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at a loss with the V12


48LCCOUPE

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All together, tight, turns slow even with 12 volts applied just after rubbing vaseline on the paddles and yelling CLEAR! Turns good without plugs but friend can cover up just four holes two on each side and slow the rotation Dramatically. Starter rebuilt by me, then by professional start/alt shop. Can't get spark to the plugs either (using 6 volt battery hot-wired to the coil)and on the second coil so far to try and rule that out.

I would really like to figure out the slow turning over. Wish I couuld quantify that better for you. try to invision the dampner turning to one thousand one, one thousand two, one thousand three..each to represent one revolution and that's with 12 volts. With plugs removed, quick count 1,2,3,4...

Rods fitted to crank, short block assembled by highly qualified machinist, heads trued (not to much), just at a loss.

Dave confused.gif

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dear Dave,CHECK out those grounds,got one from the head to the chassis?diz laugh.gif </div></div>

no, have one from positive post of battery to head. Jumping across the solenoid as starter button seems to be missing in inaction, and hotwiring coil because ignition switch tho hot on the constant side does not transfer power to the switchable side when key is turned on.

I should run ground from head to frame? or body? used to run one from block to body on other cars for proper operation of guages and stuff. Rambling now, should move along. grin.gif

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Hey Dave, something is really wrong here, as Diz says, first make sure your engine and body are all grounded together, there is usually a braided ground strap that runs from the back of the engine up to the firewall, and then the battery is grounded to a head bolt on the engine, "professionally rebuilt" starter??? Well let's hope so, sounds like a classic "draggy starter" problem here, and with the plugs out of the engine, and a good hot 6 volt battery it should be turning over very rapidly, if it isn't, go back to that, and get another opinion, the absence of juice to the distributor is usually attributable to the starter requiring too much, one check for this would be to try it with the ignition on with the plugs out, and see if you get spark out the plug wires then, if you do, the odds go way up the starter is the bad guy here, keep us informed. remember the old radio show "I love a Mystery"?? Rolf

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You may want to consider sending the distributor to Jake Fleming for a overhaul. The points are probably cruded over and need to be carefully filed and reset. He can also check out the coil and synchronize the points. He's very reasonable. He got my '46 distributor in top shape and the engine starts immediately. You want to be careful about applying too much voltage to the coil.

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Guest imported_V12Bill

Dave, Just got a newly rebuilt started and at fdirst I had the same problem. It turned out to be #1 a weak battery. Put the battery charger on while I cranked it over. #2 a bad starter solenoid . #3 dirty /loose battery cables. #4 a dirty carburator. #5 a sticky fuel pump push rod that stayed up. Other than that I didn't have any trouble starting the engine up. Just remember that there are two basics to starting any engine. It must get fuel and it must have spark at the correct time. This may sound over simplicating the problem, but most people try to over state what the problem is. Remember the KISS of every problem. Keep It Simple Stupid. No problem is near as bad as you think it is.

Bill

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V12Bill, fuel, air and spark and you got yourself a fire!

No worries about over simplification, I have looked at

most of these suggestions but still want to hear what others are thinking

eh? confused.gif (Canadian outburst, sorry)

Here's an added tid bit...the engine turns over better when jumping the solenoid

then when putting power directly to the starter via jumper cables / ground.

That throws me a bit. have the large cables, worse for wear.

solenoid clicks like a banshee (however that is), battery new and charged.Not too worried about the fuel pump and carb at this point, would like the engine to spin and the sparkplugs spark. I did intend on sending the dist/coil to Jake Flemming but I would at least like to hear Her cough first, even if I haver to pour a bunch of gas down the carb and light her off like a rocket with a long wooden match (about a 10 footer). I'll get a new solenoid tommorrow just to say I did something, then try to work thru the problem.

thanks, Dave

p.s. my problems are always worse than I think they are Bill frown.gifgrin.gif

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Hey Dave, while at the parts store invest a couple of bucks in a aerosol can of starting fluid, much safer and better than gas down the carb, you probally won't believe me, but some of the others I think will back me up on this one, Rolf

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Removed the starter and looked it over, took it back to the starter rebuild place and they came up with the thought that the starter is fine, but it has the wrong drive. This conclusion is due to marks that indicate it was going to far inward and jamming in the ring gear. It would get stuck from time to time, and I would bar the engine over until it let go. Well they were trying to figure out what drive I need (I will call them tommorrow and tell them that Lincoln calls out a 5EH11350 for the '48.

Diz 2 quickies: my ex-wife borrowed her fathers mercedes while in high school, and to be sure to stay in his favor, before returning it filled it with gas and oil,,,,I mean filled it with oil to the top of the oil fill in the valve cover. Car never recovered.

: When I worked at Freightliner of Portland @ 1977 78, we took on the Volvo Diesel Truck franchise. First cold days, untrained how to start with glow plug type manifold preheaters, spray some starting fluid in the air intake, turn on the key and find that the Volvo had exposed electric coils in the intake manifold that fired up with the key turned to the on position in cold weather to preheat incoming air--the explosion removed the manifold like a pro.

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Guest imported_V12Bill

Dave, If you have a 48 starter and drive , it may be difficult to find a replacement drive assembly. A Ford starter 4l - 48 is easier to come by and is an exact replacement for 4l - 47 Lincolns and will fit your 48 pan and flywheel.

Bill

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Wow, Dave, please let us know the results of checking out Gary's tip, that is a troublesome part that we have talked of before on this site, and if it is indeed available for that kind of modest price, it would be of real benefit, Rolf

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I just checked out that part number I gave on my last post. It should have a space between the BK and the number or it won't show up.

