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Question for someone with '38 Chassis manual


CBoz

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Hello -

Here is a question for someone with a '38 chassis manual handy:

Last summer, I picked up the entire undercarriage from a '38 coupe -- axles, spindles, hubs, torque tube, rear end, etc. I know the '38 shared some parts with my '37, but I don't know exactly which.

Here is what I *do* know:

1. The '38 used a hypoid style differential, which is different from mine, so I can't share that.

2. The '38 has a 3-inch longer wheelbase, and the '38 front radius rod (that big, wishbone shaped thing with the ball on the end that attaches to each side of the front axle) is 3-inches longer than my '37, so I can't use it.

Beyond that, are the remaining pieces interchangeable -- axles, backing plates, etc.? If they are, I can start restoring pieces from the '38 to put on my '37 without having to take the '37s undercarriage out.

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PS -- Hate to place an advertisement like this, but who knows who might need it. I also picked up a good '38 radiator at the same time. It was working fine when taken off the car less than a year ago.

Offers? Interesting trades?

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Yes Cecil, that was the one sold by the widow in Florida who is bound and determined to make a street rod out of, right?? I think just about everything in the '38 is like '39, except the brakes, and surprisingly little is like a '37, there were major changes between the two, engine, transmission rearend etc etc, a $20 investment for a chassis parts catalog from Erle Browne will answer all your interchange questions, good luck, Rolf

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Hey Rolf -

Yes, it's the same person. But looking at these mechanical brakes, old-style synchronizer, etc., not sure she doesn't have the right idea cool.gif

With regard to my question, I guess I need to be clearer. If someone who has a manual were to quickly look and tell me there doesn't look like much overlap at all between the '37 and '38, then I could save the $20. If, on the other hand, there is a smattering of parts with 48, 78, H, and HB prefixes, it would be worth my while.

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OK Cece, I love to talk on this medium, the story is that people in the know can make those archaic mechanical brakes stop the car far smoother and easier than the hydraulic brakes, but the technique is dying with the technicians that could perform it, that was the problem the seller's husband had before he died, couldn't find any of these experts in the south Florida area that could do it, so decided to go street rod, which his widow has sustained, in answer to your other questions, the 48 designation is '35 Ford, 78 is '37 Ford, H is '36 Lincoln Zephyr, HB is '37 Lincoln Zephyr, then it goes 86H '38LZ, 96H '39LZ. 06H '40 LZ, 16H '41 LZ, 26H '42LZ, then 56H '46 Lincoln, 66H, and 76H for the '47 and '48 Lincoln with significant differences, hope that helps, and makes it abundantly clear why you need that manual, Rolf

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Hey Rolf -

I know what the prefixes are (by the way, you forgot "B" wink.gif). Rather, I was curious as to how *much* overlap there was. But you're right, it's a trivial investment to pay the $20.

With regard to the mechanical brakes, it seems to me (and I'll say up-front this is based only on reading about the procedure, not doing it!) that if one is willing to take the time and go back and make adjustments until its right, it *can* be done. The problem is, lots of people simply don't want to tinker with things anymore. And it's not just a generational thing -- I went to the LCOC meeting and was amazed how many owners, many who had owned their cars for *decades*, weren't familiar with the most routine maintenance tasks, such as changing points. Hmmmm.... crazy.gif

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Hey Cecil, I did not include B prefixes because you didn't, they are of course the basic 1932 ford numbers, and there are a few still used in the Zephyrs, but sop what?? I hope you will agree to allow me to disagree with you, I think there is a strong and valid stance for people to take, to make their original old cars as good as they can be, and I only cite the excellent mechanical brakes by hearsay from those that were put in contact with the windshield on an emergency stop in their '38 and earlier Zephyrs, but changing points without the aid of a Sun or Jake Fleming machine on a Lincoln distributor is pure folly, your chances of getting it right are at least 1000 to one, but if you are confident you can do it with your ruler and feeler guage, I say go for it, but don't complain if it doesn't work, otherwise feel free to adapt to a modular sparker, Rolf

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Hey Rolf -

First of all, I'm not picking a fight with *anyone*, but you need to *carefully* read what I asked in my earlier messages -- to wit, how much overlap is there between '38 undercarriage and '37 undercarriage parts. I didn't ask what the prefixes meant, etc. -- I can read these from the front of manuals as well as anyone. SHEESH, you're no better than my students! wink.gif.

