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About GLong

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  • Birthday 12/07/1952
  1. 'Grimy' put it all together: Our loved ones, our cars, our buildings and possessions are worth paying for a GOOD, EFFECTIVE fire extinguisher. A CO2 'fog' will conduct electricity: I saw a guy get knocked off his feet when he tried to put out a fire on a running engine: the ice-fog from the CO2 conducted the current from the ignition system to the extinguisher. CO2 hast to DISPLACE the oxygen in the air, in order to starve the fire of oxygen. It will also starve YOU for oxygen to breath if you are in a small space with no fresh air available. A dry chemical extinguisher is just a powder 'blanket'.. It is intended to smother the burning fuel.. be it liquid, solid, gaseous, whatever, a dry chemical extinguisher must cover the burning area to put out the fire.. With the fire under the hood scenario, you can't fight that fire safely with a dry chemical extinguisher, you have to open the hood, and this creates a place for the fire to go, up into your face, and the air is sucked in from under the car.. Spray a dry chemical under the burning engine, and it does NOTHING. Spray a CO2 under the burning engine, it might do the job. BUT: HALON or any of the new derivatives WILL put out the fire by spraying under the hood.. The Halon works by attaching to the oxygen in the air, and making it unable to support the combustion of what ever is burning.. it is a chemical reaction, not moving all the oxygen away from the fire like CO2 has to do, or blanketing the fire with a powder. But just spray at the base of the fire, from 6-8 feet away, and the fire will go out.. Halon works best and as 'Grimy' stated, it is the only type of fire extinguisher approved for aircraft use.. If you have a fire in an overhead luggage bin, the aircraft crew members are trained to just pry open a corner of the door to the luggage bin, spray Halon inside, and leave the door closed, The same for a fire in an aircraft lavatory: leave the door closed, spray through the louvers in the lower part of the door, if no louvers, then along the floor at the bottom of the door, or open the door a very small amount and discharge the HALON extinguisher.. I'm a retired Airline pilot, and have had 40 years of annual fire-fighting training, and I've had some very interesting training events that have proven to me that ONLY Halon is worthwhile to buy and count on to save your cars, buildings or loved ones.. There is the tragic story of the Canadian Air Transportation Dept [like our FAA] outlawing Halon, making that decision on some erroneous information, All Canadian Airliners removed Halon, and put in Dry Chemical extinguishers, a few months later, a flight from I think Toronto to Cincinnati had a fire in a lavatory, in the trash receptacle, this was back in the '60s I think.. The dry chemical could not blanket the paper burning in the trash receptacle, and the smoke filled the plane, everyone was killed in the resulting crash of the plane.. within a year, the Canadian Air Transportation Dept reversed their earlier order regarding Halon, and made Halon required equipment.. The amount of Halon that is needed to be effective to put out a fire is about 50% of the concentration that could be harmful to your health, The concentration of CO2 that is required to put out and keep out a fire is high enough to cause you to pass out from lack of oxygen.. So don't believe the 'Urban Legends about Halon being dangerous to humans or pets.. It's NOT. A LARGE CO2 is needed to be effective, as well as a LARGE Dry Chemical.. An airliner with 180 passengers has two 2.5# halon extinguishers in the cabin and one 1.5# extinguisher in the cockpit.. That should give you an idea how effective Halon is.. A 2.5# Halon is very effective for a car or truck.. Every door to my home has at least one Halon near it. Every vehicle has at least on Halon in the car, and some vehicles have a second one in the trunk, and all enclosed trailers have at least one Halon as well. A very nice car was destroyed five or six years ago from a fire that started on top of the fuel tank. The car had just had the gas tank filled, it is believed that the brake light wiring might have shorted, but regardless, a fire started on top of the fuel tank, which in this big sedan, was under the rear of the car, roughly under the rear seat.. The car had stopped at a stoplight, the driver in the car behind it ran up, told the driver he was on fire, Both men had a dry chemical extinguisher, and as expected to me when I heard of the fire, the dry chemical was ineffective.. just think: how could you lie under the car and spray up to the top of the fuel tank to put a powder blanket on the fire?? Another dry chemical extinguisher was offered by yet another car that stopped to help, Even with THREE extinguishers, the fire could not be put out. The car had a wood body structure, and soon the wood caught fire, and the car was a total loss. Sorry this turned into a novel.. But there is nothing more terrifying that having a fire raging out of control, and nothing more destructive. GLong
