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virginia Law to restrict old cars to 50 miles from home?


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A friend in the machine shop at work mentioned that he read (in Hemmings, I think) that legislation was introduced in Virginia to restrict the operation of antique and collector vehicles to a radius within 50 miles of the address where the car is registered. Any comments? Any truth to this? If true, what can possibly be the rationale or logic?

Whenever I hear something like this I get really scared. Any time government thinks of a new way to take away more of our freedom, it is inevidable that it will spread. Today Virginia, tomorrow it's a federal law.

--Scott

1926 Packard

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Scott, there was a bill discussed earlier this year about that restriction, and other changes brought on because of the typical 25 year old "paint wagon" on the way to the job site wearing the Va Antique tags. The bill died(in committee), but will probably be looked at again next year.

Compliance of the Antique tag law is poor to say the least. You, me, and everyone can do their part by turning in the people abusing the antique tag law. If you see the same vehicle more than 2 times a week, and he is certainly using it as a work vehicle, call a cop, turn him in.

We've been lucky so far, but we need to keep everyone honest.

Wayne

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Perhaps one solution to the abuse of antique tags is to modify the age of a vehicle that can qualify for antique tags. A twenty-five year old car today really is not much different from a 2006 model, relative to a twenty-five year old car back in the 1950's when this rule was adopted.

A better method might be to have a rolling qualification based on the percentage of total automobile history. What I mean is, say back in 1950 a 25 year old car qualified to be an antique by the AACA. That was roughly a car that was half as old as the automobile itself. In 1960, that logic would make a 1930 car eligible to be an antique. In 1980, it would be a 1940 car. For 2006 it would be a car made in 1953.

I know there's lots of people out there who love collector cars alot newer than 1953, and that's great. But to call them "antiques" and to legally classify a 1981 Ford in the same category as a 1912 Model T Ford, for instance, is really abusing the definition of antique.

My $0.02

-Scott

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I've said it before- the blame for abuse of antique plates in VA lies <span style="font-weight: bold">SQUARELY</span> with DMV itself, because they do not screen applications and actually encourage sales of antique plates to anyone who comes in to register an older car. "Did you know your car qualifies for antique plates?" I say, the DMV clerk needs to go out and look at the car, or at least require proof of membership in a legitimate car club. That way the cost of dues for a club membership would take away the financial incentive of running antique plates on a clunker. Conversely, such a requirement would bolster club memberships. Possibly require any antique licensed vehicle to provide proof of insurance with a collector-car insurance company? the annual mileage limits would take care of a lot of antique plate fraud.

I'm all for having the antique plate option because it saves me a pile of money every year, but then again my antique licensed stuff is driven and maintained as an antique car. Even though it qualifies for antique license under VA law, I still keep the personalised plate on the 1974 Hurst/Olds simply because I like it. That car has been driven less than 150 miles in the last two years. The other four with antique/YOM plates rarely get driven more than 1000 miles a year.

Wayne, I can't prove it, but I suspect the Danville Police Department had a finger in Danny Marshall's legislation last year. Over the past year- at suggestion of DMV itself, which doesn't want to be bothered with enforcement of the statute- I've personally turned in nine questionable antique plates to the PD, and every damn one of those cars is still wearing antique plates. So much for anyone enforcing the laws on the books.

I also question the argument that a 1981 car is not much different from a 2006. Except for having wheels and an engine, the cars are light-years apart simply by virtue of the technology they use. A well-maintained or restored to original 1981 car that is driven and maintained as an antique is just as much an historical vehicle as a similar Model A. Not as valuable, but a part of an overlooked era of history nonetheless.

My Toronado regularly stuns people who never knew there were front-wheel drive cars before K-cars. Likewise young people have never seen a car as large as my 1976 Ninety Eight. These cars may not be considered antique by some, but they are nice examples of what <span style="font-weight: bold">was</span> the American automobile.

Leave the 25 year rolling exemption; just screen what's being issued an antique license plate.

