Battery Charging Problem

I need help on some issues I am having with my 40 LZ sedan in regards to battery charging. The problem is that I cannot keep the battery charged. Ever since I have had the car, the battery has run down as I drive it until it gets to the point where I cannot start it again. This makes driving the car anywhere very difficult because it is so unreliable and you never know if you will get it started again if you shut it off. I've had the car three years and in that time I have had two batteries, rewired the entire car (except for the spark plug harness)had the coil checked by Jake Fleming, and had the generator checked. Everything in the car works (lights, horn, guages,etc) so I believe I have wired it correctly.

I would like to know if anyone can offer some advice. How long does it take to charge these batteries when driving? I can't imagine that when the car was new, it would have rundown the battery just idling but maybe you have to drive so long at a certain speed to keep the charge up.

Also, what is the best six volt battery for these cars?

My 37 can start up over and over again at shows with no seeming battery drain. Even as we rebuilt the engine, it kept enough charge to start things up. According the factory gauge and the extra one charging guage I have on the car, the generator charges very well even at idle. I know little about how the whole system works, but if everything checks out and your generator is charging the way it should, then I would have to figure you have a connection or short in the wiring that is draining the battery. I had a Mustang once that would not charge a battery when the belt was just a little bit loose, but I doubt that this applies in this case, but might be worth a try. I have to believe you have a drain from a connection or an accessory. Also, check your grounding from your battery. You might not have a good ground connection.

Ace

On the best battery, if you want to really show your car in sanctioned shows, then the maker of the battery is important. Check with Cecil, Diz, Phil or any of the guys who are building or have built show cars for the one needed in your car. Mine is just a driver and in the town where I live you pretty much take whatever are one Autozone has. I can't even remember what brand mine is, but it was cheap and it works like a champ.

Ace

I know there is a way to check the power coming back to the battery but I don't know how to do it. I had the generator checked by a local shop that said it was fine but I don't what they did to check it. Do you know how or can you tell me where I can get the tech bulletin/article on how to perform the test?

That's encouraging that your car charges well. I would like to have my car charge like yours! I'll check around to see if I have a drain somewhere. When I bought the car it had the original wiring which had bare spots everywhere. I had the problem then too and thought that rewiring would solve it but it has not. However, rewiring did improve the function of all the guages, lights etc.

Dear Materal,Disconnect the neg. terminal from the battery and watch the terminal as you re-connect it.Do you see any sparks?if so something is drawing from the battery.Process of elimination should direct you to the the source of the problem.Be PATIENT you CAN figure it out.diz

Great advice Diz. I wasted all those words and I could have said it just like you did and made a lot more sense.

Ace

Here's something I tripped over while strolling the internet. The best advice may be at the end. Check to make sure your cells are filled to the right level with acid if new, distilled water if refilling.

Heres what this guy had to say:

First make sure and polarize the generator then with the car running put a

volt meter to the battery with the engine around 1200+ RPM this should give

you about 6.7+ volts, have a friend turn on the headlights that shouldn't

drop the voltage more than 0.2 volts (and no drop in voltage at all is best)

then do the same test at 2400+ RPM this should give you about 7.2 volts and

do the same headlight check and watch for a voltage drop. Then proceed to

what John Paulos recommended "Ground the field wire on the generator, if it

charges like mad it's the regulator, if not, the generator is shot". Next,

disconnect the belt and unhook the wires from the generator turn the pulley

by had to feel for any strange noises, roughness, etc. If that seems to be

ok take a charged 6 volt battery with the generator STILL DISCONNECTED (like

the one in the car)! and using jumper wires connect them to the generator

and then the hot wire to the battery then hold the other cable to the

negative (USE RUBBER GLOVES or make sure your holding insulted wire) and

KEEP EVERYTHING AWAY from the generator and the generator should run like an

electric motor. If it doesn't pass the voltage test or the 'electric motor'

test it likely just the brushes. But don't forget the basics, new battery

or not check the water level of the battery first, a low battery can't hold

a charge for very long. Hope this helps, by the way you don't have to do

every test here if you've found the problem! : )\

Thanks everyone for the advice. I'm going to try these tips and I'll let you know how it turns out!

If you use it for a daily driver like I do mine, switch it over to a one wire alternator, you can get the bracket from vintage ford and any alternator repair shop can build you a one wire 6 volt positive ground alt. also the best battery is the optima 6volt, the run about 120 but last forever. they are small and red so if that bothers you you can get a plastic case to put it in that looks just like the old tar top batteries. if you show it and want the Lincoln script on it a few of the people in the Lincoln club sell them, if you want it to look like an original battery without the Lincoln script and save about $50 check with the packard people, that who I got mine from and nobody has ever known it was a plastic case with another battery inside.

