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Nash Met Taxi - Anyone get the story?


Belvedere

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Guest edb1946

Resto was done by Metropolitan Restoration Service. I think they are located in PA. Had a chance to speak with them this year after looking at the taxi in their spots. Younger guys who do incredible work. They specialize in metros and sell parts for them but said they work on other make/models. Their work speaks for itself

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Great little car. :)

I understand this car is a Taxi, but the Nash in Class 04-B (aka the "Small Car Class" ) seemed lonely by itself. :(

With the dwindling number of Volkswagens at Fall Hershey in Class 04-B, it could always use another entry.

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Guest edb1946
Thanks for the compliment. The car was built for a good customer we met at hershey 3 years ago. We bought the car just after hershey last year and finished the restoration two weeks before hershey.

Thanks are on this side of the table. It was great to see the younger guys making a living at it and keeping the hobby living on.

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GREAT CAR! A ton of fun to look at, and a superb resto!

post-34222-1431392190_thumb.jpg

But how did you manage to avoid the *dreaded* class 04B?

When I registered our 1954 VW for this year's show (we ended up not bringing it since we brought another car and our car trailer only fits one car), I specifically put down class 27A on the form, but when we picked up our packets in the Chocolate Field the day before the show, we found that the VW had been assigned to 04B!

I thought we would be able to choose to continue in the "original AACA class" in which we had *always* participated--which for us, with our '54 VW, was 27A!

What's your secret?!

Edited by stock_steve (see edit history)
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Guest Stonefish

The car was registered in class 37b….for professional vehicles 1943-1987. Listed as a Nash…it may not have known that it was a Met, until the day of the show??

I guess the question goes back to the first post: "Were any Mets ever used as taxis"? Or, was the car just done up to look like one, for fun? If they were used at Taxis…then why couldn't it stay in 37b? If they weren't…then I guess it should be in 04b (which in turn would bring up the "presented from the factory" discussion)

Like the Crosley truck in the "moved to 04b thread" this is just another example on why 04b is a flawed concept. (please, please put it back to the way it was!)

"Production vehicles built with a small frame

and small engine: named vehicles only. The

vehicles can attract a large audience due to

their miniature size; placing them in other

classes can cause them to be hidden from

view. This class is still being developed and it is

recognized that there are vehicles that can and

will be added to the list of those named with the

approval of the VP-Class Judging."

American Austin

American Bantam

Austin Cooper

Autobianchi

Bantam

BMW Isetta

Citroen 2CV

Crofton

Crosley

DKW

Honda S500/S600

Isetta

Iso Isetta

King Midget

Metropolitan

Nash Metropolitan

Morris Mini Cooper

Morris Minor

Peel

Playboy

Renault Caravelle

Subaru 360

Vespa 400

Velorex

Volkswagen

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re: placing them in other classes can cause them to be hidden from view.

Thats funny right there. These 04B cars might as well have been parked behind the DPC cars in the woods. I didn't register my Met for the show because I had to leave early on Saturday, but I had far more people look at it where it was parked in the flea market than would have seen it at the show in class 04B.

Bill

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Right, Stonefish. My original post raised the question of authenticity for a Metropolitan Taxi. There is no denying this Met was beautifully restored, and a crowd-pleaser! Is there any documentation of Mets being used as taxis, or was it done for fun? If done for fun, how does this vehicle fit into the AACA philosophy of authenticity judging?

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I have no idea if any taxi company every used Metropolitans. In my opinion, I would say that basically any car could have been used by an independent cab company, so in that regard it could have been adapted for use as a cab when new, so it is as fair for AACA judging as any other vehicle. With the exception of Checker, has there ever been a cab that came from the factory as a cab?

The judging guidelines notes for the Professional Vehicle Class indicates: "Professional vehicles shall include all ambulances, funeral vehicles, taxis, police cars and other 4-wheel automobile based professional vehicles." I would say that the Metropolitan appears to meet the requirement for the class.

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Guest Stonefish

So...the Professional Vehicle Class "trumps" the 04b class? Here is where things get fuzzy and why 04b's existence makes no sense....

If 04b is to capture ALL small cars (listed) so that they are "not hidden from view"…why can some folks select to enter their car into other classes?

Matt…using your "it fits the requirements for the class" argument…. Why couldn't Stock-Steve select 27a to show his 1954 VW? It "fits" the requirement of the class, right?

You have the Met in the Professional class…you had a Crosley truck in with the trucks…yet 04b was created so these "small cars" would not get hidden??? I don't get it?

So…could a Karman Ghia be shown with the sports cars? I suspect a VW double or single cab would be allowed to show with the trucks? Talk about painting yourself into a corner.

Again…by no means here to discredit the Met…car is great!

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Guest Skyking
Is there any documentation of Mets being used as taxis, or was it done for fun?