Napa part No. BK 6561093

Will bring it up.

Sorry about that.

Gary blush.gif

PS

Digging a little deeper my 1950 NAPA catalogue shows a Balkamp #BL-10F starter drive fits 1932 to 1950 (as late as this book goes) Ford/Merc car and truck V8 and also 1936 to 1949 Lincoln - Zephyr. Manufacturers # B-11350

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I hope NAPA is taking into account that the '48 lincoln drive is totally distinct from the earlier Ford unit, and that both were used later than 1948, but will not interchange without changing the flywheels, have not as yet heard a clearly defined explanation of the problem, but some one said Lincoln changed it because of complaints about the sound of the Ford starter drive on the Lincolns?? Never before heard of Ford giving a damn about complaints from consumers, but???? Rolf

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My illustrious chassis parts catalog (see CBOZ) says the drive for 1947-48 Lincoln Continental is Ford # 5EH11350. There was another drive for 1946-1947,

don't know where the split in 1947 occurred. I think the danger is that 11350 is like a base number and the 5EH becomes VERY important.

confused.gifDave

If there is too much confusion, I have a friend with a donor car that I have agreed to purchase the remains of the engine when He is thru, I will run to said car with wrenches in hand and release the imprisoned starter. grin.gif

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Guest imported_V12Bill

Dave, Yes the 5EH is important. It means that the part is post war, the 5 standing for l945. The earlier part number is B ll350 which started in l932 and was used up until l947. The change over date was probably April l947 when the early 47's lost their 46 parts and became late 47's with 48 parts. I don't think the 5EH part will fit the earlier starter and vice versa. tongue.gif

Bill tongue.gif

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dave, Yes the 5EH is important. It means that the part is post war, the 5 standing for l945. The earlier part number is B ll350 which started in l932 and was used up until l947. The change over date was probably April l947 when the early 47's lost their 46 parts and became late 47's with 48 parts. I don't think the 5EH part will fit the earlier starter and vice versa. tongue.gif

Bill tongue.gif </div></div>

Which would probably make null and void, Gary's research as follows:

"Digging a little deeper my 1950 NAPA catalogue shows a Balkamp #BL-10F starter drive fits 1932 to 1950 (as late as this book goes) Ford/Merc car and truck V8 and also 1936 to 1949 Lincoln - Zephyr. Manufacturers # <span style="font-weight: bold">B-11350</span> "

oh well it's the effort I appreciate, and I really do. Thank You

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Oh You Guys!! Continue to be confused and speculate about the problem, and have a lot of fun, but when you want to know the answer, turn to pages 180 and 181 in the Chassis parts Catalog where they even have pictures of the early and late starter drives, they are very different, and the early one pre '47 is a model A Ford unit, but that's OK, refuse to look at the facts, just like some political types, it is the American Way, Rolf

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Oh well, I tried confused.gif

My book does show a different drive for 1947 starter #5EH-11001B. It's a Balkamp BL-9X spec, (manuf. #29B-11350) which also was used on 1948 to 1950

337 145 HP Ford truck engine.

It gets more confusing all the time.

Gary

BTW Rolf,

I was born and raised in the Watsonville area. Haven't been back there since '75. I miss the old Boardwalk more than anything else. Had a lot of good times there in the 60s, what I remember of them!

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh You Guys!! Continue to be confused and speculate about the problem, and have a lot of fun, but when you want to know the answer, turn to pages 180 and 181 in the Chassis parts Catalog where they even have pictures of the early and late starter drives, they are very different, and the early one pre '47 is a model A Ford unit, but that's OK, refuse to look at the facts, just like some political types, it is the American Way, Rolf </div></div>

Rolf, please never and I mean NEVER try to confuse us with the facts! If people like you were around Moses would have wandered for only about 6 months and then the whole story would be screwed up!

Theres Rolf and his buddies in the corner with their Rand McNally 1295 B.C. version and a compass along with the chassis parts manual for an egyptian classic 1382 B.C. phaeton. Geeeeeezzzzz wink.gifcool.gif

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Good to know Gary, of course that 337 engine was also used in '49-'51 Lincolns, as well as the big trucks, and parts for them are almost as hard to find as the V-12's even though they are newer, I too lived in Aromas, Watsonville, on Amnesti Road, and of late Santa Cruz, truly the best climate in the whole world, first moved to Carmel Valley in 1969, truly golden times!! Rolf

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on other thing to check is if you have a 2 pole or a 4 pole starter, one of my packards was slow turning, and when i pulled the starter apart found it only had 2 poles, put in a 4 pole and it turns a lot faster. Another thing that could be part of the problem is the motor is too tight, as it was just rebuilt. My PAckard engine would not turn ower fast enough off 6V till i had about a half hour of running time on it. As long as you have a good connection to the block and starter dont worry about the body grounds as yet, and even use a 12v coil off the 12v battery just hot wire it in but make sure you have a good hot spark. Check the points with a test light and use the test light as you tempory timing light to see when the points open while turning the motor over by hand and checking the timing marks.

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Please Dave, get a new 5EH starter drive and try it, if it doesn't work, please start a new thread, this one takes way to long to load anymore. OK?? Rolf </div></div>

O.K. just got back from the starter repair shop, they have installed a different drive, hopefully the correct one. I will start a new thread as Rolf has requested telling everyone how things worked out. I am going out tommorrow to get the started off the donor V12 and will match what it has with what I now have. I believe it is a 48 as well. Thanks all, new thread will probably be : <span style="font-weight: bold">at a gain with V12 </span> grin.gif

David

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