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Guess we need to clarify the 50 miles from home thing too- The original antique vehicle statutes limited driving to parades, car club functions, testing and pleasure trips no more than 50 miles from owner's residence. Several years back, the mileage limit was increased to 250 miles to accomodate touring. Last year's legislation would have rolled the mileage limit back to 50. I need to talk with Danny again to see if he'll head off Leo Wardrup on this thing. Wardrup is one of several urban legislators who have no business making law for the rest of Virginia. Not quite as bad as Michelle McQuigg, but he's close.

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Guest leadsled1953

questions ,do you have to have historical insurance to get historical plates in Va?my desoto in Ny required that.i had to send pictures of my car to get the insurance.every year i have to send my odometer reading to the insurance company.i am omly allowed 2500 miles a year[i do 200].as much as i hate saying it dmv and the insurance company could weed out 80 percent of these people if they would make an effort.

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VA is one of those states which doesn't require insurance at all. If you elect to drive w/o insurance you have to post a bond payment before you can register the car or get or renew plates. I think it's $600/year now, not sure as I never have to fool with it. I think it's insane to drive without insurance.

So no, antique/collector/historical insurance is not required to get antique plates here, though it's not a bad idea.

That's what really chaps my hide, that VADMV doesn't want to enforce its own regulations but instead recommends contacting the local PD, who aren't interested in writing a misuse of plates ticket. The abuse of antique plates could be stopped right then and there if DMV would only screen the cars they issue them to.

What am I thinking? This is the same DMV who issues drivers' licenses to illegals and terrorists.

I'm not too keen on modern, GM-powered, kit-built street rods wearing antique plates either. By rights they are a modern vehicle and should be wearing regular issue plates, but they get out of safety and emissions inspections with antique plates. The difference is even though these cars aren't antiques, they aren't clunkers. Maybe it's time VA offered a street rod plate like the surrounding states do. Lord knows they'll create a license plate for any other special interest group.

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Guest leadsled1953

it sounds like its dmv not doing what they are supposed to.as far as insurance historical insurance requirement for historical carsthat would end 98 percent of the problem.the insurance company would turn most of these cars down and to lie about mileage ect is fraud.i pay $94 per year full coverage for my 50 desoto.my other cars thats a different story[new jersey] <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 4 months later...

Why do most of you think having Politicians enacting new laws will make everything okay, and all of the people who ae not now following the current laws are going to abide by any new ones.

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Could it be possible that some Antique and Classic car clubs are actually in concert with the Lawyers, insurance companies and other special interest groups to enact new or tougher regulations and laws. Why should anyone owning a classic car (or any car) have to join a club? I also own two vintage motorcycles. Should I have to join a Motorcycle club also?

Politicians can come up with enough wacky laws without help from people who are merely trying to enjoy a rather expensive hobby that is helping to preserve part of an America already destroyed by the so called servants of the public trust.

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Don't get me wrong. I'm against stupid, nanny, or revenue-generating legislation as much as anyone and probably more than most.

But if it means being able to keep my antique plates instead of having them gutted because the state keeps selling antique plates for clunkers instead of policing themselves...

Burden of proof should be on owner/applicant first, and if he can't prove his car is driven and maintained as a collector car instead of possible use as daily transportation, then the state should deny the antique plate application.

Take away the financial incentive the Virginia antique license plate affords, you'll see the problem correct itself shortly. In the meantime, the existing antique plates that have been issued to clunker daily drivers have to be dealt with and rescinded. They're permanent plates and that will complicate things. DMV's pat response to complaints is to turn in the plate to local law enforcement. Local LE doesn't want to be bothered with improper registration tickets. Then the damn lawmakers want to swoop down and gut things for everyone.

I still say the DMV should screen every antique plate application that crosses the counter and require the applicant to request the plates instead of suggesting the car is eligible for them.

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bow, Virginia's legislative seminars are ongoing. There will be NO requirement to join a car club in Virginia to have antique tags. There MAY be a milage restriction somewhere in the future, but that doesn't look like that's going to happen now either. As I write this, there's still a little stalemate as eveyone imvolved tries the rectify this situation, basically an abuse of the use of the antique tag. It'll probably be after the first of the year before anything actually takes the form of a bill in Virginia.

