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Thread: 20L engine?

  1. #1
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    20L engine?

    Has anyone heard of this engine? It is in a 1926 Davis or Gray (canadian Davis) and is a small six of unknown size.
    Bill
    -------------------------
    1963 Stude Avanti
    1938 Buick Rdmaster sedan
    1931 Ford A cabriolet
    1931 Hupmobile L sedan
    1916 Hupmobile N roadster
    1913 Studebaker SA25 roadster
    1912 Overland 59T touring

  2. #2

    Re: 20L engine?

    It seems to be a well documented engine in the sense that it's listed in numerous parts catalogs...
    My 38 Victor lists it for the 1926-27 Davis models 93 and 94, and under Cont'l lists it with 14 other "L"s that apparently share gaskets, except for two of the "L"s that take different head and manifold gaskets...
    My 36 King Products (engine parts) shows it as 23/4 bore, the 38 Vic says stroke 43/4 (that Victors batch of 15 "L"s shows two bore (23/4 and 27/8, not saying which "L" has which bore, but all 15 "L"s have 43/4 stroke).
    The 36 King says it only shares pistons with two other "L"s and a third "L" for part of its production...the others are shown with 27/8, so those were apparently built after bore change...
    I've been told Cont'l assigned different numbers to basically the same engine, the different numbers meaning different car builders, but that doesn't seem to match the 38 Victors list of 23 makes the 15 "L"s went into...

  3. #3
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    Re: 20L engine?

    Bud- Thank you for the info. My friend who has the Davis monitors this site a bit and I will tell him to make sure and read your post. He has no info on his engine so this is a lot of help. Maybe he wil have followups now that I got a response.
    Thanks,
    Bill
    -------------------------
    1963 Stude Avanti
    1938 Buick Rdmaster sedan
    1931 Ford A cabriolet
    1931 Hupmobile L sedan
    1916 Hupmobile N roadster
    1913 Studebaker SA25 roadster
    1912 Overland 59T touring

  4. #4

    Re: 20L engine?

    Always happy to share whatever information I have.

  5. #5

    Re: 20L engine?

    bud, thanks for some info. would you know what cars used this engine or it's equivelent? no where in the lester steele book is it listed. no where in any davis literature have i found it. I have a model 96 (?) that we believe is a derby car, assembled and manufacturered by davis. any help on this would be great. is there any printed matter i can get my hands on that shows all the different continental engine numbers and letters with specs and where they were used? i am in need of some things and currently have a 6Y, 7R, 7U & 20L. thanks again....jim

  6. #6

    Re: 20L engine?

    Well, what the engine came in kinda depends on who you ask---in my case I use a batch of old replacement engine parts catalogs, and they often don't agree (I have a lot more sympathy now for parts people)...plus many "assembled" vehicle builders bought engines and called them their own.
    On a complete, relatively complete or even half complete listing on Cont'l engines and their specs, I'd like to find one myself. My own list, from my old parts catalogs, turned into a godawful nightmare of confusions, corrections and inconsistencies, presently bogged down and ignored.
    There was a book, something like "Continental And It's Engines", but I've not found one in my occasional lookings and probably couldn't afford it anyhow.
    Will eyeball some period catalogs and will advise what I find on the 20L.

  7. #7

    Re: 20L engine?

    As usual, my old catalogs are inconsistent on the 20L...eyeballed five (1924 piston=no listings, too early??; 29 piston, 30 McC gasket, 30 wrist pins, 33 Perf circle rings)...
    For cars, 3 listed 20L for Davis, altho one listed 9L and 20L (many don't list years, so no way to tell if both engines available or if one engine replaced the other, altho, again, it's usually one replaced the other)...
    The 30 Pin also listed 1926-27 Paige 6-40 with the 20L, the Star 1926-27 "early L" and the 27-28 "late R" with the 20L.
    There were apparently some engine changes in the 20L--the 30 pin catalog, in its engine section, listed 9L, 14L, 18L and 20L "early type" and "late type"; a 36 King Prod (eng parts)catalog only lists those four engines to eng #92325.
    There were listings for nine trucks; will follow. Bud

  8. #8

    Re: 20L engine?

    20L in trucks
    Acme--27-29/28-30+?(catalog years, if shown, often differ;30+ meant listed in 1930 catalog, so may've been used in later years) #16, maybe #17 1ton (one catalog showed 20L and 29L);
    Century-Defiance (usually listed as Defiance)--1928 #FL,F;
    Corbitt--probably 1926-27 #20 1ton; the 1928 seems to've gone to the 31L;
    Fisher--no yrs--Junior Express--9L, 20L, 31L; built 1912-33;
    King-Zeitler--1927 #22A--9L, 20L; 1928 went to 31L;
    Monarch--1928-29 no model#. This's a puzzle: it's listed in the 33 Perf Circ in the truck section, but none of my car and truck references list one of the period (late 20's). There was a Monarch tractor of the right period, but I don't show any Cont'l engine for it, and Cont'l engines in tractors were few and far between until later. If in a tractor, it'd be a lighter model.
    Standard--1927-31 #FJE--NOTE: Standard was also Fisher, apparently producing under both names for awhile.
    Stewart--probably 1926-27 #Buddy 3/4-1ton, shown as 9L, 14L, 20L
    United--probably 1928-32+? #16, C6, 16C 1ton (one catalog showed 20L, 29L).
    While I use these old catalogs for engine ID, it'd not unusual for catalogs to differ widely
    To complicate matters, some states "dated" trucks in the year they were licensed/registered, NOT the year they were produced. So if a truck sat on a dealer lot for a year or more, or if inventory was tied up in litigation or bkcy, actual production date would differ from the state title date in those states.