  2. Hi Terry, that is true, but when working with an engineer at one of the spring companies, the pressure @ given installed height, as well as the pressure at top of lift, were all part of the questions asked and used to determine if an available spring was made for or in stock for another more modern engine.. One of the problems is too LOW spring pressure for some 'made for xxx antique car' springs from some common old car parts sources. Example: the '33 and later Pierce engines had Hydraulic lifters. and their design was such that a higher seated pressure valve spring was needed to prevent high engine oil pressure when cold from pumping up the lifter and un-seating the valves.. The listed seated pressure in Motors is 64#.. for the previous year's mechanical lifters, the seated pressure was around 50#. I called, checked on specs for a set of new springs. They were stated to be made 'to specification'. But when I received them, and checked the pressure at the prescribed length, they were only 45# !! probably would work ok with manual adjusted lifters. but would not work at all with the '33 and later hydraulic lifters.. When I called to for a Return Authorization Number, we ended up in a 'discussion' [I'm being nice] about the specifications used for the manufacture of the new springs.. The wire size/diameter was significantly smaller for the 'new' springs, and of course this resulted in a much weaker spring. Even with 1/8" !! of shims under the new spring, it did not get to even 55# seated pressure.. they were simply NOT usable for the engine they were sold to 'fit'. I would certainly not recommend just buying any spring that has the right external dimensions.. the correct springs do have several parameters to be 'correct'.. GregL
  3. Hi Guys. are the valve spring unique in some dimension or pressure or ?? I've contacted a few spring companies with issues regarding valve springs, and found a few very helpful people who knew how to navigate their databases, and found a modern spring that fit the parameters I needed. The extra long springs used in many of the old engines do usually require having some made to order, but the shorter springs usually can be found in some form or another, being used or recently used in more modern engines.. Just a thought.. Greg L
  4. Hello Brian, I'm the Pierce Arrow guy from Holly, you came to an old car event at my place a few years ago. I've done the same operation with modern valves on several engines.. I look for a modern SS valve, with the valve stem enough larger that the wear in the original valve guide can be reamed out and honed to size. I don't like putting the stress of pressing out and pressing in new valve guides in old iron cylinder blocks. If an inconell exhaust valve can be found, the valve will outlast the car and engine. What Caterpillar valve did you find to use? .402 is an odd size, most common is .375" which is 3/8", next up is 7/16" which is .437".. So that .402 stem is somewhere around 10.5mm. Some late teens engines used a valve with that stem diameter too. The valve length is pretty long: 7.5" long, with a 1-5/8" head diameter. Where did you find you could purchase the Diesel valves? Glad you 'only' have the reassembly of the engine to do now. Good warm weather for driving an open car is still a month or two away.. Take care, Greg Long
  5. Do you have a Marvel Mystery oil dispenser on the engine intake manifold? or a similar upper cylinder lubrication device? If so, could it be leaking, pooling on the throttle butterfly, then leaking out the throttle shaft clearances ? The only 'red' substances that are oily, are ATF, Marvel Mystery Oil, liquified red grease, dried or partially dried gasoline, I'm sure there are dozens more I can't think of. GLong
