One of those days

I am sure all of you can identify with my morning, so thought I would share it with you. I bought a rebuilt Columbia Two-speed that is being delivered today. I had it shipped to the shop that does a lot of my mechanical work for me. They even rebuilt my V-12. At the same time they are going to put the overdrive in, they are also going to drop the gas tank and fix a small leak. Hence, even though my gas gauge was heading toward empty, I didn't fill up because I didn't want them to have a lot of gas to drain. I figured I had at least a gallon,. Anyway, got the old girl fired up, stopped and picked up a USA Today and headed down our bumpy city streets toward the post office. Ran out of gas as I cruised into the post office. As I got out, I noted that my front passenger's hubcap was missing. Called the shop on my cell and they brought a couple of gallons of gas, but after filling, the car flooded and the battery quickly drained. Couldn't jump her because we didn't have a six volt. So we removed the battery to charge it. Yet before we took it to the shop to charge, we went looking for the hubcap. Found it in the middle of a vacant lot about a half mile from where I had picked up my paper. Over the years I have found that thisto be an experience that goes with having vintage iron. In fact, instead of being mad, I am laughing about it all hitting at once.

Ace

Sorry to hear of your travails Ace, was your hubcap OK, undamaged?? You can safely jump a 6V system with a 12V for long enough to get it running with impunity, once it is running of course remove the jumpers, because even with being fortunate enough to have Jake Fleming, we don't want to strain our coils, hope your columbia is a great success, is it the type with the Ford center section?? Rolf

Aren't old cars fun!!! Been there done that. Don't want to go back. You can jump your STARTER with 12 volts. Next time use a jumper directly to the starter, with the + side on ground touch the - to the starter terminal. It turns over faster and doesn't put 12 volts to your battery or points and coil. Be certain that car is out of gear, ignition is on and you have one hand free to operate throttle on carb.

Bill

The unit came out of 38 Zephyr. As it is not here yet, I can't tell you exactly what it looks like. It was rebuilt several years ago by Les Keeton and then never reinstalled. I got it for a good price, it looked good in all the photos I studied, it comes with cables, etc. Let's hope it is in great shape. I thought it was worth the chance.

Thanks for the information on the jumping. I have jumped with 12 to 6 before, but was a bit shy in this case. Never done it to a positive ground and didn't what kind of damage I could do. Hope I never have to worry about jumping again, but I figure I will.

Ace

Hey Ace, I hope I am not the bearer of bad news, but using a '38 rearend for your '37 may not work, '36 and '37 had the Ford style center section, and a different length driveshaft and torque tube, you can make it work, by shortening the driveshaft and torque tube, on the '38, but you will have to deal with the wrath of a '38-'41 owner who can use that Columbia as is, Rolf

Rolf,

I will make note of that. The unit was just delivered. I will go out and look at it in the morning. I want the Columbia, so if we have to cut and shorten to make it work, we will. The O86H is the number on the unit.

Ace

OK, Ace, let's hope against hope, but you can tell real quick by measuring your overall driveshaft lengths on both rearends, and the tread width, good luck, if it gets down to altering the driveshaft, let me know, there are some tricks, You are dealing with two different types of rearends, the '37 is a conventional '35 Ford, the '38 is '38 to '48 Lincoln, a hypoid unit with a totally different shape than your '37, Rolf

Hello Ace and Rolf -

I'm doing the same thing Ace is. After talking with George Trickett and confirming with a Columbia parts manual (yes, Rolf, I ponied up the money for the manuals as you have rightly suggested!), the Columbia, from the pumpkin to the right rear passenger wheel, is essentially the same for the '37 & '38, except of course for the speedo cable routing. It's, in effect, a bolt-on.

PS -- I briefly thought about putting the entire rear axle from the '38 donor in my car and not removing the Columbia from it, but as you know, the driveshaft would have sat too low since it enters lower in the '38-'48 hypoid styles.

Well Cece, I sincerely hope you are right for Ace's sake, but I have also heard somewhere that there is a 2" difference in WB between '37 and '38, and they are really very different, but prove me wrong, I will be gratified for both of you guy's sake, Rolf

Hey Ace & Rolf -

My understanding is that the '38s had a 3-inch longer wheelbase, but not a wider one (didn't we already determine somewhere that that '38s and '37s shared the same front axle?). The '38 radius I have is 3 inches longer than my '37s, which appears to be where Ford made up the difference. When I get a chance, I'll measure just to be sure. Or we can wait until Ace starts screaming

Cecil,

We are going to get the car on a lift and measure this afternoon. I am not worried about width, but am concerned about the drive shaft and torque tube. I figure that I will have to find and use those off a 38 up, but we will see. I do have all the controls, cables, etc, so the stuff that is hard to get is there. If I have to use a later model drive shaft and tube, I figure Merv will have one.