According to Patrick Foster, the author of The Metropolitan Story, Mets were used as Police vehicles, Fire Chief vehicles Radio Stations and postal workers with some delivery companies mentioned, but no mention of a taxi cab. Although the model company, Highway 61 claims that New York used them to carry single passengers short distances. If you think about it, there was no outside trunk access for luggage until 1959.

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Guest edb1946
According to Patrick Foster, the author of The Metropolitan Story, Mets were used as Police vehicles, Fire Chief vehicles Radio Stations and postal workers with some delivery companies mentioned, but no mention of a taxi cab. Although the model company, Highway 61 claims that New York used them to carry single passengers short distances. If you think about it, there was no outside trunk access for luggage until 1959.

I was waiting to see where this thread went to. But yes New York did used them as a taxi for a short period. I know this because my father bought one used from them to promote his taxi business. But mainly used it to drive back and fourth to work. We have photos someplace of it. But i cannot Figure out where i put them. Old age is a bugger.

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So...the Professional Vehicle Class "trumps" the 04b class? Here is where things get fuzzy and why 04b's existence makes no sense....

Ronn

I'm sure a car owner has a choice of which class to show, but if he were to show his commercial vehicle in its regular class, he would be docked points for any non-factory-authorized items, such as color, striping, lettering, commercial equipment, wheels, or whatever else may have been added to make it a work vehicle. A Model A owner can get away with painting his sedan delivery a non-factory color with special advertising on its side as long as it's entered in the commercial class. However, if he entered in the stock class, he'd be docked points for the paint and advertising.

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Stonefish,

I don't necessarly disagree with your thoughts about the Small Car Class. My own personal pet peeve is mini-bikes that were never intended to be street legal being shown in AACA meets, but I don't expect to see that changed because there are too many people who want to show them.

I suspect that the owner of the Met in question, simply registered it in the Professional Vehicles Class, and my intrepretation of the Judging Guidelines looks like that class is appropriate for the taxi. I realize you really want to eliminate the Small Car class. Constant complaints on the forum will not achieve the change you want. Getting a majority of those with small vehicles to contact the VP of Class Judging requesting elimination of the class is your best bet. A large letter/email writing campaign will get attention much better than complaints on the discussion forum.

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Guest Stonefish

@ West...are you saying an owner could select any class that meet the requirements for or just commercial stuff? Stock-Steve's attempt to enter 27a this year at Hershey was changed to 04b. I'm sure the word Volkswagen on any registration will set the whistle off. I'm also pretty sure, since we all got "the letter"...we're to register in 04b. I would LOVE to go back to my production classes, but I don't think I have a choice!? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

@Matt... I think it is fine for the Met to be in the class it was shown in at Hershey(I'm not overly concerned about the authenticity of it)...again, just pointing out how lame the definition of 04b really is; "hidden from view"...I just keep picturing the Met in a sea of Checkers! The logic and theory of 04b...that's the problem.

I sent my letter to the VP of Class Judging...never got a word back. Since then, there is a new one...so maybe I'll try again.

I'll just keep posting though…too much fun poking holes in good ole 04b!

wow..mini bikes vs street legal...look out race cars!? :)

Edited by Stonefish (see edit history)
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I don't have a dog in this fight, but I'll stir the coals anyway. Did anyone see the results inn Class 15? 4-cylinder cars, 1913-1919. Two cars won first junior. One was a 1913 American Underslung, one of the most prestigious cars you can imagine. The other was a Woods Mobilette, a tiny two-seat-tandem cyclecar that the American could just about carry in its toolbox. Both were excellently restored to the standard expected of such a car when it was new - that is, stunning for the American, plane-Jane for the Woods. Both deserved their first prizes. I doubt the American owner was miffed at having to compete with a Woods. I doubt the Woods owner was overawed at having to compete with an American. And both cars attracted a lot of spectators - the Woods didn't get lost and wasn't ignored. I congratulate both owners!

Gil Fitzhugh, Morristown, NJ

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In the Professional Car class along with the Metropolitan was a 1974 Cadillac Flower Car and a 1972 Dodge Polara Police Car. It was a very interesting assortment of cars in that class. It would have been more dramatic if the Cadillac and the Metropolitan were side by side, but the Dodge was between them.

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Thanks West for that inturpretation. It is the same logic I have assumed all along. It is the reasoning I will use when I finally finish my 48 sedan delivery. I had planned commercial class due to the modifications that have been done to make it suitable for what it was used for. I have been in this debate since the beginning and I have several "dogs in the fight". I like the "new" class 04-b and will start my second car through the judging process this Spring. (if plans stay the same as now). I understand the opposition that Ron has, but I feel a little consistancy, that will come with time, will solve the problem. I think the logic is not what "fits" in the class, but rather what class benifits the owner the most. 04-b, in the long run, will benifit the "small car" owners the most by eventually developing knowledgeable judges in the small car area. I don't want to constatnly argue about the class, and I do NOT want to see it go away. I want to do whatever will help make it better. Understanding, working with judges to make them more knowledgeable, and participation will do that.