  6. If you heard air leakage when performing the compression test, it is most likely valves not sealing. Just because the valves are going up and down, does not have anything to do with how well the valve seats make clean, tight contact and seal the combustion chamber. Any time the head is off one of our old cars, it is a good idea to clean the valves, and lap the valve to the valve seat and inspect the results. The lapping will turn the seat a silvery-gray. Any black specs or spots are pits in the sealing surface. If the pits are grouped closely in an area, that part of the valve is not sealing well. If there is an area where there is NO contact, with the lapping process, that valve is not sealing much if any. Sometimes just a bunch of carbon chunks get caught under the valve, and hold it off the seat. This can easily be remedied when the head is off and if the valves are cleaned and lapped. If the rings are really bad, you will see a carbon-free ring around the outer edge of the piston, where the oil is coming past the rings, and 'washing' off the carbon. You can, like you mentioned, push a piston around in a cylinder bore and often see the top piston ring.. So find the gap in the top ring you can see. Is the gap in the ring greater than say .030"? That's just about the same as the spark plug gap. if the ring gap is wider than .025-.030", then the rings are pretty worn. If it were my engine, from your description, I'd clean and lap the valves, I'm pretty sure you will find some poor valve seats, or carbon stuck in the seats, stopping the valve from sealing. A rebuild with boring the block, new pistons and rings, new valves and valve guides, rebabbited mains and rods, with mains line bored, and the crank and cam reground, cam followers refaced, cam bearings replaced or ? Timing chain ? if it has one, replace it if worn, You are looking at $15,000-$20,000 or possibly more, depends on a LOT of wear factors, condition of heads and cylinder blocks, etc. Hope this helps. GLong
  7. Yep, where did that 4 1/2 quarts of oil go, while it was on the flatbed? Was the car sitting level when YOU checked the oil level? I believe an inspection of the engine is in order, take it to someone who will drop the oil pan, and inspect each connecting rod for scores, excess oil clearance and obvious wear. While you have owned and driven the car, have you changed the oil? Did you notice any change in indicated oil pressure while driving in the Pocono's ? If the oil was that low, and the engine starved for oil enough that it burnt up a connecting rod bearing or two, then you should have seen significantly low oil pressure, and possibly even elevated engine coolant temperatures. Did you note any low pressure indications ?? GLong
  8. Solid copper wire spark plug wires have the lowest resistance and therefore the lowest spark voltage of any spark plug cable. In a '20's or '30's vintage car, most engines have a spark plug wire loom or tube that all the wires are routed through, and exit at each cylinder's spark plug. If a '20's or '30's car has carbon core wires installed, and feeds them [read: pushes and pulls them] through the plug wire loom, they will not only most likely sustain damage to the center core of the wires, as they are fragile.. But when high voltage wires are jammed together in a tube, spark voltage will find the path of least resistance. And with carbon core wires, that likely will be to the wiring tube, or other plug wires. If looked at on an ignition oscilloscope, a carbon core wire if broken internally, will show a much higher voltage than a good wire, and any carbon core wire will have higher spark voltage than a copper core wire.. For a '50's car, with plug wires separated by a 'rooster comb' then the cross-firing is not likely a problem, but I'd never use anything but copper core wire on a '20's car with a wiring loom. As for the electronic ignition, like most of the above posts ask.. WHY? I have a '33 Pierce Arrow 836, I've driven it 500-1000 miles every summer since 2000, and the dual points and condenser system has never changed it's settings or let me down.. AND, if it did let me down, I can get it running with minimal tools and time. GLong
  9. I agree with Rusty, I think they are both early marine engines. I'm pretty sure I've seen a similar if not the same 2cyl one in a wood boat years ago. GLong
  10. As mentioned above: ATF, automatic transmission fluid has lubricity, and is very high detergent. And it is reasonably priced for an automotive lubricant. Many modern standard-shift transmissions use ATF instead of 90wt gear oil. Looking at the photo of the exposed main shaft of the trans, it looks very clean. I'd look with a flashlight into the bottom of the transmission case, and see if there is a lot of crud deposited there. The straight gear transmissions did not generate a lot of crud, since there is nothing wearing away, unlike in an automatic transmission. You might find very little on the bottom of the transmission case. GLong
