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About 1965rivgs

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  1. Hi Gabe, As I have stated both in PM`s and on this thread the factory lit is not to be trusted. Even in the same model year there are inconsistencies and this is a good example. The `66 Salesman`s manual states overall ratio 19.5 to 1 and 3.79 turns (this is correct in my field experience) but the shop manual states a ratio of 20.5 to 1 and 3 .5 turns. It cant be both. In addition, the `66 qr box is stated to be 15 to 1. The bench check of your box and the math, if one assumes the Salesman`s manual is correct, and I believe it is, indicates this should result in 3.25 turns. You are finding same on the box in question. So the Salesman`s manual, both in text and demonstrated via the math and bench testing, seems to be a more reliable source as compared to the shop manual. The solution given the poor specs in the factory literature must be actual field inspection of the cars. Given a large body of data, as I have accumulated over 4 decades, mostly re the `65 cars and less re the `66 cars, one can see trends develop and cut through the contradictions in the factory lit. Again, if the `65 lit also states the `65 qr box is the 15 to 1, the same ratio as the `66 qr box, and the standard box field checks at 3.875 turns, then the `65 qr box should produce the same 3.25 turns...but that is DEFINITELY not the case in my experience. The `65 qr box is FASTER at 2.875 turns. And AGAIN, these are both bench tested and field tested producing the same # of turns, ELIMINATING THE STEERING GEAR. In contradiction to the stated specs in the lit, I have found the boxes to perform the same # of turns lock to lock both installed and on the bench. Is it possible the stated 15 to 1 for the `65 qr box is in error? As we have seen the lit is not to be trusted, so yes. Is it possible the stops are machined into the case differently from from `65 to `66? I highly doubt it as the standard boxes `65 to `66 demonstrate to same # of turns at 3.875. I doubt they would have specifically machined the qr box differently because that would cause the rack to have a shorter path, and assuming the mesh between rack and sector gears are the same, limit the rotation of the output shaft causing limited turning radius. Of course, pitman arms are the same in both applications The answer seems to be the ratio in the `65 qr box. It is faster as compared to the `66 qr box. As stated, when I have time, I will actually measure degrees of rotation for the `65 qr box. Also, something should be mentioned about the lack of concrete chronological evidence when evaluating these steering boxes. Much like other component rebuilding, it is possible for a rebuilder to dissassemble multiple boxes, evaluate the individual components, and reassemble "rebuilt" boxes with a mix and match of components which dont mimic the original units. Think carburetors... The stamped date codes, in as much as they are a good indicator, can also be open for interpretation. Are we looking at a box which is dated 1965 or 1975? My understanding is that the date code stamps look the same for both years. So unless one interprets the date code associated with other evidence, as in knowing the car from which the steering gear was removed, it becomes difficult to trust the origin of the box. Speaking of date codes, anything is "possible", but it has been my consistent observation, after evaluating several dozens cars in the field over the last 4 decades, that the date code of steering gear manufacture and car manufacture is between 2 and 5 weeks. Your box is late third month of `65 (if we trust the date code is `65 and not `75!) and the first of the `66 cars would be late August, so about a 5 month spread between gearbox date and potential car date. That is approximately 20 weeks or more difference. Is it possible? Yes. Is it probable? No, not according to the bulk data which I have observed. Good thread...as I related to you in our personal messages thanks for contacting me re this issue. It has been fun to revisit, Tom
  2. He`s in Michigan...that`s a patina state! Tom
  3. Dave Jackson...dont know his number but I thought I saw his ad in the latest Riview? Check your Riview, Tom
  4. Yes, the date is suspect. This is quite a few months in advance of `66 production. Also, I have a quick box in a `65 which is a LATER date than this box. I suppose it is possible both `65 and `66 boxes were being produced simultaneously but the spread between the date of your box and even the earliest of `66 production is very large compared to the time frame between component build and car build which I have observed repeatedly over the years. I dont trust the specs in the factory literature. According to the `65 Buick shop manual the # of turns of the steering wheel lock to lock, with the steering gear installed in the car, should be 3.4 turns. My observations have consistently been 3.875 turns. If the standard ratio is 17.5 to 1 and the qr box is 15 to 1, then the quick box should result in about 0.857 X 3.875 = 3.32 turns lock to lock. Although this is consistent with the stated 3.25 in the `66 literature (both `65 and `66 qr boxes are supposedly 15 to 1) NO WAY is this accurate for the `65 cars. Over the years I have consistently found the `65 qr boxes to produce LESS than 3 turns or approximately 2.875 turns lock to lock. I get the same results with steering gear connected or on the bench. Maybe I dont know how to count turns of the steering wheel but it`s pretty hard to mistake less than 3 turns for more than 3 turns. I have always questioned the `66 literature which states 3.25 turns because both `65 and `66 lit describes the qr boxes as 15 to 1. Based on my experience with the `65 models I expected the `66 cars to exhibit similarly. Maybe the `65 qr boxes are faster than 15 to 1 and the mistake is in the `65 literature?? Tom PS If I have time I`ll isolate and degree the `65 box
