong club.

Maybe you need to run for the board on your platform and see just how many members agree with your point of view!! Heck I'll nominate you so you can run just to see if you get voted in on that platform and I don't even come close to agreement with you on this issue (and would not vote for you)!

I feel the BCA is the BUICK Club of America and that includes *all* buicks, not just those that are *exactly* as they come from the factory, or pre war, or anything else for that matter. They are all just Buicks. IMHO the board *is* acting in the interest of the majority of the members. It's about enjoying the *people* and their *Buicks*. Not some stodgy point system, super modifieds, kustoms, drivers, popularity contests, etc, those are all just the extras for the folks that enjoy those areas. Myself I think the BCA should add some emphasis on non-judged Buicks at the nationals as well. Too many people view it as a judging only event...it should not be that way...we should enjoy the people and the Buicks we love.

Well, since we're on the subject of candid member photos and streed rods...

This is Pete Nathan's 35 - Buick powered!! (340ci) Daily driver

You can even see a bit of Mimi

And Paul Meyer in the background with his Harley Earl Pimp get-up...

I should probably be in bed instead of typing this, but here goes.

As a caution, some of you might consider this heresy...consider yourself warned.

I am in my mid-thirties, have a family, and own 5 Buicks. I owned all these cars before joining the BCA at the prompting of Bruce Andren to come to Flint for the Centennial. One of the reasons I joined was to be able to get technical support which I can't get in my local club because there just isn't the Buick expertise (although there are a few Buicks / Buick nuts in the club too). Technical advisors like Bruce, who helped me get my Special on the road, are a huge benefit to members. As well, the Bugle, dedicated to Buicks to feed my thirst for Buick knowledge with tempting ads and information is also a huge positive, especially for those of us who have to drive 8 hours if we ever hope to attend a chapter meeting.

Anyway, I see some similarities between some of the "old guard" and my father. Pete P. stated we don't want to alienate these folks, but if they are so intolerant, perhaps the BCA doesn't need them. I'm not suggesting anyone be drummed out of the club, but if they are annoyed that there are radials on my cars or that I put dual exhaust on my Wildcat (not original, but available as an option), then I don't think I have a lot in common with them other than owning Buicks.

My 2 older children were to participate in the Buick and its Parts program in Flint, but we couldn't find it, so they missed out. Hopefully all 3 can participate in Rochester.

I bought my first car in my early 20s. At that age, it was about going fast. However, I've always liked uniqueness, so it was an AMC Javelin AMX. A while later, I sold that to finance the purchase of the '66 Wildcat. Still a go fast car. I have been a member of local clubs for over 10 years now. One thing I have gained from them is an appreciation of the older vehicles and the necessity for preserving automotive history. Hence, the Wildcat is currently the newest in the fleet.

So, from my experience, keep the excellent technical side of things, attract the younger generation with the go fast cars (late 60s/early 70s / more recent turbo stuff). They'll grow an appreciation for the older stuff. Have excellent communication / maps / whatever at the meets so the people who are there for the first time don't feel lost. I think that is pretty much the key.

BTW, my 4 (soon to be 5) year old son thinks the thing to say when giving you a thumbs up is "Buick". I think that started with either cool or cool Buick when we were at shows and he has just retained the Buick.

If I had to purchase 2 "old" Buicks tomorrow, they would be a 36/37 open car (hydraulic brakes with great styling) and a '76 pace car replica to get modern conveniences like seat belts. As I approach mid-life crisis, I might consider one of those turbo cars (OK, I'm already considering it) too.

Well, this seems to have been all over the place...time for bed.

This issue of 'PROMOTING' our hobby to more youth to increase the membership with our 'future' was brought up at two different car clubs that I belong to.

Both clubs see the writing on the wall and if we don't act now, we know it doesn't look good.

One club recently had our annual car show and had hundreds of dash plaques left over. I suggested we add small labels to the plaques with our local club website and phone number(s) of club contacts. I did this and keep 5 of them in my wallet. When I'm out cruising in my '53 and people stop to ask questions about it or if I see another classic owner I hand these plaques out to potential new members ESPECIALLY --YOUNG-- ONES.