  11. There is nothing better than the Neway cutters for working on a flat head engine in the car. If a car has in-head valves, then I'd still prefer to do them my self, because some machine shops have no respect for old parts that are irreplaceable. For work on an engine in the car, nothing is worse than all that grinding-wheel grit getting everywhere in, on and around the engine. With the hand-cutters by Neway, the steel/iron shavings stay right next to the seat, and can be vacuumed up. I usually put a vacuum hose in the port of the valve seat I'm cutting, this sucks up all the metal filings as they are created. The engine deck stays clean. You never have to reface stones for wear or to correct the angle, and deal with the mess of more grinding grit everywhere. Ebay often has a few kits up for auction, but you need to educate yourself about the Neway products. There is a '100-series' and a '200-series' set of pilots, cutters and operating handles. I use the '200-series'. they have larger pilots to fit the big valve stem sizes of the old cars. The '100-series' is best for the imports, lawnmowers, motorcycles etc. GLong
  12. Check the insulation for the point/condenser bolt that passes through he side of the distributor. Make sure the rubber or bakelite insulation block is clean and there is no chance it is shorting to the distributor. consider trying a third new condenser. If you are using a NOS one, they can 'sort-of' work, show a spark at the plugs but the engine won't start. This is an odd one, but put a jumper wire on the distributor body, and then to the body, or the engine block to assure a perfect ground for the distributor. Check that the condenser is tight, making a good ground to the point plate in the distributor. Look VERY closely at the rotor, and cap. use a magnifying glass. I've had a rotor develop an internal carbon track, it was found by looking in the recess where it sits on the distributor shaft.. just a tiny black spot that should not be there. Make sure your distributor cam has some lubrication on it. if it was or is dry, make sure the points have some gap, to have it exact at this time is not crucial, but the points must be opening at least .016-.020". And make sure there is no oil or a finger print on the points' surface. I've had terrible luck with 'C' spark plugs. If they get flooded once, they often are then junk, good for lining trash cans. I do not know why, other than the porcelain in the insulator seems to get a coating that shorts the plug. I know many people have no problems with them.. but try a previous 'used' set of plugs. Just sandblasting won't remove the 'plastic-like' coating that gets on the plugs when they are flooded. Look at the chronology of when the car would not start. Did you just buy a fresh tank of fuel? Did you do ANY carb, fuel pump, distributor work or make adjustments ? It cannot be driven into the garage and go out of time or become 180* off when it's sitting there. Just think back on when it ran last and then later when it would not start. Why did it flood? Operator error [ too much choke too long] ? That's what I sometimes do, I forget the particular way a car likes to be started. Then I flood it.. I've also found water in the float bowl of a carburetor, just a coincidence that it was running ok, when parked but would not start or run properly, and it needed the float bowl cleaned out, and the fuel tank sump drained.. Have you looked at or changed the fuel filter?? I know it's flooding, but maybe if you have a hidden see-through filter it might offer some clue, like a bunch of rust? or water ? When you do find the culprit please post it here, so we all can learn from your experience here. I hope you get your 120 on the road again soon. GLong
  13. Lets 'get real' here: A Pierce Model 43 is not a 'low-level' Pierce Arrow. It is not 'low', or 'lower' or 'lesser' in any way. It cost a few hundred dollars less than a model 41/42. Mostly because of the smaller bodies on the shorter wheelbase. All the Pierce Arrow cars, and I mean ALL were built to a standard of quality, not to a price. And this is why Pierce eventually went bankrupt: they could not compete against cars built to a price standard, for Pierce, quality and advanced engineering were the law. If a person who has never been in each of the models of a car wants to KNOW, not guess, about the cars, then go to a Pierce Arrow regional or national meet, and look them over, ask the owners about them, most of us will gladly give a ride in our cars. And if the person indicates they know how to drive a car from the late '20's through mid 30's I will usually let someone drive one of my cars. The so-called 'small' 8 from Pierce is 366 cubic inches, that's NOT small, the 'small' Packard Standard-8 was 320 cuin. The Pierce and Packard big 8's were both 385 cubic inches, The Packard was rated for fewer horsepower. The model 43, with 134 and 137" wheelbase was fit with the smaller bodies, like the convertible coupe, or