Dear Mr.V12Lincoln,Is anything you have posted going to CORRECT the battery DRAIN problem.Seems to me he could have YOUR entire system on his car and still have a short SOMEWHERE draining his system.The car started and kept the battery charged in 1940 with 6 volts and a generator WHY not in 2003?Lets FIND the problem and CORRECT it.Just my 2-cents.diz

Hi Dizzy, I dont need to say whats already been said, 2 other people wrote and told him how to trace his problem, I was replying to the part where he asked whats the best battery to use. maybe you didnt read his complete message. would you you your Lincoln today as a daily driver with the generator? I found it insufficiant with the brighter headlights, brighter halogen tail lights and the added Brake lights That have been added for safety to make mine an everyday driver. I can see leaving yours all original if it a garage/ trailer queen.

If you cant drive them like they were ment to be driven why have them.

Jack Maye (pandamarie) just my nickle (inflation you know)

Thanks DizzyDale and Jack. I had this notion that I could restore the car to original condition and it would more or less function as it did when it was new. Of course, I haven't even begun to get it that far but I thought that I did do some of the basic repairs that would make the battery/generator system work like it was designed to work. Like DizzyDale said, if it worked when it was new, why won't it work now? I figure there has to be a drain somewhere. Maybe its as simple as the generator is shot and the shop that tested it didn't evaluate it correctly. Whatever the case, I'll start some troubleshooting based on some of your suggestions.

Whoa, easy boys. Now why don't we just relax and put them there coins back in your pockets where'n they belong. Comon, I'll buy ya a drink and we can all be friendly like.

Dear Jack,Did not want to sound mean spirited.I drove my familys 37 Ford Phaeton 2,000 miles one summer before i restored it.Yes,it was a nice pretty original car,6 volts,generator,and NO electric fuel pump.I will do the same with the Zephyr when completed,guess i do not understand the need to UPDATE.I would re-wire the entire car,rebuild all electrical components and let it rip.It is my understanding that there are some 6 volt bulbs that are brighter than others.Worked in '39 NO reason it can not work today.I can not explain the feeling i get when i drive any old iron,i do not want to lose that. diz

You can always rely on me for an opinion on matters like this, so here goes, 1940 has the battery condition gage in the dash doesn't it?? They do not work like an ammeter, and do not indicate whether the system is charging or not, also are you sure you are positive ground? I have often rigged up an ammeter with alligator clips between the battery and solenoid, this will show if the system is charging when the engine is running, and show if there is a discharge when the engine is turned off. Have to side with Diz on this one, converting to an alternator for a 6 volt system seem ridiculous to me, way way overkill, best place to get a good 6 volt battery I think is your local tractor supply, they know what is presently the state of the art. With this auxillary ammeter in place, if a discharge is shown when everything is off, you will have to isolate each wire one by one until you discover the culprit, not much fun I fear, good luck, Rolf

Hey Diz, I didnt take it as a personal attack. Its just my personal belife that if you are going to drive your classic like a new car and you are going to be driving allot more than around your part supply you will need to do some up grades. everything I have done can be undone in just a few minutes. to upgrade to an alternator is cheaper than getting your generator rebuilt and if you show it it only takes 10min. to change it over, the best of both worlds. also there is a guy on the east coast that is taking your old generator and converting them to alternators and you cant tell the difference. I wish I had his address I would have mine converted. I have had allot of old cars, mostly packards that have been all original, and the last one a 48 2dr coupe I put 280,000 miles on and the only change was an alternator due to the price and avalibility of parts to repair the generator.

Take care

Jack

It would be interesting Jack, to take a poll of people who drove with generators instead of alternators, and suffered unreliability because of it, on a humorous note, back in the '50's when I got my first model T Ford, I hooked up the battery which was stone dead, positive ground, because all the 6 volt fords I had were that way, imagine my surprise when an old T guy told me they were negative ground, but the old 6 volt had charged up backwards, and would usually start the T all right, not to belabor the point, but many generator equipped cars went many thousands of trouble free miles with them, Rolf

Just a thought or two to put in here. 12 volt lighting is brighter and safer than 6 volt (even the bright light 6 volt). Tubeless tires have fewer problems than tube type, radials are safer and offer more comfort than bias. 50/50 antifreeze mix is better than creek water for engine cooling. Safety glass is better and safer than plate. The past is great, our old cars are great. For reliability I believe anyone would choose a new model to traverse the continent in less than a week than an older car. Or to drive daily to work and be on time.

The "good ole days" saw a lot more cars on the side of the road with steaming radiators, flat tires, and dead electrical systems than today. If you want them to be authentic AND a daily driver, remember that most daily driver drivers back then were used to breaking down and using spit and baleing wire to get home, not to mention stuffing blankets inside the tire to limp it home.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong, but progress and alternators aren't all bad, and thank God most generator cars with regulators sticking and burning up were also equiped with manual transmisions. "O.K. dear, as soon as we get rolling good, key on, transmission in second and POP the clutch"... "we'll run without the lights unless we see another car coming"..."man, why do you carry water, gas, oil, a tool box, coveralls, rags and three spares in your trunk along with jumper cables and flares? good thing these cars have BIG trunks I guess"