It's paid off. I had -3- new members join our club shortly after we started handing out these plaques with our club information on them.

(BTW...'young' is anyone under 40 for this post).

Easy to talk up the 'issue' here but to go out and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT is another thing.

PROMOTE....PROMOTE.....PROMOTE (think YOUNG)

Start having car shows at colleges around the country....they aren't going to come to you, YOU GO TO THEM (in their face is good).

Another observation I made at the Back To The 50s show at the Minnesota State Fair grounds last Summer. As I walked around the 10,500+ classic vehicles I stood back to watch how the young people reacted to different models. You know what I'm going to say here. Most of them (80%+) went right to the hot rods, muscle cars. Yes, the shiny chrome of the 1920-1940s 'true classic' cars attracted them but the sound of a souped-up engine coming down the street soon turned their heads and they were like little puppies following it until it parked. The young people pulling into the show all had fantastic vehicles but they were 'tweaked' to what they liked..you know the "M word". I was okay with it because I was impressed to see the number of young kids (age 20-25+) driving in with their classic cars and trucks filled with friends who were just as excited to be part of this event.

I'm with a few other posts here in saying that I stop looking at any car made after 1959. But if you want to attract younger members our club has to change-with-the-flow (interests) and include.....OMG....I'm going to type the M-word...MODIFIED cars. There, I said it

Every car show I go to and I walk up to the young guys standing next to their green metallic sparklin', street-huggin 'ride' with an engine sticking out of the hood and I ask one question (to make my DIG in the nicest way possible)...

"Did you 'save' this car from some farmers field or find it in a scrapyard?"

If they say 'NO' I just walk away and my point is made.

So get out and 'TALK-THE-TALK' to the young people in your lives and who stop to talk to you about your ride. Get the message (flyers, letters) out at colleges and high schools about car shows or events in your area. NOTE...DON'T INVITE THEM TO YOUR MEETINGS. Invite them to shows or cruise nights or better yet tell them to bring their car or have them ride along in your car on a club day-trip with 10+ other classics. We have done this and they joined. Meetings bore young people (and me) all to hell.

Ok...I'm stepping off my soap box (for now).

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I'm with a few other posts here in saying that I stop looking at any car made after 1959. But if you want to attract younger members our club has to change-with-the-flow (interests) and include.....OMG....I'm going to type the M-word...MODIFIED cars. There, I said it

Every car show I go to and I walk up to the young guys standing next to their green metallic sparklin', street-huggin 'ride' with an engine sticking out of the hood and I ask one question (to make my DIG in the nicest way possible)...

"Did you 'save' this car from some farmers field or find it in a scrapyard?"

If they say 'NO' I just walk away and my point is made.

</div></div>

This is the type of attitude that keeps young and old hobbyists alike from joining National Clubs - narrow minded, elitist, attitudes that think they can control what hobbyists do with there own property.

Well, I am 28 (soon to be 29 - then I quit counting ) and love the old Buicks. I joined here nearly 4 years ago and still this it is as great as it was 4 years ago. I will post here as long as it is here. It is by far one of the best forums/clubs I have been on. I have owned several different makes of cars over the years and have been on several automotive forums and while some are very active, with a lot of posts, it seems like the people here get along much better. Everyone here is interested in helping other people and passing along information- which is one thing that makes this site so great. The only thing I regret is selling my 72' Buick Electra. I want in back!

This bloody thread is too long to read all of it but I will throw my half cent in anyway.

I think folks that modify Buicks are just fine and the quality of the work they do is often excellent. But I did not join this club 25 years ago to learn how to build street rods. I joined the club to learn about the history of the marque and to find parts and information I needed to preserve my Buicks. And to meet others with similar interests. I consider street rodding an entirely different hobby from what I do, just like drag racing, demo derbys or "investment grade" collecting or whatever.