  5. Not trying to be a smart ass but are you using the jumper wires correctly? Hot (+) should be connected to one side of the connector or the other, depending on crank arm position, while the motor case itself should be grounded. Sometimes folks try to connect the hot to one side of the connector and ground to the other terminal in the connector. Tom
  6. 30 pounds is more like it...even a couple pounds lower wont hurt as I doubt you`re worried about getting the most miles from the tires. You`ll feel a significant difference in ride quality. Tom
  7. Hi Alex, There were actually several pieces of trim on the drivers seat. There are 2 pieces which wrap around the side. 1 piece stays attached to the power unit and the other piece attaches to brackets which are captured under the seat bolts, and therefore, moves with the seat while tilting the seat up. There are also individual pieces which cover the seat brackets/pedestals. I`ll see if I can dig up a picture. Tom
  8. When you previously posted low compression on one side of the engine I did not realized you have low compression on the other side also. A healthy engine should be between 150 and 180 lbs on each cylinder. As I suggested before, you could have an issue if someone washed to the cylinder walls clean with gasoline or starting fluid but adding light duty oil to the cylinders should take care of that. Does the engine sound funny while cranking but not starting? Is it backfiring or spitting compression back out of the carb? I`m wondering if it has a bad timing chain. I dont often see that on a Nailhead but who knows? Those compression figures are really low Tom Mooney
  9. Hi Tom, The over correcting is driver input because the box is "fast" compared to what is typical. After driving the car on a regular basis it was no longer an issue but whenever I go back to the car for a cruise I`m back on the learning curve. Tom
  10. Jim, It appears there is so much inconsistency in your pics, in regard to color, that none of us can be of much help via our computers. In the first shots your car appears a shade of blue to me, I dont see ANY green in the first pics. But the second set of pics look as if there could be some hint of green in the tint. Have you checked the `65 Cadillac colors as I suggested in today`s email to you? Or can you post a pic from one of the areas I suggested that appears to be an accurate representation of the color in person? Tom
  11. Did some more research since you and I last communicated. According to the Buick literature the 1969 Riviera variable ratio box results in less than 3 turns lock to lock. The earlier (non-variable) quick ratio 15 to 1 box also is just short of 3 turns lock to lock. However, the advantage of the variable ratio box is that the ratio is slowest in most typical steering wheel positions (nice ratio in this position, roughly 16 to 1, in between the standard box at 17.5 to 1 and the 15 to 1QR box ) which provides more precise steering control in most driving circumstances when it is desireable, such as navigating a medium curve/maintaining a position in the lane, and less precise control but quicker response when desireable such as backing and parking maneuvers. From my experience this advantage is pronounced. I have both an original QR box in one `65 and a variable ratio box in a second `65. The original QR box feels "twitchy" when going down the road as one corrects, and likely over-corrects, to keep the center of the lane. The variable box, which reacts more slowly and predictably in the same steering wheel positions, is more forgiving and just feels easier and more pleasant/comfortable to drive. Just my 2 cents... Tom
  12. Variable ratio was standard equipment on the 1969 Riviera. Tom Mooney
  13. 1965rivgs

    Kill switch for 63 Riviera

    When I park my car in an area or situation where theft is highly unlikely I pull the keys from the ignition and place them in the ashtray and close it. Hate to say it, but if I was looking for the keys to a car, like unearthing a barn find, etc, the first thing I would do is open the ashtray and look there. The second place I would look is behind the sun visors... The kill switch performs the same function as the ignition points. The points ground the primary circuit in the coil. When the points open they break the primary circuit which produces spark from the secondary side. If you never break the primary circuit, as when the points remain closed or a kill switch grounds the circuit, a spark from the secondary circuit will not occur. Tom
  14. There is no cross reference for a complete posi unit from another manufacturer, only some parts like maybe the clutch pack. The 9 and 3/8ths rear gear was a Buick only component. Tom
  15. Best to start with the 28 page summary Buick Service Bulletin from `65 which explains the early, VERY early builds with 1 relay and the subsequent campaign to convert all `65 Rivs to the 2 relay system. Are you a member of the ROA?? If so, you are entitled to, via your membership, a copy of said bulletin which I can send to your inbox. PM me with your email address Tom Mooney ROA Tech Advisor and Librarian