Finally, with regard to the points, I see that I wasn't clear. Sorry about that. The owners I was referring to had more modern Continentals (61 & up), where the distributor is sitting there, big as life, right in front of them. I agree with you that the HV-12 distributors are a completely different story.

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"but changing points without the aid of a Sun or Jake Fleming machine on a Lincoln distributor is pure folly, your chances of getting it right are at least 1000 to one,..."

Rolf, where can I find the proper procedure to change and adjust points on the V12? I have seen the ruler, feeler gauge method in the book and it reads like a NASA launch. Can it be done by dwell and adjusted while running? That side adjustment doesn't look like there is too much to work with.

Just being dumb and also changing the subject line a bit.

Dave

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Hey Dave, the guys on this site will always do it their way right or wrong, they have practically made them re-issue Frankie's record, but a good friend who we all know that has a '46 sedan, recently got it running with a Jake Fleming distributor and coil, and he is ecstatic!! Starts immediately, will idle at 300 RPM, has great power, a total winner. Jake built his own version of the old Sun stroboscope machine, that is the only way to get them right on, but being in the LZOC, maybe you finally can re-invent the wheel and do it by the seat of your pants, if it doesn't work, Jake can still salvage it, probally, good luck, Rolf

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Ok Cece, like your students, I was trying to avoid an arduous assignment, starting with the front axle #3010 is as follows, 1936-B3010 (32 Ford), 37-41-96H3010, all the same. 06H3405 Wishbone assy, 38-40, HB 3105 and 06, spindles, 37-38, front brakes are the same, bear a lincoln number used '36-'38, rears use a '34 Ford number same years, there appear to be some intricate differences in the hand brake mechanism, but I fear my old eyes are giving out, know you are the all knowing professor, but I think this book would be the best $20 you ever spent, personal opinion of course, but if I were to do mechanical brakes, I would want every scrap of info possible, Rolf

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Guest imported_V12Bill

Cecil, I hope you got your answer to your satisfaction from Rolf. Just as an add on I looked in my chassis manuel( you DO NEED one) and the brake backing plates are the same for 37 and 38, the front axle is the same, the rear axle shafts are the same. In mid 38 the wheels went from a l0 1/4 " pattern to the 5+" pattern and thus also need different rims and hubcaps.I don't know what other parts you want to exchange, but when your new chassis manuel arrives, you can determine for yourself what will exchange and what will not.

Bill

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Guest imported_V12Bill

Cecil, As to your comments about people who can't answer the simplest questions about their cars, I agree with you. An old car will be nothing but aggravation and a deep money pit if you have to depend on someone to do ALL the repair work for you. It takes the fun out of the hobby not to do your own work and you end up paying someone else to learn how. For starters, a lot of mechanics don't know what points and condensors are. On the other hand I don't know an EGR from a MAP and depend on someone else to maintain my modern Iron.

Bill

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  • 3 weeks later...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Dave, the guys on this site will always do it their way right or wrong, they have practically made them re-issue Frankie's record, but a good friend who we all know that has a '46 sedan, recently got it running with a Jake Fleming distributor and coil, and he is ecstatic!! Starts immediately, will idle at 300 RPM, has great power, a total winner. Jake built his own version of the old Sun stroboscope machine, that is the only way to get them right on, but being in the LZOC, maybe you finally can re-invent the wheel and do it by the seat of your pants, if it doesn't work, Jake can still salvage it, probally, good luck, Rolf </div></div>

Please tell me what a Jake Fleming distributor and coil consists of. Is it a worked over and properly setup stock unit or is there some newer technology employed? Do you send your unit in to be refurbished and set up or as a core? I think I may have smoked my coil using the ever popular fry with 12 volts technique frown.gif I will call Jake this week, just don't want to seem too overly stupid) confused.gif "Stop acting Stupid" "I'm NOT acting" shocked.gif

Thanks guys and gals. Dave

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Hi Dave, the only "magic" Jake uses to my mind, is his way of rebuilding the coils, I have sat and stared at non-functioning LZ coils a lot, with no idea of what to do with them, they seem to be time sensitive, like people, and they get old and die, Jake gives them some sort of transplant, and they are good as new!! His way of synchronising the points is much the way they were always done on the old Ford test set machine, or the Sun distributor machine, naturally the respective units have to be sent to Jake, if you have a spare, it is often a good idea to have him do it too, and you are pretty well set distributor wise, and can move right along, give him a call, good luck, Rolf

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