I don't expect everyone in the club to think alike, and I am not too bothered by modifieds or drag racers being a part of the club. But I am disturbed by the notion that the club will be "saved" by admitting modifieds or that street rods hold the key to bringing youth back into the club. I submit that if you are really successful in attracting rods into the club, you will eventually drive out those who have a primary interest in preservation. Maybe you don't think that's a problem, but I find it hard to imagine a very viable Buick club based mainly on street rods. Many rods have very little Buick content and as time marches on, you will see less and less Buick content. This is because the vendors that supply the rod industry are hardly aimed at modifying original Buick components. It seems to me that rodding is primarily a Chevrolet industry.

This club will be saved by continuing to sponsor great events, a good magazine, and making what the club stands for clear. As the membership ages, I do not think the BCA will die. Younger grandchildren or greatgrandchildren will inherit many of these older Buicks and will be delighted to find a club that offers information and companionship to those trying to fix and preserve these cars.

Bill

NM

Well, with all due respect, there IS the Buick Street Rod Association. Might not be nearly as big as other street rod or street machine organizations (which are "open" clubs), but it's still around.

Regardless of what tack the BCA administration takes, for the BCA (or ANY similar group) to survive, there has to be an effective marketing plan in place. Marketing a car club? Yep! Just as viable as selling gasoline or tires. People HAVE to know you exist and then you have to be able to motivate them to join the group. If they join and then decline to renew their membership the next year, then somebody needs to find out WHY they did not rejoin. If you determine it was "changing interests" or family issues, that's not too bad, but if you discover that them and your group was not a "good fit" (for whatever reason), then you can use that knowledge to watch for trends of others that similarly decline to rejoin. This "feedback loop trend analysis" can be important for younger organizations, but can help more established organizations to "bend" a little or at least reconsider their particular orientation.

There are some Buick enthusiasts (substitute whatever other brand of vehicle also, as this is not "Buick specific") that will feel more comfortable in non-BCA type organizations than in the BCA. This is a given. But if there might be some underlying reason they are not BCA members (even to not knowing the BCA exists!), then finding out what that reason is could be of benefit in the long run.

In the "other" club I have been a member of since the middle 1980s, which is a local, free-standing club for Mopar vehicles, when that club was started, there were the national car clubs that "recognized" ALL vehicles built by a particular manufactuer plus hot rod clubs, custom car clubs, muscle car clubs, and antique car clubs. It was a cinch that the antique car clubs did not have too many people younger than 50 years old in them. The national car clubs were supposed to be the "umbrella" club for ALL of the manufacturer's vehicles and had a more middle-aged membership. But if you go to an indoor car show or any cruise night, the non-original cars are the ones they do gravitate toward.

In the case of our Mopar club, we accepted ANYBODY that was a Mopar enthusiast. One of our associated clubs nearby had taken a "muscle car" approach and we heard about that when our people were asked if we were a muscle car club. The answer was that many of our members had cars like that, but we also had members that had original cars and such too. We encouraged the owernship of ANY Mopar of ANY year and that orientation gave us some of the best and most diverse annual shows of ANY club around. Having newer vehicles in the show field also made our dealeship sponsors feel good about the whole deal too! Not to mention giving spectators a much better show than just original or just antique or single whatever, but everything that had a Mopar engine in it. Everybody had something of interest to look at and that just made everything better--period. There were some classes that were larger than others, but the key was the total diversity that led potential members to get excited about the whole gammut of the Mopar hobby instead of just seeing restored '40s cars (for example). When you cultivate and celebrate diversity as we did, it just flat worked and everybody had fun.

Sure, there were some members that had other interests than some of our other members, but it was the huge knowledge base in the club in so many areas of the car hobby that was so outstanding. There were some personality conflicts, every so often, but we lived through those times. With consistently over 100+ members, there were plenty of people to find somebody to go to a race or show or cruise with. Some members came, went off for a while (for various reasons), and then returned later--at which time we welcomed them back.