Wayne

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In fact, in 1960 AACA did recognize cars 25 years old and older, and that was 1935. They also recognized specified "classic cars" up to 1948 at that time. However, the rules said that 1935 was the permanent and definite cut-off. That rule was not changed until 1968 when the rule was changed to allow one new year every other year. By 1974 the 1935 rule had moved up to 1938. In 1974 the rules were changed to again be 25 years old and older, which allowed the 1939 through 1950 cars all to come in at the same time, during that one year. This history is in the front of the AACA Policy & Procedure Manual which can be found in the top yellow line under Publications.

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  • 1 month later...

Just when you think things are going well, we have this to deal with;

From our main man, Tom Cox!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Hello Everyone,

I am writing to ask that you please have as many people as possible contact ( call and E-mail ) Senator Martin Williams, Chairman of the Senate Transportation Committee to ask that he rescind his amendment to our bill that would leave the 250 mile limit on pleasure use driving.

All was well until late today when the Senate Transportation Committee decided to amend HB2465 to leave the 250 mile limit in the statute, after it had been removed as a result of hard won compromise in the House. This limitation is unenforceable and may actually make it more difficult to enforce the new statute, allowing parasitic use of our tag to go unpunished.

This is not the end of the world since you may still drive an unlimited number of miles to any club functions or shows. However, this limit on pleasure driving more than 250 miles from your home is needless. Especially given all the other changes that are being made to the statute to eliminate abuse. It is also unenforceable.

Very politely ask that the Senator pass HB2465 exactly as the House approved after long hours of negotiation without amendment. His contact info is below.

This cannot wait!!! Please do this now and pass it on.

Thanks,

Tom Cox

Senator Martin E. Williams

® - Senate District 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In-session address:

General Assembly Building, Room 332

Capitol Square

Richmond, Virginia 23219

(804) 698-7501

email: district01@sov.state.va.us </div></div>

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It's not getting any better guys, but at least it's moving ahead!

Wayne

Hot off the presses today, February, 20,2007!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

HB 2465 Alert !!!

Hello All,

I thought before the rumor mill cranked up, I would let you know that HB2465 was amended two more times today by the Senate. In addition to restoring the 250 mile limit late last week, the Senate, at the request of Senator Marty Williams has again ignored us and amended the bill. His amendments today reduced the penalty for misuse to a class 4 misdemeanor (minor traffic violation), which is not really a huge problem for us. It does however put less fear in the hearts of those who would abuse the tags. In addition, he has removed the prohibition against commercial use, which is not really a good thing. Although, there is still specific language outlining the use parameters which prevents the carrying of anything other than passengers, their personal effects, and or other antique vehicles for show purposes. That coupled with the limited use language accomplishes the same goal though perhaps not as succinctly.

At the end of the day we should allow the House to accept these amendments and move on. Further beating this horse next year could prove more perilous, creating as yet unknown problems for us. No it isn't perfect, but I will take it after two years of wrangling. We still avoided annual State inspections, loss of our personal property tax exemption, and far worse possibilities. I have spoken with Delegates Marshall, Griffith, as well as Senator Bell, DMV, and Delegate Wardrups office and they concur. Let's let this rest for now.

Sincerely,

Tom Cox

President Southwest VA Car Council

Chairman Legislative Affairs AACA

</div></div>

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Wayne, you'll have to keep me posted thru this site as me magic box went terminal a couple weeks ago and at 8 years old I am really not inclined to spend any money on it. I can surf a little at work.

I sure hate our "own" improvements are being slowly gutted. The legislator probably thinks he's doing us a favor, but all that will happen is this will come up again in a few years- probably with worse returns.

I just hope Danny will shut up about it. I may not be entirely civil if he pushes it again. It's interesting that in the newsletters he puts in the local papers, he has not mentioned his efforts to gut a law that didn't need changing, just enforcing. Crows pretty loud about other stuff he does though. That "Earnhardt Day" bill he pushed thru grated on me.

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He's no friend of mine either Glenn. I had Steve send him an AACA Magazine (Thanks Steve!) to see what our hobby is about hoping he would join. I haven't heard one way of the other what happened afterwards. I don't expect him to send a thank you to any of us.