Ace

Ok I fear we are losing sight of what is happening here, the first report in this thread was that Ace was getting a complete '38 rearend, right? If that is so, he may be able to keep a semblance of originality to the '37, by just using the columbia side of the '38 on the '37 basic rearend, that would be by far the most sanitary way to do it, and would avoid any modification problems. The problem is the book shows a separate Columbia housing for a '37, HB-4010-B, then another for a '38, 86H-4010-B, so the question is, will the '38 Columbia housing work on the '37 rearend, long ago I recall putting a Lincoln center section in a '35 Ford rearend, I used the Ford axles and axle housing, and by mixing and matching finally got it to work, giving me the 4:44 rear end ratio I wanted, as I recall, I had to drill an extra hole in the housing to match the L center section, hopefully in Ace's case, a simple modification like that would be all that was necessary, and the difference in the HB and 86H can be circumvented, Rolf

Rolf,

I think you are correct. We have not put my car on the lift yet, but in talking to Merv Atkins, your approach is one that might work best and be the easiest too. The guy who does the work for me is going to study and all the manuals and the two rear ends before breaking it apart. Then we are going to go with what literally makes the most sense.

If anyone else has any super input, please keep it coming. I would like to get this right the first time.

Ace

I seem to recall in a previous discussion on Columbia rears that they were interchangable '37 to '38. Going to the chassis parts book ( remember that discusion) the axle housing for 36 lists a 36 Ford number. For 37 - 38 it lists a 38 Lincoln number. This part number is superceded by a 39 Lincoln part number, so 39 should interchange with 37 & 38. Get under and measure before you cut and machine to make a force fit.

Bill

wheel base 1937 Zephyr 122 inches

wheel base 1938 Zephyr 125 inches

chassis parts book ? we don't need no stinkin chassis parts book .

Well Dave, that is a clever paraphrase, seems it was in a movie once too, about a lost gold mine or something?? Any way the much mentioned "book" does carefully point out that '37's and'38's have very different differentials, the '36 and '37's use a Ford unit utilising a '35 Ford center section, whereas the '38 uses the Lincoln hypoid center section used in Lincolns only from '38 to '48, so Ace and others when armed with this knowledge, will not be surprised when he and his crew see firsthand, that the '37 and '38 units they have side by side, are very different, but you may still say, "what's the fun of knowing what to expect??" A real tradition down in Florida I guess, Rolf

Rolf, just to be clear, I have a chassis parts book, chiltons manual and authenticity manual for my 1948 LC.

True, they are difficult to read, what with the hanging chads all over the place and the wearing of my 3D glasses making the lines blur and intersect with one another (the spark plug gap is 40 - 50 foot pounds of torque right?)

Dave

Rolf, I have noted that there is a distinct difference between the 37 & 38 differential cases.However, the informfation that I submitted was for the AXLE housings. As you noted your experience with a Lincoln center section that you used in your 35-36 Ford many years ago. If the axle housings are the same 37 -39, there is a good chance that the Columbia housing ( Right Side) will fit. Many times a different part number is used because some other minor part will need to be modified for the major unit (housing) to be used. i.e. modify spring mount or shock mount etc.

Again, measure twice and cut once.

Bill

Guys, would should know how to make this work or if this can work in a semi-easy way by early next week. I will keep you informed. Probably take some pictures as we go along too.

Ace

Hi Bill, that is indeed the most hopeful scenario, I know the bolt pattern is one hole different between the Lincoln and Ford, and hopefully that will be the only difference between the HB '37 4010, and the 86H, '38, and can easily be installed

Rolf, On my 48 I noticed an extra hole at about 4 o'clock on the right side and 8 o"clock on the left side on the axle housings where they bolt to the center section. Is this the extra hole you are referring to? I have no idea why it is there.

Bill

Bill, sadly I performed this exercise back in the mid '60's, and I know there was a lot of mixing and matching to get it to work, but as best I recall the extra holes were on the front side of the housings in the 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock positions, could have plugged the extra holes in the banjo I guess, but elected to drill the housings, and used another bolt on each side, but keep in mind my memory is rather sieve-like these days, so do not inscribe it on plastic and put it in your wallet yet, but I think the important part is that they are very close, and on the Columbia, the book says the left housing or the 4010, is used on both '37 and '38, and if this is indeed the case, Ace should be in like Flynn, let's hope so, Rolf