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Guest Stonefish

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:DoNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>EN-US</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> <w:SplitPgBreakAndParaMark/> <w:DontVertAlignCellWithSp/> <w:DontBreakConstrainedForcedTables/> <w:DontVertAlignInTxbx/> <w:Word11KerningPairs/> <w:CachedColBalance/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Hey Dave…

Due to your favor and defense of this class, as well as your status as President of The Crosley Automobile Club…I sometimes think you were “in” on the development of this class?? ;)

Your comment about 04b being a class to benefit the owner is interesting…prior to the development of this class I saw no issues with small cars receiving their proper awards in the “production classes”. There were plenty of Juniors, Seniors, Preservations and Repeats give out to “small cars”. Did you see something different? :confused:

The idea of having knowledgeable judges for the class if fine…but really, the potential of having more real “odd ball” stuff is even greater in this class. Cars from multiple makes, from many countries…I can’t imagine it being any easier to judge in 04b than it would in a production class.

I don’t call, what we discuss here arguing…I see it as very constructive conversation. :D

How about this…let the owner choose what class they want to be in? If some small car owners feel lost amongst the big cars…let them present in 04b. If others owners would like to be in Production Classes…so be it.

I know of a Karmann Ghia that achieved AACA awards in the Sports Car classes…if it would return, would he have a choice? Because another friend brought his out in 2011 only to end up in the lovely, 04b.

From what I understand...Judges can request a class for judging...my friends that judge state they don't always get their first selection or any of them. Are there any classes that DO have a limited number of specific judges that do one class and one class only? Fire Trucks, race cars, motorcycles...etc???

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Since this thread has taken a direction of "what does or doesn't belong in this Professional Class", let me ask why limosines (especially those w/ divider winders) are not considered for this class? Most would have been driven by a paid driver as hearses, ambulances, taxis, etc. Many were completed by an outside coachbuilder. To me this puts them in the same vein as hearses and such. The Professional Car Society includes them. I remember the Fall Meet of 2011 included a 1968 Caddy Limo in 27-H, hardly your average production vehicle.

Personally, I don't see the real connection between funeral vehicles and and taxi/police vehicles. Better mix would be funeral/limo in one group and municipal vehicles (taxi, police, ambulance) as another group.

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I think your question does not have a straight answer. Until relatively recently, the same limousines were used for professional and private use, so yes, they were production. Today, stretched limousines are strictly professional and an argument -- sorry, discussion -- could be made that they belong in the professional car class. However, they are production cars, and if restored to factory specifications then I can see why they would fit in whatever other class in which they'd be eligible.

All this to say, there are gray areas. What in life doesn't have gray areas?

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Ron;

Thanks for taking the high road and keeping the discussion on a nice level. I too wish to keep it as a discussion. As far as being "in" on the development of the class, I thought we all were!!! I seem to remember the announcement of the consideration of the class and a solicitation for comments. Yes, I did send my comments to the VP of class judging at the time I heard about the class. No, I don't think any of my comments were directly adopted. Yes, I do think they looked at them.

I understand your point about many small cars getting awards under the old class system and I agree they did. Let me give a personal example. My 50 Farm O Road was a very crudely made vehicle. Even if it was done perfectly as it came from the factory, it would not be at a similar level as a beautifully restored Victoria . Now how could any judge no matter how skilled award my FOR, even if it was perfect, a first, and not do the same for the Ford even if it was not restored to a top level. I know what is supposed to happen, but I don't think a judge could be human and award a second to the less than perfect Vic and give a first to the perfect FOR . I don't think I could and I love my cars. The "small cars class" gives the judges an opportunity to be more fair to those small cars.

This is also my point on judges becoming more knowledgeable. Because of the smaller class, I have had the opportunity and priveledge to be able to spend time with the team leader each time I've shown to show all of my doccumentation to validate my claims of originality.

On letting the owner select what class they want to be in....I'm on the opposite side of that aisle also. I'd rather see the AACA tell everyone what class they have to enter in. I would propose that the owner send in a picture or pictures of his car with a suggestion of what class it belongs in. A committee would then say where the car will go... 1 appeal allowed...decision is final. The car can change class for a subsequent show on submission to the committee, otherwise that is the cars class for life.

Oh, and there a lot of judges that specialize in one class and have the seniority and respect that they judge that class at almost every show they go to!!!