I'll keep you informed.

wayne

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From Delegate Danny Marshall,

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

2.27.07

Thanks to all of you for your work on the Antique tag bill for 2007. As you may know, the House passed 100% of the bill. When it went to Senate Transportation, they added back in the 250 miles, deleted the "commercial" part. I think we got 90% of what we wanted. Let me know if we want to go back in 2008 or 2009 and try and fix these problems. The Governor can make changes to the bill also. So we are not finished yet.

Danny Marshall

</div></div>

Wayne

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An E-mail I sent to Delegate Marshall and his reply.

Delegate Marshall

Dear Sir,

May I just add that I would hope that DMV would correct the flawed registration form in use now. A change in this form would have prevented most of these abusers in the first place. A short list of the requirements to register an antique vehicle should be printed on the registration form, as it is for "logging trucks", as an example, with very precise descriptions of the law.

Thank you for working with us on this situation.

Wayne Burgess

Editor-Northern Neck Region AACA

<span style="font-weight: bold">Response from Delegate Marshall</span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Robert, I think you are 100 % correct. We asked and DMV agreed that the first line of defense should be the people at the counters. DMV said they will train and retrain there people. Danny Marshall

</div></div>

*

*

*

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So now with a restriction on the miles you can be from home, now what happens when you trailler your model t down to Hershey and drive it around there during the show, are you breaking the law?? will you get tickets from Pa. police for invalid plates??

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So now with a restriction on the miles you can be from home, now what happens when you trailler your model t down to Hershey and drive it around there during the show, are you breaking the law?? will you get tickets from Pa. police for invalid plates?? </div></div>

Not sure if VA will set up a reciprocal agreement with other states on this, but it would have to be proven the car was DRIVEN farther to its destination than whatever the limit ends up being vs. trailered to its destination, then unloaded and driven. The statute has always allowed the car to be driven on parades, tours and like old car activities, and I would think Hershey would qualify. The mileage restriction was for sheer pleasure driving- a Sunday tour on the Blue Ridge Parkway for example.

The whole thing was a non-issue that should have been controlled at the DMV counter. If DMV had done its job instead of being so damn lenient about what the antique/YOM plates were issued to, we'd never have had to deal with this.

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Albert, Glenn is right about shows/events being exempt from the restriction. As far as out of state, I'd think you'd never have to worry about this. This new law is for Virginia vehicles in "Virginia"! The other 48 states have enough trouble keeping up with their own laws to have to worry about what Virginia has going on.

Personally, I've gotten away with "murder" in my old cars throughout the years. Things that may have put me in jail with regular personal vehicles. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Old age and a little wisdom does a lot for the heavy use of the "right foot"! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Wayne

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Several years back I took the Toronado to an Olds Club meeting in Greensboro, and stopped in Reidsville NC to feed the beast (110 octane pumps! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />). I went thru a license and DUI check in Reidsville and that young Rockingham County deputy was bound and determined to write me up for no state inspection and failure to display valid license plates (a YOM plate can be displayed in NC but a regular issue plate has to be kept in the car, unlike VA where the YOM is registered to the car and owner). Finally a senior officer told him to drop it since it was a Virginia YOM plate and they didn't know what the VA laws were concerning those, and he didn't want to go thru a lot of BS in court over it.

Wished them luck and went on my way, leaving the smell of burnt high-octane fuel in my wake...

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Reading through this thread, I have to wonder if the problem is only the use of antique

tags on an antique car. Here in New York I've never registered an antique using antique tags.

Just too many potential problems. Both my 1926 and 1932 Packards (and other pre-1930 cars I've owned)

are registered using normal passenger tags. I can use my cars however I want, except for

insurance restrictions. And if I get regular car insurance (liability only) I can drive my

antiques anywhere, any time for any purpose.

Do you have this option in Virginia and other states?

-Scott

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I have 5 cars with NY antique/yom plates. i have never had or even noted any problems with restrictions.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">. Here in New York I've never registered an antique using antique tags.

Just too many potential problems. Both my 1926 and 1932 Packards (and other pre-1930 cars I've owned)

are registered using normal passenger tags. I can use my cars however I want, except for

insurance restrictions. And if I get regular car insurance (liability only) I can drive my

antiques anywhere, any time for any purpose.

Do you have this option in Virginia and other states?