fixed top coupe, or Club Brougham [2-door/5 passenger]coach or the standard 5 passenger 4-door sedan. The bigger 385 cu. inch engine was used in the longer wheelbase cars because they NEEDED the bigger engine, those were 142 and 147 inch wheelbase cars. That is the only difference between the models, the wheelbase length and the size of the body that wheelbase would accommodate. The fit and finish were identical, the wheels, tires, brakes, front and rear axles, gas tank, headlights and tail lights, radiator shell all identical. Tire size sometimes was upgraded for weight-carrying capacity. There were some differences in doors on the hood, and some bits of chrome trim. The ONLY time there was a possible difference in fit and finish was if the car had a body by a custom coachmaker. And it is difficult when put side by side to find fault with the 'factory' Pierce coachwork, it was after all, all hand made and assembled. The 366 'small' 8 is built to the same identical standards as the 385. It does not have a cast crank, they were all forged crankshafts, the difference is that the 366 crank has bolt on counterweights while the 385 crank has integral counterweights. None of the Pierce engines have any issues in design. The lubrication systems are the same, the intake and exhaust manifolds are the same, the distributor may use a different cap and rotor.. it's still a Delco distributor. In fact, without looking at the engine serial number the engines are identical. If a rebuilder wants to, he can put the 1/4" longer stroke 385 crankshaft in a 366 block, since they are the same casting, use shorter pistons, and turn a 366 into a 385. The factory ratings were 125hp for the 366, and 132hp for the 385 in 1931. So a 7 hp increase for the 19 cubic inch increase in engine displacement. If all three 1931 models were lined up side by side and looked over, the differences are the wheelbase, and available body styles. You will be hard-pressed to tell the differences without an intimate knowledge regarding the model year. Only in 1930 did Pierce attempt to make a slightly 'lesser' car for their lineup. The Model C had an inch shorter wheelbase than the Model B's. The 'C' engine was 340 cubic inches, and a single throat updraft carb was used, it was 'merely' 115 hp vs the 366 engine in the Model B which made 125 hp. That 'experiment' was for one year only. But again, put the cars on the show field next to each other, and compare, the quality is the same, and without knowing the small differences, it is hard to tell them apart. Mid priced cars are just that, a Pierce Arrow is a very high quality hand built car. Greatly overbuilt and under stressed. The is a reason that Seagraves bought the rights and tooling for the 8 and V12 engines and that the engines were still available 30+ years later in the late '60s as a gasoline powerplants in the Seagraves firetrucks. Minor changes like two spark plugs per cylinder and insert rod bearings. How many engine designs lasted 40 years and the last 30 were for industrial and emergency vehicle applications? Are the Pierce Arrow cars heavy ? yes, Would I want to drive in city traffic in a big enclosed Pierce ? Not usually. I like my Pierces out on the open road, not playing parking-lot roulette. Just setting the record straight, GLong
  14. Yes, it probably is Panasote, there are several versions, I'd contact the suppliers with photos of your top material. GLong
  15. K8096: if your Packard has not had the carb off in 50 years, I'll recommend that you remove it and clean it thoroughly. That's a lot of years of gas drying out in the carb when stored, a lot of very small bits of crud getting through the filter and settling into the bottom of the float bowl.. If the accelerator pump is working correctly, then you only need to buy a gasket set for the carb. It is likely that at least one paper gasket will get torn when opening up the carb. On the EE carburetors, the bottom of the float bowl is about 3/8"-1/2" lower than the passageway that lets fuel into the main jets. What happens is this lower 'floor' acts like a sediment bowl, collecting bits of crud over the years. I've removed an amazing amount of stuff from an EE float bowl. You can do this clean out in the car, but it can be difficult to lean over the fender and sidemount spare. If it's an EE3 in a prewar Packard, it's a V12, isn't it ? That one is harder to clean on the car. If your fuel level in the gas tank is fairlly low, you can add Seafoam or similar products to the fuel. And it might be high enough of a concentration to be effective. I'd not waste the money on adding the cleaner to a full tank, the concentration is just too low to be effective. just my opinion. Where are you located ?? GLong