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Titles are to protect


IndianaCarGuy

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In my case, a title preserved the ownership of a car that was "being restored" through an untrustworthy relative. The restorer died, and the relative insisted everything was ok,.. when in fact, parts were being stolen off of it, and I barely recovered the car, as the estate holder was already trying to sell the car. Two points here,.... due to a clear title and ownership, I recovered what was left and did not have to fight for rights to the car,.... Now am investigating the parts that were missing, and finding some pretty shady dealing on behalf of the family of the restorer, and from someone who should know better than to buy parts off a car that was legally owned. Odd they ripped off only what was untraceable,...but if they are not returned, and soon,... the guy who now has them will possibly lose a lot more than the parts he stole,.... seems he forgot that there is someone else who saw him using the parts, and they don't want to suffer due to that knowledge,...HINT, HINT!! Commendations to the Indiana Department of Motor Vehicles and the Indiana State Police.

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Your comments bring up some interesting points about vehicles being restored or even slightly modified. The original title or current titly gave you protection for the vehicle in general. As with my 34 LaSalle, the current title is somewhat in error since either Wyoming or Montana used the engine ID instead of the car VIN. I will have to correct the title. For my proposed legislation, I am mainly working on a way to title vehicles which no longer have titles. Many vehicles to be restored are obtained from wrecking (old car parts stores) yards and from pastures and back yards. I believe we need laws in the U.S. by state to allow the vehicles to be titled. Maybe your issue needs to be included in the title process but I'm not sure how to address it. Let me know if you have other thoughts on titling vehicles including what it done in Texas or other states.<P>Pat Childers, State Representative<BR>Wyoming

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I think the worst problem is the lack of uniformity from state to state,.... Indiana, Texas, Illinois you nearly have to give up on a car with no titile, as thay refuse to recognize anything BUT an original title. This is a problem,...but then,...look at all the salvage-titled cars that are out there driving everyday that should NOT be. I think the manner in Illinois, although difficult, is best, you have to go to the court house and they examine your claim to a car, and give you a tentative title, and if no one lays any claim to that vehicle after 90 days, you may proceed to title it, but the vin # remains in the system for 20 years as a "transition" title. I would say 5-8 years is long enough, as there is a bond that requires posting, and that is returned only after the expiration of the transition. This way, both original owners and buyers have some protection. What is NOT done, is that no evaluation of the value of the car becomes part of the record,... so it is assumed that if someone comes up with a legitimate claim after a new registration is issued, the car returns to the original owner. This situation is unfair, and should be addressed, because if the original car was a scrap pile worth $300, and the new titler spends $50,000 on a restoration, he still loses the car. I think what should be done is to appraise the car at the time of transition title, then either offer that the original owner may reimburse the new titler for only the investment, or offer that the new owner may reimburse the original owner for the original value of the car.<P>Look at my situation,..I am out $4,500 of parts that were taken off my car while it was in the hands of a "supposedly" legitimate restorer, and on his death, his estate failed to either take reasonable care of it, or reimburse the parts,... Do I sue, which will cost as much as the parts are worth,... or go spend the next 5 years looking for parts? In this case, I am not covered for any damage or loss, because there is no law to cover it, aside from grand theft auto and trafficking in stolen goods, so the State has the right to pursue and punish those who were involved,... but as far as civil court,... the cost to sue will be as great as the cost to replace the parts. I consider myself lucky, but it's still costing $4,500+ and it's up to the police to find and punish those involved. And can they recover the parts? Who knows.

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Indy ~ To play the devil's advocate here, let me set a hypothetical situation. I have an old car that is completely original and worth say $5000. I like it as it is and have no plans to restore it. Mr. Thief steals the car and sells it to you for its general value of $5000. You think the car is the greatest thing since sliced bread and you decide to restore it at a cost of $50,000. You now have $55k in the car. Under your proposed title plan, you would have had it valued @ $5000 when you got it.<P>Now my brother discovers the car while judging it at a car show in Texas and recognizes it as being my car by some unique repair I made on the frame. Briefly, you have a stolen vehicle which is legally mine even though you have some kind of cockamamie title to it.<P>If I am legally entitled to have the car back, why should I have to pay you for the $50K you spent on the restoration. I had no plans to restore it and wanted to keep the car original. You altered property belonging to me and I should have to pay for that? I think not.<P>If it was insured and I was paid by the insurance co. for the loss, then it really belongs to the insurance company. Now that becomes a real mess since if they now own the car, they ain't about to pay 55K for it.<P>Now Indy, you and I know each other pretty well on this forum so I am not picking a fight. As I said, being the devil"s advocate I see a problem with this title thing as outlined above.<P>Of course, that's just my opinion for the sake of arguement. I have no personal interest in the whole thing.

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Pat ~ I have a problem with issuing titles to vehicles "pulled out of junkyards."<P>Now out here in Wyoming we do not have as many crooks and shady operators as there are in the part of the country where I came from. Probably only because we don't have as many prople to draw from. Dishonesty is universal. It is pretty darned easy to launder a stolen car through a crooked salvage yard. Hell, they do it with cars and parts in the East all the time. Probably here too.<P>I think you are entering risky territory here. I believe Wyoming has pretty good laws covering our antique vehicles. Let's not mess it up. For the few instances of salvage yard vehicles with title problems, do we really want to muck things up? <P>But that too is just my opinion. ~ hvs<p>[ 11-22-2001: Message edited by: hvs ]

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