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Guest Stonefish

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As far as your example of your FOR vs. a Crown Victoria…sure, I understand what you’re saying…but, if the judges are doing their job as they have been taught to do so…they should be judging the FOR for what it is and how it is being presented, without even looking at any other car in the class…right? :confused:

The point that a small car class would cure that issue seems a bit of a stretch…just because a car is “small” does not make it crude and less refined than a car double or triple the size of it, right? I don’t think that is what you’re saying…but it sounds like it. I would think a Met owner would argue that their cars are just as nice and refined as a Crown Victoria…?? Some of the early VW deluxe Bugs and Buses…are simple, but far from crude. At the Spring National in Reading...my 86 Cabriolet was next to a King Midget, you were there…are they on the same level with each other? I drove my car up I78…would you take a King Midget out there? My point…is just refuting your point of the FOR vs a Crown Vic. My Cabriolet should be in with production cars from the same year and that is where I would chose to show it.

Crosley Hot Shot…small car class or sports car class? Is it not known as America’s first post war “sports car”? Should the owner have a choice?

What about the Crosley pick up…small car class or with the trucks?

Could you not lobby to have your FOR in the commercial class? I’m sure you can come up with evidence that they were used on a commercial farm or orchard?

Some long time, AACA small car owners/showers, thought they WERE in class for life…and then poof!:(

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Ron;

Not a private party...it was posted that 04-b was being formed right here on the AACA website. That's when I sent in my comments and got involved.

Thanks for getting my point on the Crown Vic. As I said, I know what the judges are "supposed to do". I also know that they are human beings and volunteers at that and succumb to the weaknesses of the flesh. As such, what I am saying about evaluating one car against another does happen to some degree. I admire our judges. I have taken judging schools and although I stopped at that point (I didn't have time to prepare and show cars as well as judge so I had to give something up). They do a great job evaluating our vehicles and trying to be fair in all cases, but they are human!

On the subject of crude...in general the cars on the small car list were not made with the degree of fit and finish that most of the larger makes had. That's my definition of crude...perhaps less refined is a better choice of terms. Even in Volkswagen..up until the 80's were somewhat less than outstanding as compared to other large makes in that area. I mean no offense here, I am just stating that a Bug isn't a Cadillac!! And your Cabriolet...you have to admit is a different level than the King Midget it was next to. As an aside here...I will agree that VW after a certain year to be detrmined belongs with the other cars of the year. They were no longer the cars they were in the 60's. (and I mean that in a good way)

Your questions on "cross class" vehicles are valid, but I don't think it takes away from the validity of the 04-b class either. Should owners be given a choice...I think I already gave my opinion on that. When I was going to enter my FOR in its first show, I wrote to the VP of class judging and asked for his opinion as to what class to put it in. If I remember right, there were 3 possibilities that I detailed at the time. He gave me his opinion as to where it belonged and that's where I put it. I've had judges ask me since then if maybe it didn't belong somewhere else and that is the answer I gave them!!! This is a volunteer organization and we vote to put people on the board and as officers. We, as members vote to give them a job and I say we should let them do it. Ask questions, sure!!! volunteer to help and guide them, definately!! Express our opinions ALWAYS.

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Guest Stonefish

Totally must have missed the notice and the chance to chime in...anyone else see this or contribute?

"in general the cars on the small car list were not made with the degree of fit and finish that most of the larger makes had."....really? I've seen an ad and video that a Bug can float...could a Caddy? :confused:

My comments about the Cabriolet vs King Midget was exactly my point...I agree...it is the same thing as the FOR vs Crown Victoria. It shows that no matter what you are lumping together, you're going to have some strange match-ups that don't make sense...so why start a new class? Don't they say; "if it ain't broke, don't fix it?".

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Totally must have missed the notice and the chance to chime in...anyone else see this or contribute?

"in general the cars on the small car list were not made with the degree of fit and finish that most of the larger makes had."....really? I've seen an ad and video that a Bug can float...could a Caddy? :confused:

My comments about the Cabriolet vs King Midget was exactly my point...I agree...it is the same thing as the FOR vs Crown Victoria. It shows that no matter what you are lumping together, you're going to have some strange match-ups that don't make sense...so why start a new class? Don't they say; "if it ain't broke, don't fix it?".

I don't recall ever being solicited for my opinion about whether or not my '54 VW should continue in 27A, where it has always been shown (earning, along the way, First Junior, Senior, and Grand National), or get moved to class 04B. If I had been asked I would have said NO WAY. I consider my car just as legitimate as any other '54 production car that was on the road at the time. I always enjoyed showing my car in AACA National Meets with its legitimate peers. I think class 04b should be abolished immediately.

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I do like having the small cars together because I can find them easier but, I have to disagree with my president. I think owners should have a choice, if their car fits in more than one class. New York state recognizes my FOR as a commercial vehicle so why shouldn't AACA. Did have to pay for a heavier license unless I wanted to bring in a weigh slip since their computer locked out commercial vehicles under 2000 lbs.

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