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Synthetic oil in my modern iron or petroleum based?


Guest Boehmke

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Guest imported_Boehmke

I know all you old car nuts also have at least one Modern Iron that's driven also.

I'm wondering when I buy a new Toyota Camery this month, does it really pay to use the synthetic oils that are out now if I plan on keeping this car for at least 15 years. We don't drive much,(3000 miles/year) but we keep cars a long time. Example:I just sold a '72 Ford Maverick I bought new and it had only 133,000 miles. Is there may be a web site that might give advice about how to make this decission.

Hope you folks don't mind answering a New Car question here on the Old Car Forum

Many thanks,

Jim Boehmke

Livermore

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Guest DeSoto Frank

Supposedly the synthetics are less prone to crankcase dilution and other nasty things that happen with mineral-oils....

It's a good idea to make sure that whatever oil you're using meets the manufacturers MINIMUM requirements, and that no warranties will be voided by using synthetic oil. Check you owner's manual...

That said....

If you're starting with a squeaky-clean new car, it can't hurt, can it?

If you're driving less than 3,000 miles a year, it sounds like you might be making "short trips" - less than ten miles one way- which means the engine, and the oil in particular never get "hot" - hot enough to "boil-off" the sulphur compounds and heavy-end gasoline that gets by the rings in a cold engine and all contribute high acidity in the oil, which is somewhat off-set by the detergents, but still attack the insides of your engine, hastening it's demise...this is qualified as "severe service" by most automotive engineers....

There's a great book called "Drive It Forever", by a Robert Sikorsky (?) - my copy is a small paper-back with a picture of a '58 Mercury on the cover- his book discusses this whole matter in thorough detail....a great read.

A friend of mine's father had a 1977 Ford LTD Brougham, with a 351 Windsor V-8.

"Dad" bought the car when it was 2 years old, and had 77,000 miles on it (highway mileage - belonged to a salesman). At it's first 3,000 mile oil change, "Dad" started using Mobil synthetic oil in it, and changed it religiously every 3,000 miles. In 2001, "Dad" gave the car (now 24 years old and showing 220,000 miles) to his son, who continued to drive it and use the synthetic oil.

I had occasion to borrow this car for about a month while I was "between drivers" - it used no oil between changes, and had no nasty internal engine noises, even with nearly 250,000 miles on it...the only issue was leaky internal seals in the transmission: the car wouldn't move forward in "Drive" until the engine & tranny fluid were warm... a rebuilt tranny fixed that problem.

My friend sold the car last year, and it is still running around town....

The only major work done to the engine was a new timing chain and water pump at 190,000 miles.

Don't know if we can chalk that longevity entirely up to the use of sythetic oil, but I don't think it hurt...

Whatever oil you use, if you want the engine to last, change the oil & filter every 3,000 miles or spring & fall, whichever comes sooner.

AND...take the Camry out for a good drive (20+ miles) once a week, to get the engine up to operating temperature and keep it there for 30 minutes or more; this will help "boil" harmful contaminants out of the oil, as well as helping to cut down on condensation in the exhaust system, and carbon in the engine.

(Use this as an excuse to "get to know your State"....)

Good luck!

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There is a discussion on this topic in either the Packard or CCCA forum about synthetics in old Packard engines. I live in a climate where temperatures can drop below -40 for several weeks on end. I use synthetic oil because it seems to help with starting my cars which even with a block heater are very cold. My old 12000 mile VW diesel started at -38 once when the block heater was not working so it convinced me! I use a 0W30. in summer I use usually a 5W30. for many years I owned a Mercedes 450SL and it was ran with Mobil 1 for 12 years exclusivelly. It was a summer car only and ran quite warm so I used 20/50. The engine was as clean as new when I had to do routine maintenamce on the valve train. Usual wear items like chain guides were like new after 120000miles. I swear by the stuff. I know this is anecdotal and perhaps not worth much from a scientific view so do your research. My Volvo 1984 240 with 175000 on the clock has had religious oil changes at every 3000miles since new but mostly with dino oil. It burns a bit of oil between changes and the valve covers and cam towers etc. are stained only. I would say if you plan on keeping the car 15 years you might want to consider synthetic. In the long haul the price difference will be less than a new engine especially if most of the driving you do is city. I recall that there was a test study of taxis in NYC and the difference in wear was negligeable between different types of oils so maybe I'm wasting my money. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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I run synthetics (Amsoil) exclusively in the Amphicar, Trans, engine, grease etc. The trans is quieter, the engine runs great!

My '92 Ranger runs synthetic oil, it has 197,000 on it, starts in -20F every time easilly. It passes emissions with the same exact numbers as it did in '92. When running synth oils, you can safely double or tripple the time between changes because of the pollutants that do not exist with synth fluids. The extra cost is off set by this, so why not?

John

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Aside from the worries about rubber seals in older cars, would synthetics help the '47 flat head V-8? I keep wondering about that. So far it has done really well on just regular oil.

Probably better not to change it I guess, cause as we all know, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

<img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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Randall...do you READ our posts..? I really hate repeating myself..I am sure it bores the hell out of the rest of the guys. Again....for normal automotive driving...so long as you buy ANY "off the shelf" multi-grade oil (for liability purposes...they HAVE to meet "all engine mfgs. warranty requirements)...you CAN NOT BUY A BAD OIL.

Now...ONE qualification...this is a guy in here who says in winter he has to start at 40 degrees BELOW ZERO. Yes...if you are going to do "cold starts" in below zero temps...THEN...there is an advantage of synthetics...in that at those EXTREME LOW temps...they are more stable..and will not clog up like petrol. based oils will.

Absent EXTREME low temps...or SUSTAINED oil temp of over 250 (something you will NEVER see in the typical water-cooled ground-based auto engine)...there is NO advantage to synthetics...ALL modern "meets warranty specs" oils...have similar wear inhibitors in them...and...if you change your oil and filter once in a while..and dont "race" your engine when it is cold..it will last longer than you will.

Pete Hartmann

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I guess I would like to see more data on how synthetics work in oil sump system like the flat head in my car. Without a filter, I have read that synthetics separate dirt, and harmful particulates better than petrolium based oils reducing the amount of crud that comes out the tail pipe. I was hoping you might have a source for more information on this, John. As I said, right now the standard oils are working fine. I was just looking to see if there might be even a marginal difference to make it worth my while. I will let you know when I come up with something.

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Guest imported_Boehmke

Many thanks for all the info on this question. I'll find the book mentioned and read that also and make a command decission. Great to have this forum for all us carguys.

I'm still reading the owners manual on the new Camry XLE, wow, so many electronic changes and computers etc. What a difference from the last car I bought,('72 Maverick we just sold.) Great car, but this new baby is amazing.

Well, one thing, the Camry's not a FORD and so will not always be First On Race Day.

Anybody got a good accronim for TOYOTA?

Thanks,

Jim

Livermore, CA

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