-Scott </div></div>

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Quote: Virginia? Yes you can (buy regular tags), but you'll have to get an annual inspection and be at the mercy of inspectors who might not be familiar with your car.

Same in New York, even if you have antique tags. But what we do is not to take your old car to just

any garage for inspection, but to someone you know or someone who is reasonable or enthusiastic about

old cars. And someone who knows that the law says that whatever worked on the car when new must

be working today, nothing more. (Although most people install turn signals and brake lights for safety.)

Yes, it's a pain, but with many small independant shops you can usually find someone williing to help.

I would certainly rather not deal with the stupid inspection every year, but it sounds better than

what you folks are dealing with in Virginia not being able to drive your car as you want.

As for New York, most people never have any problem with antique tags here. I just

recall that once a car is registered as an antique you can't revert back to regular passenger

tags. And as Virginia as an example, I don't want to be locked into fickle legislative restrictions

that may someday be enforced on antique tags. Besides, they didn't have antique tags in 1926, so

regular passenger tags just look more authentic on my car and are the same cost if not cheaper.

--Scott

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Scott, there's been a misunderstanding about Virginia's Antique Auto law.

Assuming the Governor signs the new law, we will have a 250 mile restriction on "pleasure driving" only. Car shows, tours, other car events or support shows for your club will have "no restrictions" as to mileage.

Our registration fee will increase from a one time $10.00 fee to a one time $50.00 fee.

You also now have to show that you own another regular tagged vehicle to prove that you will not have to use an antique car for your regular means of transportation.

I hope this helps.

Wayne

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  • 6 months later...
  • 2 months later...

ANY law that restricts movement is on its face bull, the fact is if you purcase a plate you have licensed that vehicle and proven you have insurance and paid its taxes therefore contributed under law to the highway and byways you travel on (also through heavy fed/state gas tax). the taxes also contribute to enforcement of traffic laws. even if a vehicle is licensed antique and used also for business its paid its share under law... restrictions should apply to how its used or rolling years modified instead of punishing every one for a few.. as discussed I could not drive my 66 T Bird drop top to the beach. is this fair? This car realy costs me more to own and maintain then a new car per mile driven but its my choice and I do pay taxes

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  • 8 months later...

Two questions about the restriction business in Va:

Since Im pretty new to this antique car business, how do the experts on this forum feel about this kind of usage morally and or legally?

I want to drive my 62 Olds Cutlass (which is registered and insured as Historic here in Md) to Tn:

A) to show my son who has never seen the car.

B) to take it to a friend there who is in the auto business and may be able to help me obtain some scarce parts.

While I FIRST made the car -SAFE- to drive, Im hoping to get this convertible in good enuf shape to go to an Olds meet someday.

I belong to the OCA and a local club Lost in the Fiftys. Only drive the car to club functions and ocassionally to circulate the oil, charge battery, etc. Less than 500mi since Oct 07.

Next question:

Im wondering how persnickety Va state troopers might be when they see me going down I81 and back?? Total distance will be around 950mi.

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Barney,

The Virginia law had nothing to do with out of state vehicles. Obey Virginia's highway laws and you have nothing to worry about. Our troopers have way too much to contend with, than to irritate out of state automobile operators.

Secondly, we had many Virginia Antique car operators that were using them as daily drivers. That has been rectified by a new certification process which has made antique car owners more cognisant of Virginia's Antique Auto laws.

Enjoy your trip to Tennessee. You'll be glad you did! smile.gif

Wayne

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At least it is not as ridiculous as Indiana's Historical Vehicle plate.

First is cost the same as a regular plate about $35 registration plus excise taxes.($15-$2000) based on year and value. Indiana has no personal property tax on vehicles that are licensed.

It must be renewed every year.

It requires a state police inspection on which the officer states it has a drive train similar to original (eliminates street rods) and second the vehicle is be safe has highways speeds (55 mph) and this eliminates anything I consider and antique.

So Indiana you can't license you model T or A as a historical vehicle because is is not safe at 55 mph.

Really what prewar is safe at 55 mph other than a few high dollar Classics.

If you get a regular plate it requires no inspection at all.

I have had State Trooper inspect and pass car that are not capable of 55 mph.

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