  9. #9

    Re: 20L engine?

    thanks Bud. thanks for the time. no mention of the derby car that had a 20L in it. i think alot of the assembled cars grabbed what they could get. the 20L was out at the end of the line for many car manufacturers.

  10. #10

    Re: 20L engine?

    No mention of Derby in my stuff or the Std Cat US cars 'cuz the Derby was Canadian, or the Canadian name for the Davis.
    Oddly enough, it is in Auto Qtlys The Am'cn Car Since 1775 ("5000 Marques"), but that's just names and addresses.
    Wiki or somewhere said two Derby's exist; if one matches the Davis that used the 20L, chances are the Derby did, too, at least for that model--one of the Derby thumbnails said it used a Con't 6 cyl, which helps, but not much. With sympathy, bud

  11. #11
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    Re: 20L engine?

    Quote Originally Posted by thedavisman View Post
    bud, thanks for some info. would you know what cars used this engine or it's equivelent? no where in the lester steele book is it listed. no where in any davis literature have i found it. I have a model 96 (?) that we believe is a derby car, assembled and manufacturered by davis. any help on this would be great. is there any printed matter i can get my hands on that shows all the different continental engine numbers and letters with specs and where they were used? i am in need of some things and currently have a 6Y, 7R, 7U & 20L. thanks again....jim
    hi, i was curious what you might have reference cont red seal 7R
    THANKS,

    Keith123451@live.com

  12. #12
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    Re: 20L engine?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	dykes.jpg 
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ID:	222112kmstrade, here is a page out of the Dyke's Auto Encyclopedia u may find interesting...

  13. #13
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    Re: 20L engine?

    Hi Just happened to go down the manufacturers list and saw the Continental thread.
    Hudson advertised the Atlas and Buda motors for Model 20 as well and then for the Model 33 but I believe Continental agreed to make a factory as the orders were coming in fast and furious. Howard Coffin was likely working on his own 6 cylinder which came out in '16 or so.

    Would like any printed material anyone is willing to share. I have been told that there were two motors available for the Model 33 with same c.i. but larger crank and maybe different cam??????

    Fred

  14. #14

    Re: 20L engine?

    Fred: Interesting...
    I don't follow cars much anymore, but Hudson's always been kind of a favorite, having owned some in my misspent youth-jalopy days....
    Have two Hudson books but could only fine Conde's, in which he mentions the Atlas, Buda and Cont engines but gives no engine ID designations...
    The few old replacement parts catalogs I have listing Hudson give a few later Cont ID's but nothing for the 33, and those that list the 33 just list one engine (1917 Burd rings, 24 Houpert piston, 30 Mann Pins).
    Std Cat doesn't mention any engine changes, but if strictly internal probably wouldn't unless producing HP etc differences.
    I did note that the 24 piston catalog lists the pin as Oscillating (on an index of Oscillating, Stationary or Full Floating) while the 30 catalog lists it as what I assume is floating (on an index of A, F and FF--A I don't know, I assume F=floating and FF=full floating). The only other spec in both catalogs is pin diam=.968 in the 30, .9687 in the 24.
    If the 33 engine was produced solely for Hudson, Cont may not've given it a separate designation; it could be the same for the earltier Atlas and Budas

  15. #15
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    Re: 20L engine?

    Hi Bud
    Interesting that Continental was major manufactuer of motor and transmission but almost no data remains, Dodge Bros were doing the same thing but ended up in dispute with Ford and started making their owncars.

    Great history.

    I have inspected and tightened one rod bearing so it is the only dimension I know, The crank come out the end so is major to rebuild if you want to dismante car or at least remove engine.

    Thanks for the help
    ------- the journey continues!!
    Fred

  16. #16

    Re: 20L engine?

    Found my other Hudson book (Don Butler's) which says even less about engines...it does have a pic of the 1910 4 cyl (drivers side) at sight of which "Buda" popped into my mind, but, on the other hand, I wouldn't know an Atlas if it fell on my foot, and basically the same with Cont...nor do either say whether Hudson bought off-the-shelf Atlas, Buda and Cont models or had the companies build an engine to Hudson's specs (the most likely as none of my replacement parts catalogs show several engines for any early Hudson)...
    He states the 33 had a "new" engine, and gives some specs (geez, two mains!) but nary a word about manufacturer...
    If you're really looking for old literature, you should start a new post in the H-E-T forum and/or General forum, as very few will see your request buried here at the end of this 20L thread. Good luck.

  17. #17
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    Re: 20L engine?

    Hi Bud
    The only Buda pic is in the Dyck's 1917 encyclopedia pg.71 that I found, similar look but the mag and water pump are in same line as crank where the Continental has a cross shaft of front of crank run by gear. Note the fan where Cont. has integral flywheel /fan.
    Have no idea what a Atlas would look like except there are pics of the factory.
    Will plug ahead but good suggestion about a new thread. Am just getting used to having pic go thru.
    Hope to get the motor reassembled and then send some more pics.
    F

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