As a club officer, I started a unique judging and classification format for our shows, plus the "If it's a Mopar or has a Mopar engine, we'll find a place for it on the show field" orientation. The WORST thing you can do is tell somebody (that's new to the hobby in your brand of car) is that you don't recognize THEIR car in your club for whatever reason (too new, wrong type, not original) . . . unless . . . the particular specialization is part of the club's name. It would be reasonable to expect to see "antiques" in the AACA or a "professional car" club to have limosines or ambulances or hearses in their events, but unless the club's name specifies that specialization, the general public perceives (and rightfully so) that you recognize ALL of a particular brand of car and that they can bring THEIR car of that brand to any of the club's shows and be able to show it--period.

I highly suspect that allowing "not-as-produced" Buicks (of whatever form) into the BCA's natinonal events will lead to the ruin of the club (although some might claim that!). But as in any business venture, broadening the "customer base" is always a good thing that will lead to greater long-term viability for the enterprise. I also highly suspect that these national show events will not be suddenly overrun with "not-as-produced" Buicks either, but just as in Flint, seeing those older Buicks with air bagged suspensions and some custom touches to them looked really neat and made for a more rounded-out exposition of ALL Buicks.

The "as produced" or "not-as-produced" discussions can go on until everybody's running on "fumes", but the real issue is one of marketing the BCA (as an umbrella Buick organization) to those who might not currently be members--period. To put restrictions on who we motivate to join (and what vehicles are "recognized") will do more harm in the long run than having "not-as-produced" vehicles on the national meet show fields. Sure, it will make for a larger and more diverse "circus" each year, but larger and more diverse events (if you look at the national meets as a marketing tool for the whole Buick hobby) should result in more members too.

If the "as produced" enthusiasts are afraid of the "not-as-produced" enthusiasts "stealing their thunder", then maybe the former group needs to get their cars in gear and headed toward ALL national meets to show that they are still around too? Don't just go to the national meets in your immediate area, but the ones across the country from where you live. Put those Buicks on the road for all to see (and if they are not completely road worthy, make then so, or spend the money you didn't spend on fixing them to be that way into a suitable tow vehicle and trailer). Bring the spouses, significant others, or friends. Bring the rest of the family. Bring the grandkids too.

Key thing is that everybody have fun! Existing BCA members can be the best (and least expensive) marketing tools for getting new members (of any age) into the oranization. Just don't tell anybody that their Buick "doesn't count" as it might not be what you might like or perceive the BCA is not oriented toward. NOBODY likes for "the door to be slammed in their face" for any reason, so unless the BCA membership votes to change the name of the BCA to "The Antique Buick Club of America" or "The As-Produced Buick Club of America", why slam any doors?

Everybody needs to feel proud of owing a Buick (or any other marque of vehicle), regardless of the vehicle's age, and they also should be welcomed into the BCA (or similar group) with open arms and show fields for those vehicles. From my experiences and observations, to do anything else (in an umbrella-type club situation) puts limits on future growth of the organization.

The BCA might not meet the needs of all Buick enthusiasts per se, for various reasons, but that does not mean that it could meet the needs of more of these Buick enthusiasts with just a little more effort. Nothing's going to happen overnight, but starting to head in particular directions (which might be different than current destinations) can be orchestrated now. The "journey" has begun, we just need to make sure it's a successful trip!

Enjoy!

Willis Bell 20811

Director, North Texas Chapter

BCA

Gene you have "hit the nail on the head", when Buick makes some cars that compare with the international market (mostly Japan) in both quality and perfomance then we will see the younger crowd, and maybe some of us older citizens (I'm 73), become interested in buying a Buick. I'm hoping that Buick will make quality performance car soon,(think Velite Roadster, but change the name to something American) so I can buy one. But they better hurry up as far as I'm concerned or I'll go buy another brand that catches my fancy.

How about bringing back the Riviera name? I would buy one if it had power and style as of old, but to modern design.

John

That name would work for me! But I would prefer a more retro-look than the last Riviera. The design of the last one did not hold a candle to the look of the 1st generation Riviera's.